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Forums - Politics Discussion - Americans would save 93 million per year if salaries of congress were eliminated. (last time)

Vetteman94 said:
thranx said:
Vetteman94 said:
Police Officers and Firefighters are also technically public servants should they not be paid as well?

Cutting their salaries wouldn't do much for our economy. Cutting little things like this and welfare programs that are tiny percentages in our budget will not fix the problem.


It will if we cut enough "little" things. They all add up to a lot. We have to start somewhere, and while I do not think they should work for free, I do feel they get paid way to much for their work and get far too many perks. This also varies from state to state though doesn't it? I know in CA the politicians get way too much money and way too many perks. Its crazy. Its no wonder they work for themselves and not for their communities they have to much invested in their personal gain.

If you cut enough of the little things,  the only thing you will do is hurt the poor people who need these programs to get by on a daily basis.  And we will still not solve the problem.  The main thing we need to do is cut military spending,  and more the size of it than anything,  I dont want them to stop advancing ourmilitary technologies.  We just dont need a military that isn't as bloated as we have.

Social Security, Medicare, and Military are pretty much the 3 biggest chunks of the USA budget.  Just addressing the military won't be enough.  We have to look at ways to make the healthcare more affordable, etc...  Hospitals, doctors, drug companies, HMOs... Tons of corruption and over billing/charging going on in pretty much every aspect of the healthcare industry in the USA.



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sethnintendo said:
Vetteman94 said:
thranx said:
Vetteman94 said:
Police Officers and Firefighters are also technically public servants should they not be paid as well?

Cutting their salaries wouldn't do much for our economy. Cutting little things like this and welfare programs that are tiny percentages in our budget will not fix the problem.


It will if we cut enough "little" things. They all add up to a lot. We have to start somewhere, and while I do not think they should work for free, I do feel they get paid way to much for their work and get far too many perks. This also varies from state to state though doesn't it? I know in CA the politicians get way too much money and way too many perks. Its crazy. Its no wonder they work for themselves and not for their communities they have to much invested in their personal gain.

If you cut enough of the little things,  the only thing you will do is hurt the poor people who need these programs to get by on a daily basis.  And we will still not solve the problem.  The main thing we need to do is cut military spending,  and more the size of it than anything,  I dont want them to stop advancing ourmilitary technologies.  We just dont need a military that isn't as bloated as we have.

Social Security, Medicare, and Military are pretty much the 3 biggest chunks of the USA budget.  Just addressing the military won't be enough.  We have to look at ways to make the healthcare more affordable, etc...  Hospitals, doctors, drug companies, HMOs... Tons of corruption and over billing/charging going on in pretty much every aspect of the healthcare industry in the USA.

The whole health care system is one of the few things I envy the people in alot of European countries with national Health Care systems.  I just hope that one day we can have it here.  



Vetteman94 said:
sethnintendo said:
Vetteman94 said:
thranx said:
Vetteman94 said:
Police Officers and Firefighters are also technically public servants should they not be paid as well?

Cutting their salaries wouldn't do much for our economy. Cutting little things like this and welfare programs that are tiny percentages in our budget will not fix the problem.


It will if we cut enough "little" things. They all add up to a lot. We have to start somewhere, and while I do not think they should work for free, I do feel they get paid way to much for their work and get far too many perks. This also varies from state to state though doesn't it? I know in CA the politicians get way too much money and way too many perks. Its crazy. Its no wonder they work for themselves and not for their communities they have to much invested in their personal gain.

If you cut enough of the little things,  the only thing you will do is hurt the poor people who need these programs to get by on a daily basis.  And we will still not solve the problem.  The main thing we need to do is cut military spending,  and more the size of it than anything,  I dont want them to stop advancing ourmilitary technologies.  We just dont need a military that isn't as bloated as we have.

Social Security, Medicare, and Military are pretty much the 3 biggest chunks of the USA budget.  Just addressing the military won't be enough.  We have to look at ways to make the healthcare more affordable, etc...  Hospitals, doctors, drug companies, HMOs... Tons of corruption and over billing/charging going on in pretty much every aspect of the healthcare industry in the USA.

The whole health care system is one of the few things I envy the people in alot of European countries with national Health Care systems.  I just hope that one day we can have it here.  

