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Forums - Sales - Is Microsoft the only one of the big 3 who knows how to run a video game business at this point?

Seece on 28 July 2011
RolStoppable said:
Seece said:

MS is noutorious for low FYQ4 results though, happened last year and this year again even with profits in every other Q, I think maybe they push back losses for the year into this Q or something, because it rarely adds up.

...and Nintendo is notorious for pushing the losses in their first quarter. They posted a loss too one year ago.

Which basically means that it's silly to only look at one single quarter and then compare the three companies. Much better to look at full fiscal years.

Well I agree, and I don't really agree with the OP anyway, not with Nintendo's track record and how much they made last year. But we do have their updated FY forecast to go on, which is $250M profit ...

That could drop and they're in danger of having the first FY loss in company history?



 

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ethomaz on 28 July 2011
fallen said:

With latest quarterly results in and Sony and now Nintendo bleeding money, it becomes that Microsoft is currently the only profitable player in videogames. Sure some will be quick to point to the past but I'm talking about for the recent times.

Moreso, Sony has a history of years of bleeding money so nothing new for them, but to me both the Wii U and 3DS are bad hardware and they are Nintendo's future, so I think Nintendo has a long stretch of struggles ahead of them as well.

I can be wrong but talking just about the last quarter... Sony profited $353 million and the PlayStation division profited $21 million.



Jereel Hunter on 28 July 2011
ethomaz said:
fallen said:

With latest quarterly results in and Sony and now Nintendo bleeding money, it becomes that Microsoft is currently the only profitable player in videogames. Sure some will be quick to point to the past but I'm talking about for the recent times.

Moreso, Sony has a history of years of bleeding money so nothing new for them, but to me both the Wii U and 3DS are bad hardware and they are Nintendo's future, so I think Nintendo has a long stretch of struggles ahead of them as well.

I can be wrong but talking just about the last quarter... Sony profited $353 million and the PlayStation division profited $21 million.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/87382/sony-ships-18m-ps3s-loses-191m-in-the-june-2011-quarter/

Were you referring to the quarter prior to this one?



d21lewis on 28 July 2011

I'm on the "frecently" bandwagon, too!!



ethomaz on 28 July 2011
Jereel Hunter said:
ethomaz said:
fallen said:

With latest quarterly results in and Sony and now Nintendo bleeding money, it becomes that Microsoft is currently the only profitable player in videogames. Sure some will be quick to point to the past but I'm talking about for the recent times.

Moreso, Sony has a history of years of bleeding money so nothing new for them, but to me both the Wii U and 3DS are bad hardware and they are Nintendo's future, so I think Nintendo has a long stretch of struggles ahead of them as well.

I can be wrong but talking just about the last quarter... Sony profited $353 million and the PlayStation division profited $21 million.

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/87382/sony-ships-18m-ps3s-loses-191m-in-the-june-2011-quarter/

Were you referring to the quarter prior to this one?

I saw just the Operation Incoming... not the Net Incoming... but what I have to use?



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zarx on 28 July 2011
Seece said:
zarx said:
Seece said:
zarx said:

New platforms are expensive to introduce and MS are the only ones currently not introducing one. Also the Xbox brand has been bleeding hundreds of millions for years and cost billions to establish and will need another 15 years of profit to make the money back. 

Being the only one bassed in the USA where they make they majority of thier sales also helps with the weak US dollar which hurts Sony and Nintendo.


Havn't been doing your homework. X360 is practically break even for the division and if profits remain the same, the entire division will break even (yes even that 4.2 Bill Original Xbox diaster) will be cleared within 3 years.


admitadly my info is pretty old...

Wasn't the bill for the OG Xbox ~$6 billion with ~$4 billion in losses the devision first turned an operating profit (as in actually made more than they spent or invested not just more than the costs that year) in 07 with $89 million in operating profit since then they have made more each year but I don't think they have made back the billions they lost. But if you can provide the data showing that they have made a net profit over the life of the Xbox brand I would love to see it.

They lost $4.2B on original Xbox, then 06/07 fiscal years which was 360 debut and RROD fiasco (with $1b included) they lost $3.2B, in 08,09,10 and 11 they've profited every year to the tune of $2.7B, but most notably $1.3B this last year alone. -$4.7B is the overall loss of the division now with $500 mill to go before breaking even since the 360 debuted.


But with all of this we have to remember other products that had an impact in the division like the failure of the Kin and Windows phone ect.

Going forward MS have a solid income from Live, and I image Kinect is a great deal of that profit this last year. So yeah, they should be break even in less than 1 years lol, unless they go for a PS3 style system next gen and lose buckets, but MS are obviously savvy in the industry these days .. I don't think we'll ever see them go down that road again.

could you provide a source for that?  By my sources in fiscal 2010 theymade $618 million in net profit from the whole devision, and in fiscal 2009 only $169 million and $426 in 08 which makes $2.5b where is the other $200 million?  so that is another $700 million profit more they need to make before the 360 breaks even and then they have to work on the $4.2b in OG Xbox losses and considering in a couple years they will likely slide back into the red when they launch their next console it's going to take them quite a while to turn a profit on the brand. The 15 years is probably hyperbole I admit...



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Seece on 28 July 2011
zarx said:
Seece said:
zarx said:
Seece said:
zarx said:

New platforms are expensive to introduce and MS are the only ones currently not introducing one. Also the Xbox brand has been bleeding hundreds of millions for years and cost billions to establish and will need another 15 years of profit to make the money back. 

Being the only one bassed in the USA where they make they majority of thier sales also helps with the weak US dollar which hurts Sony and Nintendo.


Havn't been doing your homework. X360 is practically break even for the division and if profits remain the same, the entire division will break even (yes even that 4.2 Bill Original Xbox diaster) will be cleared within 3 years.


admitadly my info is pretty old...

