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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony always improves Nintendo's innovations

Moren on 15 June 2011

No.
Making it technically better doesn't mean it's used in a better way.

Many of the things Sony copied, or Nintendo copied for that matter, aren't innovations, are things that are meant to be industry standards.

If Sony didn't add analog sticks, rumble, motion, they wouldn't be going in the right direction.

Same with people saying Nintendo copied HD, online and analog nubs.



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theARTIST0017 on 15 June 2011
Aprisaiden said:
Aielyn said:
Sony has a habit of taking anything Nintendo does, and doubling it. N64 controller has one analog stick? We'll put two on our controller. SNES controller has two shoulder buttons? We'll do four. N64 had one rumble pak? We'll have dual rumble! Nintendo made their consoles compatible with four controllers? We'll kick it up to 7 (only because the technology chosen doesn't like 8).

Even in handhelds. DS had one touchscreen? We'll have two on Vita.

Even when taking MS's innovations. Xbox 360 had three cores? We'll put in seven (more than double, here).

What I want to know is, how is Sony going to "double" what was added to Wii U?


WiiU supports one WiiU controller, PS3/Vita hybrid will support 2 ?

( though i believe Nintendo said that they are doing research into using 3DS's as extra controllers and might try to get a second tablet controller to work + Wiimote's work...)

Source please with confirmation. Thanks.



NINTENDO

nintendo forever . . .

Carl on 15 June 2011
Chrizum said:

I'm not making a big deal out of it because, while Nintendo has obviously "copied" a lot of things, HD gaming isn't one of them, because HD isn't an innovation or even an invention. Higher resolutions are a natural progression of graphical development. Would you claim the 360 "copied" multi-core processers or that PS2 "copied" higher RAM gaming? No, you would not, because it'd be ridiculous. Claiming Nintendo copied higher resolution gaming is just that: ridiculous.

I'm not getting into third party support and whatnot because that is extremely off-topic.


Erm... So... Nintendo didn't copy an idea, because the idea isn't an innovation or an invention? Okay. lol.

Pretty much everything we are using right now, is a copied idea of something else. It's natural. Someone gets an idea, puts it to paper, creates something. That idea is copied and expanded upon in some way or another. Again and again and again. Yes. It's progression. Just as Blu-ray is progression over DVD and how the iPhone is progression over the first ever phone. It's still copying the idea (And in most cases, expanding upon it somehow), whether you like to admit it or not, it's copying.

I'm done with this anyway. It's going nowhere and you're changing what you're saying over and over again. It's useless and I'm tired. Have fun with your thread. I've put my point across more than enough.



                            

Chrizum on 15 June 2011
Carl2291 said:
Chrizum said:

I'm not making a big deal out of it because, while Nintendo has obviously "copied" a lot of things, HD gaming isn't one of them, because HD isn't an innovation or even an invention. Higher resolutions are a natural progression of graphical development. Would you claim the 360 "copied" multi-core processers or that PS2 "copied" higher RAM gaming? No, you would not, because it'd be ridiculous. Claiming Nintendo copied higher resolution gaming is just that: ridiculous.

I'm not getting into third party support and whatnot because that is extremely off-topic.


Erm... So... Nintendo didn't copy an idea, because the idea isn't an innovation or an invention? Okay. lol.

Pretty much everything we are using right now, is a copied idea of something else. It's natural. Someone gets an idea, puts it to paper, creates something. That idea is copied and expanded upon in some way or another. Again and again and again. Yes. It's progression. Just as Blu-ray is progression over DVD and how the iPhone is progression over the first ever phone. It's still copying the idea (And in most cases, expanding upon it somehow), whether you like to admit it or not, it's copying.

I'm done with this anyway. It's going nowhere and you're changing what you're saying over and over again. It's useless and I'm tired. Have fun with your thread. I've put my point across more than enough.

You have. You just have a flawed definition of copying that's all.



Carl on 15 June 2011
padib said:
Carl2291 said:

-sigh-

My post isn't about who "invented" HD gaming. I don't care about who invented it. My post was about how Nintendo aren't the big huge innovators people make them out to be, and they too "copy" from time to time. The constant "bashing", as you say, is always on Sony in these threads. Hence why I also had the analogue nub point after it.

I don't see why it's so hard to grasp. Really.

I do understand what your post was about, that Nintendo aren't the big huge innovators and whatnot. Reread my post and you'll see I understood. All I'm saying is, when you're doing that, to keep things constructive, try to use an example that's more relevant or more meaningful, otherwise naturally some will feel like it's pure bashing.

Carl2291 said:
Chrizum said:

Basically what I'm trying to say is what padib above me is saying. "Going HD" is not copying anything. HD is not some innovation, it's just a buzz term for higher resolutions, just like "HI-RES" was back in the N64 days with the Expansion Pack.