I personally experienced the joke that is called health care system in USA.  About 2 years ago I didn't have health insurance at the time (still don't, sorry you can kill me but no money for it or dental) and I happened to develop appendicitis (which is pretty rare for someone that is 27 years old at the time).  Anyways, I pretty much diagnosed myself after suffering from it for about  3 days.  I went to the emergency room and told them I have appendicitis.  They then did some touching on abdomen (to see where the pain was), urine test and a MRI or CAT scan whatever one it was....  Well they came back and notified me that I did have appendicitis (you gotta check to be sure but turns out I was right).  Anyways, I had the surgery and spent one night in the hospital.  The hospital was aware I didn't have insurance.  My parents helped me with most of the bills (1k for surgery (mom worked for same hospital so the surgeon cut the bill in half if paid cash right away, $600 for anesthetist, $600 for MRI/CAT scan whatever one it was, $300 for pathology test).  So basically the total bill for having the diagnosis and surgery was around 2-2.2k.  Then you have the hospital bill for one night stay, barely any check up, helping me get up once to take a piss (couldn't pee into plastic container in the bed), and pain killers.  You know what that bill was for??? I am pretty sure it was around 22k (they sent me the bill in the mail).  Luckily, they eventually wrote it off as tax break.   They probably overcharged a lot because they knew they were going to write it off.  So you are telling me that for one night stay and pain killers cost 20k??? lol....



sethnintendo said:
Vetteman94 said:
sethnintendo said:
Vetteman94 said:
thranx said:
Vetteman94 said:
Police Officers and Firefighters are also technically public servants should they not be paid as well?

Cutting their salaries wouldn't do much for our economy. Cutting little things like this and welfare programs that are tiny percentages in our budget will not fix the problem.


It will if we cut enough "little" things. They all add up to a lot. We have to start somewhere, and while I do not think they should work for free, I do feel they get paid way to much for their work and get far too many perks. This also varies from state to state though doesn't it? I know in CA the politicians get way too much money and way too many perks. Its crazy. Its no wonder they work for themselves and not for their communities they have to much invested in their personal gain.

If you cut enough of the little things,  the only thing you will do is hurt the poor people who need these programs to get by on a daily basis.  And we will still not solve the problem.  The main thing we need to do is cut military spending,  and more the size of it than anything,  I dont want them to stop advancing ourmilitary technologies.  We just dont need a military that isn't as bloated as we have.

Social Security, Medicare, and Military are pretty much the 3 biggest chunks of the USA budget.  Just addressing the military won't be enough.  We have to look at ways to make the healthcare more affordable, etc...  Hospitals, doctors, drug companies, HMOs... Tons of corruption and over billing/charging going on in pretty much every aspect of the healthcare industry in the USA.

The whole health care system is one of the few things I envy the people in alot of European countries with national Health Care systems.  I just hope that one day we can have it here.  

I personally experienced the joke that is called health care system in USA.  About 2 years ago I didn't have health insurance at the time (still don't, sorry you can kill me but no money for it or dental) and I happened to develop appendicitis (which is pretty rare for someone that is 27 years old at the time).  Anyways, I pretty much diagnosed myself after suffering from it for about  3 days.  I went to the emergency room and told them I have appendicitis.  They then did some touching on abdomen (to see where the pain was), urine test and a MRI or CAT scan whatever one it was....  Well they came back and notified me that I did have appendicitis (you gotta check to be sure but turns out I was right).  Anyways, I had the surgery and spent one night in the hospital.  The hospital was aware I didn't have insurance.  My parents helped me with most of the bills (1k for surgery (mom worked for same hospital so the surgeon cut the bill in half if paid cash right away, $600 for anesthetist, $600 for MRI/CAT scan whatever one it was, $300 for pathology test).  So basically the total bill for having the diagnosis and surgery was around 2-2.2k.  Then you have the hospital bill for one night stay, barely any check up, helping me get up once to take a piss (couldn't pee into plastic container in the bed), and pain killers.  You know what that bill was for??? I am pretty sure it was around 22k (they sent me the bill in the mail).  Luckily, they eventually wrote it off as tax break.   They probably overcharged a lot because they knew they were going to write it off.  So you are telling me that for one night stay and pain killers cost 20k??? lol....

Exactly,  its sad.   Luckily I have insurance,  but for one emergency room visit for me about 3 years ago it was $6k  and I left 4 hours after I got there.  



This is stupid.

USA have an GDP of 14 trillions.

If they cut off 50% of "security" expenses, they could eliminate poverty in this country(and maybe indirectly increase quality life around the world)

Ps.: There is also the american health system...that MUST change.

What have to be done is building and popularizing Medic Universities, with some incentives to low/med class people. Then, with more medics, i think that the salary wouldn't be so high.

Another problem is insurance plans and hospitals....

I don't know about USA, but in my country, when I pay for a doctor, around 5% to 25% goes to him if he is not independent. The rest goes of the money goes to health plan or hospital.



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Vetteman94 said:
sethnintendo said:
Vetteman94 said:
sethnintendo said:
Vetteman94 said:
thranx said:
Vetteman94 said:
Police Officers and Firefighters are also technically public servants should they not be paid as well?

Cutting their salaries wouldn't do much for our economy. Cutting little things like this and welfare programs that are tiny percentages in our budget will not fix the problem.


