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Forums - Politics Discussion - Can a movement similar to fascism emerge in the US?

 

Can a movement similar to fascism emerge in the US?

Yes 67 56.78%
 
No 21 17.80%
 
Not a "movement sim... 27 22.88%
 
Total:115
sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:
sapphi_snake said:
osamanobama said:
Obama has been as close to Facism as we've come in a long time.
and with indoctrination centers like Universities and "news" stations like MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN. they try to block out all dissent and vilify all opposition wit out any facts. they are in bed with the government and are pretty much an arm of the democratic party.

but no we wont be Fascists because luckily we have had citizen revolts like the tea party pushing for smaller less totalitarian goverment. and we have news stations that actually show both sides of isssues like FOX news instead of being spoon fed what this administration tells them, they actually are fair in providing both sides

And you want to be taken seriously (regarding the part in italics)? As for the underlined, anti-intelectualism is one of the first symptoms of an iminent dictatorship.

Calling for academics in colleges and universities to stop indoctrinating their students into a particular political ideology is not "anti-intellectualism" or "anti-academic"

It seems to me like it's just propaganda meant to create a negative view of academia, and ultimately promote anti-intelectualism. The same accusations were brought against intellectuals in all countries that eventually became dictatorships (they're "indoctrinating" students), including my own. Please tell me what exactly is this political ideology in which students are being indoctrinated in.

Actually, there is significant bias in academia that is widely accepted even within academia; they typicall dismiss it as "Competent conservatives choose the private sector" and completely negate the fact that in the highly subjective liberal arts fields you have to accept and promote the professors worldview to get good grades. There is a large number of conservative academics who claim that they have to stay "in the closet" about their political views for fear of reprecussions.

Years ago I was in university and taking a sociology course and I had a professor who worked in both Women's Studies and Sociology. One of my friends was at the top of the class until our mid-term paper where he foolishly accepted my dare to choose the topic about pay-equity and argue that the disparity in pay between women and men was mostly caused by the choices women and men make. His paper was far better written than mine, his argument was better researched and supported and yet I received a B+ while he received an F. He protested with the dean who remarked his paper and gave him an A. Every paper he handed in after that also received a D or an F, and he repeatedly visited the dean to get his paper remarked where he would get an A.

There are countless simple minded academics who will punish students that don't puppet their worldview, and (quite regularly) their worldview is a socialist/communist worldview.



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HappySqurriel said:
sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:
sapphi_snake said:
osamanobama said:
Obama has been as close to Facism as we've come in a long time.
and with indoctrination centers like Universities and "news" stations like MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN. they try to block out all dissent and vilify all opposition wit out any facts. they are in bed with the government and are pretty much an arm of the democratic party.

but no we wont be Fascists because luckily we have had citizen revolts like the tea party pushing for smaller less totalitarian goverment. and we have news stations that actually show both sides of isssues like FOX news instead of being spoon fed what this administration tells them, they actually are fair in providing both sides

And you want to be taken seriously (regarding the part in italics)? As for the underlined, anti-intelectualism is one of the first symptoms of an iminent dictatorship.

Calling for academics in colleges and universities to stop indoctrinating their students into a particular political ideology is not "anti-intellectualism" or "anti-academic"

It seems to me like it's just propaganda meant to create a negative view of academia, and ultimately promote anti-intelectualism. The same accusations were brought against intellectuals in all countries that eventually became dictatorships (they're "indoctrinating" students), including my own. Please tell me what exactly is this political ideology in which students are being indoctrinated in.

Actually, there is significant bias in academia that is widely accepted even within academia; they typicall dismiss it as "Competent conservatives choose the private sector" and completely negate the fact that in the highly subjective liberal arts fields you have to accept and promote the professors worldview to get good grades. There is a large number of conservative academics who claim that they have to stay "in the closet" about their political views for fear of reprecussions.

Years ago I was in university and taking a sociology course and I had a professor who worked in both Women's Studies and Sociology. One of my friends was at the top of the class until our mid-term paper where he foolishly accepted my dare to choose the topic about pay-equity and argue that the disparity in pay between women and men was mostly caused by the choices women and men make. His paper was far better written than mine, his argument was better researched and supported and yet I received a B+ while he received an F. He protested with the dean who remarked his paper and gave him an A. Every paper he handed in after that also received a D or an F, and he repeatedly visited the dean to get his paper remarked where he would get an A.

There are countless simple minded academics who will punish students that don't puppet their worldview, and (quite regularly) their worldview is a socialist/communist worldview.