Again, yes Nintendo does copy things and yes Sony does innovate things. I'd argue Nintendo is known more for their bald innovation moves than Sony, but that's beside the point. What you're trying do here, and in many more similar threads, is pointing the finger to guys starting a fire, whilst putting more oil on said fire yourself. And with a bad argument to boot!


That's not what you're trying to say at all... lol, you've been accusing me of "implying" Sony invented HD, or something like that...

HD is not an innovation, but it's a major component to have on your console. Nintendo didn't feel the need for it with Wii, Microsoft and Sony wanted it on 360/PS3. Look what happened there with actual 3rd party support.

Now, so many Years later, with a huge lack of meaningful 3rd party support, Nintendo finally decide that HD is needed. Hence, one of the key focuses of the Wii U reveal being on the graphical power of the machine and how "nice" things look in shiny HD. Iwata is saying a lack of HD was one of Wii's main failures, and a reason why it failed to attract a certain gamer. HD has been made huge this generation, and Nintendo are late to the party with it. They're putting tech into the Wii U that has been around for Years already on competing devices.

Nintendo have copied the idea of putting HD into the console. This is a fact. I don't see why you're making such a big deal out of it.

Now here, I can't disagree with you. But don't you realize that it's off topic. You can argue all you want that Nintendo makes some poor business decisions, and I'll second you on that. (I will add though that they are very ready as well to correct those mistakes, especially as of late)

But, to say Nintendo copied the idea of putting HD into consoles. I'd have to say, Nintendo certainly knew about that option, it doesn't take to be a genius to think about that possibility. Can't prove it to ya, but I'm positive. What they did though is, instead of making the right business decision and integrate HD in its graphics capabilities, it chose not to. Does that make it less innovative? Does it later make it a copier? I would say no. It would however make that decision a not so good one. Reason: they lost some consumer trust end of lifecycle. For the first 4 years it was fine, but now with the competition showing some strength, we're starting to feel it's about time Wii's older brother came and saved it from damage.

Just my point of view.


I said I was done here just now, but I will reply to you before I go.

First quote -

If you look at my original post, I did. I used the 3DS analogue nub point straight after. 2 totally different aspects of "copying", but "copying" none-the-less.

Second quote -

Firstly, I respect your point of view, and I agree that people at Nintendo will likely have had the ideas of going HD with Wii when they were first designing the machine. The higher ups though, obviously said no. They wanted to keep it cheap to make and they wanted money. Now 5 Years later and they see the predicament they're in with the divided userbases and lack of meaningful support, the big men at Ninty decide to hop on board and follow the crowd, finally. I personally see it as copying the idea, but then again, I can see how this could also be seen as not copying.

Anyway. I really am done here now.



                            

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Aielyn on 16 June 2011
theARTIST0017 said:
Aprisaiden said:
WiiU supports one WiiU controller, PS3/Vita hybrid will support 2 ?

( though i believe Nintendo said that they are doing research into using 3DS's as extra controllers and might try to get a second tablet controller to work + Wiimote's work...)

Source please with confirmation. Thanks.

I just went for the first article I found after typing "WiiU one controller" into google (without quotes).

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-09-only-one-wii-u-controller-per-console



Staude on 16 June 2011
ninty_shareholder64 said:
Icyedge said:
ninty_shareholder64 said:
Doobie_wop said:
Nintendo are probably the least innovative manufacturer in the biz, Sony copies Nintendo's copied concepts, it's like stealing from a thief. Outside of maybe the rumble and the two screens on the DS, they haven't done that much. Now Sega is a whole different story, they've pretty much had a hand in nearly everything.

Sony works on old concepts and makes them better, every improvised concept they've done has basically become an industry standard (dual analogue, built in rumble, BC in consoles, optical media). This thread is an innocent one, but claiming Nintendo is innovative only means that you don't know to much about gaming history. I don't like when credit is given to undeserving companies, people could at leas be a little bit respectful towards the real creators of analogue sticks, touch screen gaming, 3D plat-forming, side scrolling plat-formers and console motion controls and not just throw all the praise on Nintendo just because they had the marketing budget to make the concepts well known.

The process of creating something new is always a long way. There are very many different people and/or companies involved. Of course analogue control, rumble, motion-controls etc. were invented before Ninty used it for their current console. Nevertheless, it was Ninty that invented these features as console-specific features, so of course Ninty innovates.

Do you think optical media, built in rumble etc. was invented from the very beginning from Sony? min 3 of your 4 arguments are rediculous, imo. dual analogue after Ninty built N64 controler, built in rumble after Ninty introduced it and optical media, you know the Saturn right?