It will if we cut enough "little" things. They all add up to a lot. We have to start somewhere, and while I do not think they should work for free, I do feel they get paid way to much for their work and get far too many perks. This also varies from state to state though doesn't it? I know in CA the politicians get way too much money and way too many perks. Its crazy. Its no wonder they work for themselves and not for their communities they have to much invested in their personal gain.

If you cut enough of the little things,  the only thing you will do is hurt the poor people who need these programs to get by on a daily basis.  And we will still not solve the problem.  The main thing we need to do is cut military spending,  and more the size of it than anything,  I dont want them to stop advancing ourmilitary technologies.  We just dont need a military that isn't as bloated as we have.

Social Security, Medicare, and Military are pretty much the 3 biggest chunks of the USA budget.  Just addressing the military won't be enough.  We have to look at ways to make the healthcare more affordable, etc...  Hospitals, doctors, drug companies, HMOs... Tons of corruption and over billing/charging going on in pretty much every aspect of the healthcare industry in the USA.

The whole health care system is one of the few things I envy the people in alot of European countries with national Health Care systems.  I just hope that one day we can have it here.  

I personally experienced the joke that is called health care system in USA.  About 2 years ago I didn't have health insurance at the time (still don't, sorry you can kill me but no money for it or dental) and I happened to develop appendicitis (which is pretty rare for someone that is 27 years old at the time).  Anyways, I pretty much diagnosed myself after suffering from it for about  3 days.  I went to the emergency room and told them I have appendicitis.  They then did some touching on abdomen (to see where the pain was), urine test and a MRI or CAT scan whatever one it was....  Well they came back and notified me that I did have appendicitis (you gotta check to be sure but turns out I was right).  Anyways, I had the surgery and spent one night in the hospital.  The hospital was aware I didn't have insurance.  My parents helped me with most of the bills (1k for surgery (mom worked for same hospital so the surgeon cut the bill in half if paid cash right away, $600 for anesthetist, $600 for MRI/CAT scan whatever one it was, $300 for pathology test).  So basically the total bill for having the diagnosis and surgery was around 2-2.2k.  Then you have the hospital bill for one night stay, barely any check up, helping me get up once to take a piss (couldn't pee into plastic container in the bed), and pain killers.  You know what that bill was for??? I am pretty sure it was around 22k (they sent me the bill in the mail).  Luckily, they eventually wrote it off as tax break.   They probably overcharged a lot because they knew they were going to write it off.  So you are telling me that for one night stay and pain killers cost 20k??? lol....

Exactly,  its sad.   Luckily I have insurance,  but for one emergency room visit for me about 3 years ago it was $6k  and I left 4 hours after I got there.  

Sethnintendo, you are right that our health system needs changes. It does need reform. One of the problems in our healthcare system is the amount of tests a hospital has to go through to tell you something the doctor already has probably known. There are so many unnecessary tests that often take place. The problem is all the doctor has to do is breathe on you wrong and the hospital gets sued now days. They do so many tests to cover their butts. Our system can be over thorough many times.

Also @ Vetteman94.  You want the European style health care in America? Why is it that many of the rich in other countries end up coming to the States for their health care? Because its is arguably the best care in the world. You were also talking about how our country can't cut anything from the government programs, because it would hurt the poor people. The problem our nation is facing is with so much money being dumped into medicare, medicade, social security, ect that they are becoming unsustainable. We are becoming more and more a welfare state with an entitlement mentality. how did this nation become so great and prosperous?

1. through the freedom a man/woman has to go out and put his hand to the plow. the freedom a man/woman has to create a product and sell it at a profit. The freedom a man/woman has to buy and invest his money into whatever he wants.

 2. Through hard work and perseverance. The drive to not give up on the pursuit of prosperity and happiness. Through being individually responsible for oneself in providing for his/her needs and their family. The early settlers understood this.

3. It was through charitability in helping your fellow man in hard times to achieve the same goals so that we can prosper as one nation that stands for liberty and freedom. Its the freedom we have to make our own choices without a government telling us what we can and cannot do as individuals.

I think our country has lost some of these view points and has begun to rely more on what our government can provide for us. Its a shame to see so many people out of work. To see so many people on food stamps and on unemployment benefits. What are some of the nations of the world coming to when there are riots in the streets, because a government tries to handle some of its debt by making its people provide a little bit more for themselves? I ask why have we become so reliant on these government programs and then say we want government to provide even more for us? This is a shame. I understand there are those people out there that absolutely have no ability to work and are disabled. Those are the people who need the helping hand, and not the man that has capable hands and feet with a good back that can work and earn an income, but instead sits on his fanny collecting money from the government while his neighbor is working very hard and sees some of his money get distributed to the lazy man.

I see plenty of unemployed that would rather sit at home than honestly seek a job, because the government will pay for their needs. Grant it there are fewer jobs today, but I argue its because of increased regulation and government control rather than greedy corporations not wanting to hire workers. The American entrepreneur's spirit continues to be extinguished as the government promises to provide more and more for its people. Why should one work if he can get paid to do nothing?