To me (at least in southern california) its not just on a college level that professors have that problem, but all through school. It always felt like teachers really push Domcrats views and frown upon republicans views. I never understood it as I was going through the system, but now that I look back and put things in perspective with the teachers unions I can see it more clearly. It did show up more in college though.



sapphi_snake said:
osamanobama said:
Obama has been as close to Facism as we've come in a long time.
and with indoctrination centers like Universities and "news" stations like MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN. they try to block out all dissent and vilify all opposition wit out any facts. they are in bed with the government and are pretty much an arm of the democratic party.

but no we wont be Fascists because luckily we have had citizen revolts like the tea party pushing for smaller less totalitarian goverment. and we have news stations that actually show both sides of isssues like FOX news instead of being spoon fed what this administration tells them, they actually are fair in providing both sides

And you want to be taken seriously (regarding the part in italics)? As for the underlined, anti-intelectualism is one of the first symptoms of an iminent dictatorship.

i couldnt be more serious.

and yes universities do indoctrinate. 97% of proffessors are liberals. they push their ideology on student, and punish those with differeing views (you might not experience this because youre not in America). they have no fear of repercusions because of tenure.  and colleges get favorable treatment by our government becasue they push out (liberal) voters and politicians. they get a constant base, and in turn "help" te universities. incompetent proffessors dont get fired and get away with everythiing.

as for the other thing, i suggest you watch our news. its apparrent that you do not

aslo for you other posts. modern day conservates (not establishment conservatives, im talking new tea party ones) stand for individual freedom, thats why liberatarians have teamed up with them.

since about a hundred years ago, starting back with woodrow wilson (some could argue TR) the liberal idealogy got hijacked by the progressive. they stand for inti democracy (including censor ship of other ideas, ex. your only a bigot or close minded if you disagree with them), anti-freedom, pro-totalitarian governement.

as for the topic at hand, i suggest you read liberal fascism, by Jonah Goldberg



sapphi_snake said:
HappySqurriel said:
sapphi_snake said:
osamanobama said:
Obama has been as close to Facism as we've come in a long time.
and with indoctrination centers like Universities and "news" stations like MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, and CNN. they try to block out all dissent and vilify all opposition wit out any facts. they are in bed with the government and are pretty much an arm of the democratic party.

but no we wont be Fascists because luckily we have had citizen revolts like the tea party pushing for smaller less totalitarian goverment. and we have news stations that actually show both sides of isssues like FOX news instead of being spoon fed what this administration tells them, they actually are fair in providing both sides

And you want to be taken seriously (regarding the part in italics)? As for the underlined, anti-intelectualism is one of the first symptoms of an iminent dictatorship.

Calling for academics in colleges and universities to stop indoctrinating their students into a particular political ideology is not "anti-intellectualism" or "anti-academic"

It seems to me like it's just propaganda meant to create a negative view of academia, and ultimately promote anti-intelectualism. The same accusations were brought against intellectuals in all countries that eventually became dictatorships (they're "indoctrinating" students), including my own. Please tell me what exactly is this political ideology in which students are being indoctrinated in.


Political bias in Universities (at least US universties) is widely accepted actually.  It's something that was actually directly taught in my sociology of buisness class... by a leftwing guy actually.

In general

Right Wing biased fields tend to be Math, Economics and Buisness.

Left Wing biased fields tend to be... everything else.

Most of the time you don't write papers based on the facts, but based on your professors opinions.

I made it a habit of acing all my classes from highschool on just based on analyzing my teacher and writing papers that fit perfectly with their views.

Here is a quick link about one study.  http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/node/39861

 

Economics interestingly leftwing here... though it may have to do with the selection of the schools, as there are some schools that cater exclusivly to keynsian ideas still.



badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
sethnintendo said:

I'm just wondering what tax hikes you are talking about? 

The tax hikes the Democrats want as a part of the debt ceiling deal, of course. I'm not sure why you're confused about that. Brooks says Republicans are being foolish and fanatical not to take the Democrats' offer, but this is an old game. Until Democrats offer specific cuts, promising $3 or 4 trillion (or even $40 trillion) in theoretical cuts down the line means nothing.

I thought they had at least some specific cuts up there, one i recall being closing down a loophole for double coverage under Medicare's Prescription Drug program

They may have had some, but they haven't come out with anything resembling a plan. And as always, it's hard to take anything they say seriously when it's the same old "We can identify billions in Medicare fraud and waste!" song and dance. Oh really? Well, if you can do that, then you should have fixed that shit a long time ago, you driveling dickbags. The fact that they tolerate such a thing until they can use it as a bargaining chip may be the single most maddening thing about this entire debate.