Wasn't the bill for the OG Xbox ~$6 billion with ~$4 billion in losses the devision first turned an operating profit (as in actually made more than they spent or invested not just more than the costs that year) in 07 with $89 million in operating profit since then they have made more each year but I don't think they have made back the billions they lost. But if you can provide the data showing that they have made a net profit over the life of the Xbox brand I would love to see it.

They lost $4.2B on original Xbox, then 06/07 fiscal years which was 360 debut and RROD fiasco (with $1b included) they lost $3.2B, in 08,09,10 and 11 they've profited every year to the tune of $2.7B, but most notably $1.3B this last year alone. -$4.7B is the overall loss of the division now with $500 mill to go before breaking even since the 360 debuted.


But with all of this we have to remember other products that had an impact in the division like the failure of the Kin and Windows phone ect.

Going forward MS have a solid income from Live, and I image Kinect is a great deal of that profit this last year. So yeah, they should be break even in less than 1 years lol, unless they go for a PS3 style system next gen and lose buckets, but MS are obviously savvy in the industry these days .. I don't think we'll ever see them go down that road again.

could you provide a source for that?  By my sources in fiscal 2010 theymade $618 million in net profit from the whole devision, and in fiscal 2009 only $169 million and $426 in 08 which makes $2.5b where is the other $200 million?  so that is another $700 million profit more they need to make before the 360 breaks even and then they have to work on the $4.2b in OG Xbox losses and considering in a couple years they will likely slide back into the red when they launch their next console it's going to take them quite a while to turn a profit on the brand. The 15 years is probably hyperbole I admit...

No ourse, I inputted the data years ago and have tracked it from MS ever since, so their website I suppose, I know some guy on GAF is floating around incorrect numbers though.



 

ethomaz on 28 July 2011
kowenicki said:

net income.

What's the difference? Could you please tell me?

Edit - I guess that's offtopic.



Seece on 28 July 2011
RolStoppable said:
Seece said:

Well I agree, and I don't really agree with the OP anyway, not with Nintendo's track record and how much they made last year. But we do have their updated FY forecast to go on, which is $250M profit ...

That could drop and they're in danger of having the first FY loss in company history?

Yeah, their updated forecast is pretty shocking, because it's such a significant adjustment. There's definitely a possibility that they will end this fiscal year with a loss, but things would need to go really bad for that happen. The majority of the adjustment is due to the unforeseen drastic 3DS price cut, unlikely that something of the same magnitude happens again. Realistically, I think they are least going to post a profit of $100 million which is still pretty bad considering Nintendo's history.

Yeah, the 3DS cut was most certainly not in their foreseeable future when they launched in the west, I don't get the drastic cut tbh, I think $199, with a strong SW line up at xmas would have been better for the company ... they don't have to have huge sales from the get go, it's obviously very very early days for the 3DS.

But if they keep cutting DS and Wii forecast then yeah they can drop further, and despite the cut, 3DS still might not live up to their 16 mill forecast, I mean they have 15.3M left to go in 3 Q's ... and they still have a lot of stock out there (1 mill)



 

zarx on 28 July 2011
Seece said:
zarx said:
Seece said:
zarx said:
Seece said:
zarx said:

New platforms are expensive to introduce and MS are the only ones currently not introducing one. Also the Xbox brand has been bleeding hundreds of millions for years and cost billions to establish and will need another 15 years of profit to make the money back. 

Being the only one bassed in the USA where they make they majority of thier sales also helps with the weak US dollar which hurts Sony and Nintendo.


Havn't been doing your homework. X360 is practically break even for the division and if profits remain the same, the entire division will break even (yes even that 4.2 Bill Original Xbox diaster) will be cleared within 3 years.


admitadly my info is pretty old...

Wasn't the bill for the OG Xbox ~$6 billion with ~$4 billion in losses the devision first turned an operating profit (as in actually made more than they spent or invested not just more than the costs that year) in 07 with $89 million in operating profit since then they have made more each year but I don't think they have made back the billions they lost. But if you can provide the data showing that they have made a net profit over the life of the Xbox brand I would love to see it.

They lost $4.2B on original Xbox, then 06/07 fiscal years which was 360 debut and RROD fiasco (with $1b included) they lost $3.2B, in 08,09,10 and 11 they've profited every year to the tune of $2.7B, but most notably $1.3B this last year alone. -$4.7B is the overall loss of the division now with $500 mill to go before breaking even since the 360 debuted.


But with all of this we have to remember other products that had an impact in the division like the failure of the Kin and Windows phone ect.

Going forward MS have a solid income from Live, and I image Kinect is a great deal of that profit this last year. So yeah, they should be break even in less than 1 years lol, unless they go for a PS3 style system next gen and lose buckets, but MS are obviously savvy in the industry these days .. I don't think we'll ever see them go down that road again.

could you provide a source for that?  By my sources in fiscal 2010 theymade $618 million in net profit from the whole devision, and in fiscal 2009 only $169 million and $426 in 08 which makes $2.5b where is the other $200 million?  so that is another $700 million profit more they need to make before the 360 breaks even and then they have to work on the $4.2b in OG Xbox losses and considering in a couple years they will likely slide back into the red when they launch their next console it's going to take them quite a while to turn a profit on the brand. The 15 years is probably hyperbole I admit...

No ourse, I inputted the data years ago and have tracked it from MS ever since, so their website I suppose, I know some guy on GAF is floating around incorrect numbers though.

But I just looked up the last 4 years of financial reports from MS and the numbers add up to 2.5b, you may want to recheck your numbers.



@TheVoxelman on twitter

Check out my hype threads: Cyberpunk, and The Witcher 3!