I know something is wrong when people ask the government to provide more for them. Yes life is expensive. It requires hard work and dedication to have success. I am sorry if I offend, but I had to respond.




According to some congresswomen, they absolutely need that $170,000/yr salary to survive.

But at any rate, I agree. It should be a service to the American people to have such a high level of federal service. I say eliminate or significantly reduce salaries for congress, senate and presidency.

Oh, and Onibaka - you don't quite have a grasp of why the American medical system fails. It is not because we don't have a centrally planned service, but because of systemic problems with how our system works - a universal system would only make it worse, not better. Our private insurers cost $5,000/yr per person while our government plans cost between $7,000 and $8,000 per person per year. Costs would only go up, not down, with further government planning (and Obamacare is proof of this atrocity). Rather, to fix the problem we need to reform the entire system from who provides it, how they provide it, the regulations around our drugs, doctors and service centers, and of course, significantly reducing Medicare payouts which are intrinsically tied to hospital performance.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

chocoloco said:

Since the Iconograph I was trying to paste in would not work I can only paste a link to it.

http://www.totallyoffbeat.com/congress-is-richer-than-you-infographic/

My main problem with Congress is they are so rich they do not understand the people they represent.  Also as the iconograph shows congress is already so rich they do not need to be paid. They are suppossed to be public servents so I say they should be working as volunteers for our country. So I ask you VGchartz what do you think about this issue.

I also hear, if you move out into the ocean, or to either of the polar ice caps, or a nation that has broken down into civil war, the costs of government there is zero.  Doesn't mean that your quality of life will end up being better either.  

My problem with your comment is that you fail to grasp the scale of the economy, why there is deficits we  are running, and also that there are actual costs for doing things.  There ARE issues that should be addressed, but who do you exactly think would go to congress if there was no money to cover living expenses or even running offices?  Forget Mr. Smith going to Washington.  So, how exactly does not paying someone, and having them do the job out of their own money (meaning they are rich) causes them to understand how the little guy lives?  Even the little guy gets paid to work.  If you are doing work and not getting paid, well that is another issue.



mrstickball said:
According to some congresswomen, they absolutely need that $170,000/yr salary to survive.

But at any rate, I agree. It should be a service to the American people to have such a high level of federal service. I say eliminate or significantly reduce salaries for congress, senate and presidency.

Oh, and Onibaka - you don't quite have a grasp of why the American medical system fails. It is not because we don't have a centrally planned service, but because of systemic problems with how our system works - a universal system would only make it worse, not better. Our private insurers cost $5,000/yr per person while our government plans cost between $7,000 and $8,000 per person per year. Costs would only go up, not down, with further government planning (and Obamacare is proof of this atrocity). Rather, to fix the problem we need to reform the entire system from who provides it, how they provide it, the regulations around our drugs, doctors and service centers, and of course, significantly reducing Medicare payouts which are intrinsically tied to hospital performance.

With the medical plans Congress gets I can see logic in reducing their wages to about 20-30k per year.  Since they don't even have to worry about medical bills and get the best coverage.  Congress should also get paid less if they are fat, unhealthy, have a pre-medical condition, etc.. since the average American would be turned down or have to pay way more for bare minimum coverage.



sethnintendo said:
mrstickball said:
According to some congresswomen, they absolutely need that $170,000/yr salary to survive.

But at any rate, I agree. It should be a service to the American people to have such a high level of federal service. I say eliminate or significantly reduce salaries for congress, senate and presidency.

Oh, and Onibaka - you don't quite have a grasp of why the American medical system fails. It is not because we don't have a centrally planned service, but because of systemic problems with how our system works - a universal system would only make it worse, not better. Our private insurers cost $5,000/yr per person while our government plans cost between $7,000 and $8,000 per person per year. Costs would only go up, not down, with further government planning (and Obamacare is proof of this atrocity). Rather, to fix the problem we need to reform the entire system from who provides it, how they provide it, the regulations around our drugs, doctors and service centers, and of course, significantly reducing Medicare payouts which are intrinsically tied to hospital performance.

With the medical plans Congress gets I can see logic in reducing their wages to about 20-30k per year.  Since they don't even have to worry about medical bills and get the best coverage.  Congress should also get paid less if they are fat, unhealthy, have a pre-medical condition, etc.. since the average American would be turned down or have to pay way more for bare minimum coverage.

It always gets me that congress/senate and most all government employees have private benefit plans via COBRA and various public pension systems that utilize opportunities that are illegal for other Americans. As a state employee, I never had to pay into Social Security, yet as a private worker, I am forced to pay into it (which pays out a LOT less than my public retirement account did - you could retire after 30 years and get 50% more than if you worked 40 years under Social Security).



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.