I would think that they have to say they're going to cut waste (even if they were seriously planning on cutting things that weren't waste), otherwise the AARP would be all over their ass quicker than a jackrabbit on a date

I agree that the comment is a snow job, but its to deceive entitlement-hardliners as much as it is to deceive the opposition

While we're in here, i'm going to disagree that Liberal is a set term, given that Liberal used to mean what is called today Libertarianism, and in the world today is still relativistic (like how European Center-Right parties are oriented at about the same place as the US Democrats are). The two stances are purely situational, like how, in the Soviet Union in the late '80s, there were "liberals" who valued freedom of worship and free-market economics, set against the conservative Stalinists, ultra-hard leftists of a Pol-Pot-ish variety

The only common strain in Liberalism is that it seeks either freedom or equality, it's just that those terms are equally relative, so modern American liberalism seeks a regulated market to promote economic equality and seeks social freedoms, as opposed to classical Liberals of other orientations

And also, lol at those who think that the vast majority of teachers/professors are liberal. I've had a healthy mix at college, and if anything my public school teachers back home were right-leaning (except when it came to organized labor). My Western Civilization professor actually taught the whole thing from an anti-Marxist perspective, my Bible Law professor, while having a very progressive view on Bible Law, also had bad things to say about Bill Clinton, my favorite political science professor is a raging Reaganite, my Philosophy 101 professor had a pro-war interpretation of Christianity, my Microeconomics professor was a social conservative trained in the seminary (though seemed to have more neutral leanings on economics itself), my Macro professor loved supply-side economics, and the guy who will be teaching me "International Modern Socialism" in the fall is fairly well known for his severe lack of political correctness, and my Stats professor seems to have a poor view of taxation

I pay attention to this sort of thing, and while the liberals have outnumbered the conservatives, it isn't by as much as you think, and certainly not a ridiculous 97% figure.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:
badgenome said:
sethnintendo said:

I'm just wondering what tax hikes you are talking about? 

The tax hikes the Democrats want as a part of the debt ceiling deal, of course. I'm not sure why you're confused about that. Brooks says Republicans are being foolish and fanatical not to take the Democrats' offer, but this is an old game. Until Democrats offer specific cuts, promising $3 or 4 trillion (or even $40 trillion) in theoretical cuts down the line means nothing.

I thought they had at least some specific cuts up there, one i recall being closing down a loophole for double coverage under Medicare's Prescription Drug program

They may have had some, but they haven't come out with anything resembling a plan. And as always, it's hard to take anything they say seriously when it's the same old "We can identify billions in Medicare fraud and waste!" song and dance. Oh really? Well, if you can do that, then you should have fixed that shit a long time ago, you driveling dickbags. The fact that they tolerate such a thing until they can use it as a bargaining chip may be the single most maddening thing about this entire debate.

I would think that they have to say they're going to cut waste (even if they were seriously planning on cutting things that weren't waste), otherwise the AARP would be all over their ass quicker than a jackrabbit on a date

I agree that the comment is a snow job, but its to deceive entitlement-hardliners as much as it is to deceive the opposition

While we're in here, i'm going to disagree that Liberal is a set term, given that Liberal used to mean what is called today Libertarianism, and in the world today is still relativistic (like how European Center-Right parties are oriented at about the same place as the US Democrats are). The two stances are purely situational, like how, in the Soviet Union in the late '80s, there were "liberals" who valued freedom of worship and free-market economics, set against the conservative Stalinists, ultra-hard leftists of a Pol-Pot-ish variety

The only common strain in Liberalism is that it seeks either freedom or equality, it's just that those terms are equally relative, so modern American liberalism seeks a regulated market to promote economic equality and seeks social freedoms, as opposed to classical Liberals of other orientations

And also, lol at those who think that the vast majority of teachers/professors are liberal. I've had a healthy mix at college, and if anything my public school teachers back home were right-leaning (except when it came to organized labor). My Western Civilization professor actually taught the whole thing from an anti-Marxist perspective, my Bible Law professor, while having a very progressive view on Bible Law, also had bad things to say about Bill Clinton, my favorite political science professor is a raging Reaganite, my Philosophy 101 professor had a pro-war interpretation of Christianity, my Microeconomics professor was a social conservative trained in the seminary (though seemed to have more neutral leanings on economics itself), my Macro professor loved supply-side economics, and the guy who will be teaching me "International Modern Socialism" in the fall is fairly well known for his severe lack of political correctness, and my Stats professor seems to have a poor view of taxation

I pay attention to this sort of thing, and while the liberals have outnumbered the conservatives, it isn't by as much as you think, and certainly not a ridiculous 97% figure.

97% no... but in self reporting studies. 70% is about the spot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8427-2005Mar28.html

Aside from which, you've mostly mentioned economics teachers, which yeah, tend to skew republican, because well economic evidence skews republican... a bible law proffessor...

which, since it has Bible in it i'm going to assume it has to do with religion...

You are just taking a lot of courses in the few disciplines that are supposed to be rightword leaning.

Generally all the research points to fairly heavy leftwing political bias.

Not sure it's actually an issue or not... but it's definitly there.

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/24/voting-with-their-wallets-college-profs-overwhelmingly-support-democrats/



Mr Khan said:

While we're in here, i'm going to disagree that Liberal is a set term, given that Liberal used to mean what is called today Libertarianism, and in the world today is still relativistic (like how European Center-Right parties are oriented at about the same place as the US Democrats are). The two stances are purely situational, like how, in the Soviet Union in the late '80s, there were "liberals" who valued freedom of worship and free-market economics, set against the conservative Stalinists, ultra-hard leftists of a Pol-Pot-ish variety

The only common strain in Liberalism is that it seeks either freedom or equality, it's just that those terms are equally relative, so modern American liberalism seeks a regulated market to promote economic equality and seeks social freedoms, as opposed to classical Liberals of other orientations

Naturally, liberals can and will disagree on the finer points, but the fact that human liberty is the ultimate goal for liberals everywhere stands in pretty stark contrast to conservatism, which is situational by definition.

Although the American left harbors a few odd fetishes here and there (a tendency to carry a torch for drug legalization or recognition of same sex marriages, for instance), its real hallmark has become its crushing paternalism. It strikes me as patently absurd to call any group so dedicated to the creation of a fiscally impossible Hobbesian horror, liberal. I could perhaps chalk it up to a simple disagreement over how to get from here to there, except the left seems to come down on the wrong side of every issue of practical importance - from speech codes to food bans to cackhanded government meddling in the economy on a massive scale - with such regularity that there can be no doubt that they are not one iota more liberal than the right. If anything, they strike me as a good deal more illiberal.



badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:

While we're in here, i'm going to disagree that Liberal is a set term, given that Liberal used to mean what is called today Libertarianism, and in the world today is still relativistic (like how European Center-Right parties are oriented at about the same place as the US Democrats are). The two stances are purely situational, like how, in the Soviet Union in the late '80s, there were "liberals" who valued freedom of worship and free-market economics, set against the conservative Stalinists, ultra-hard leftists of a Pol-Pot-ish variety

The only common strain in Liberalism is that it seeks either freedom or equality, it's just that those terms are equally relative, so modern American liberalism seeks a regulated market to promote economic equality and seeks social freedoms, as opposed to classical Liberals of other orientations

Naturally, liberals can and will disagree on the finer points, but the fact that human liberty is the ultimate goal for liberals everywhere stands in pretty stark contrast to conservatism, which is situational by definition.

Although the American left harbors a few odd fetishes here and there (a tendency to carry a torch for drug legalization or recognition of same sex marriages, for instance), its real hallmark has become its crushing paternalism. It strikes me as patently absurd to call any group so dedicated to the creation of a fiscally impossible Hobbesian horror, liberal. I could perhaps chalk it up to a simple disagreement over how to get from here to there, except the left seems to come down on the wrong side of every issue of practical importance - from speech codes to food bans to cackhanded government meddling in the economy on a massive scale - with such regularity that there can be no doubt that they are not one iota more liberal than the right. If anything, they strike me as a good deal more illiberal.

We could call that "Progressive," then, and it may very well be that that's what the American left is morphing into, at least once we sort out these niggling issues with gay rights, since the objectives of the new left do seem to resemble what we openly called the Progressive movement exactly 100 years ago, and that movement too had some darker sides to it (namely Eugenics), and we can largely draw similarities

Of course where the disagreements lie is whether or not these changes truly entail "Progress," or what we're trying to progress towards, but that might be a better term for it in either event, as i agree the movement has gotten paternalistic, but i disagree that that is inherently a bad thing on its face, just that more effective methods of social engineering need to be found, to get people to eat right, for instance, as that seems to be one point about which it is hard to disagree that leaving things to themselves hasn't really worked out that well



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Also, i'd note that a large number of universities are state schools....

and of the political parties, one is more likely to give you a raise and more funding...

and one is more likely to cut your funding and put your job at risk....

So that might effect party representation and views in of itself.

It's like social security!

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=166966&title=doomsday-time



Kasz216 said:
Also, i'd note that a large number of universities are state schools....

and of the political parties, one is more likely to give you a raise and more funding...

and one is more likely to cut your funding and put your job at risk....

So that might effect party representation and views in of itself.

It's like social security!

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=166966&title=doomsday-time

That is actually a valid assertion, given that Pitt got hit pretty hard when old Tom "Let's rape the piss out of mother earth for natural gas" Corbett came in.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.