So every company adds something new in the end. And i agree with the conclusion that Ninty introduced many things on the console market and Sony makes them better . There's never given credit to the basic researchers, i doubt you know any of them.

Don't forget, without Ninty Sony most probably wouldn't be part of the gaming market at all.


Ok, so when Nintendo take it from the PC and arcade to apply it to N64, which is the first 3D centric home console, its great innnovation. But when Sony decide to implement a second analog to control camera its lame and unimaginative.

Yes, it's innovation to take it from anywhere and apply it to a console. thump-sticks like the one used for the N64 were very rare in 1990 even for PC users. So you can call it what you want, but imo ninty innovates. And yes, imo, a second analog is less innovative, but a second screen for an handheld is more innovative. 

lame and unimaginative is just your comment.


Without a second analogue stick, the first person shooter genre .. and third person.. and any genre in which you move a avatar and a camera independent of eachother, would have never worked well on consoles.

 

Even the wiimote and the move would function so much better for those genres if they only had analogues stuck onto them.



Check out my game about moles ^

ninty_shareholder64 on 16 June 2011
Staude said:
ninty_shareholder64 said:
Icyedge said:
ninty_shareholder64 said:
Doobie_wop said:
Nintendo are probably the least innovative manufacturer in the biz, Sony copies Nintendo's copied concepts, it's like stealing from a thief. Outside of maybe the rumble and the two screens on the DS, they haven't done that much. Now Sega is a whole different story, they've pretty much had a hand in nearly everything.

Sony works on old concepts and makes them better, every improvised concept they've done has basically become an industry standard (dual analogue, built in rumble, BC in consoles, optical media). This thread is an innocent one, but claiming Nintendo is innovative only means that you don't know to much about gaming history. I don't like when credit is given to undeserving companies, people could at leas be a little bit respectful towards the real creators of analogue sticks, touch screen gaming, 3D plat-forming, side scrolling plat-formers and console motion controls and not just throw all the praise on Nintendo just because they had the marketing budget to make the concepts well known.

The process of creating something new is always a long way. There are very many different people and/or companies involved. Of course analogue control, rumble, motion-controls etc. were invented before Ninty used it for their current console. Nevertheless, it was Ninty that invented these features as console-specific features, so of course Ninty innovates.

Do you think optical media, built in rumble etc. was invented from the very beginning from Sony? min 3 of your 4 arguments are rediculous, imo. dual analogue after Ninty built N64 controler, built in rumble after Ninty introduced it and optical media, you know the Saturn right?

So every company adds something new in the end. And i agree with the conclusion that Ninty introduced many things on the console market and Sony makes them better . There's never given credit to the basic researchers, i doubt you know any of them.

Don't forget, without Ninty Sony most probably wouldn't be part of the gaming market at all.


Ok, so when Nintendo take it from the PC and arcade to apply it to N64, which is the first 3D centric home console, its great innnovation. But when Sony decide to implement a second analog to control camera its lame and unimaginative.

Yes, it's innovation to take it from anywhere and apply it to a console. thump-sticks like the one used for the N64 were very rare in 1990 even for PC users. So you can call it what you want, but imo ninty innovates. And yes, imo, a second analog is less innovative, but a second screen for an handheld is more innovative. 

lame and unimaginative is just your comment.


Without a second analogue stick, the first person shooter genre .. and third person.. and any genre in which you move a avatar and a camera independent of eachother, would have never worked well on consoles.

 

Even the wiimote and the move would function so much better for those genres if they only had analogues stuck onto them.

Goldeneye 64 says hello.

This was the 1st FPS on console that worked well. The 2nd stick controler from Sony was obv an improved version, nevertheless, N64-controler was the 1st FPS controler that worked well (still love the N64 controler because of the z-trigger). So, Ninty innovated with the thump-stick and Sony innovated with improved version. So both innovated, but imo the bigger step was the 1st one from Ninty.

But hey, in threads full of true "fans", of course there will be plenty of people disagreeing with my opinion and that's ok.

I'm glad that both companies exist and M$, of course. We gamers should be happy about that, it just gets better and better and in the end it doesn't matter if company A or B innovated or improved feature x and y, or the other way around.



theARTIST0017 on 16 June 2011
Aielyn said:
theARTIST0017 said:
Aprisaiden said:
WiiU supports one WiiU controller, PS3/Vita hybrid will support 2 ?

( though i believe Nintendo said that they are doing research into using 3DS's as extra controllers and might try to get a second tablet controller to work + Wiimote's work...)

Source please with confirmation. Thanks.

I just went for the first article I found after typing "WiiU one controller" into google (without quotes).

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-06-09-only-one-wii-u-controller-per-console

Uh huh. And check this article out . . .

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/06/nintendos-reggie-says-wii-u-can-actually-support-two-tablet-controllers/

This is the reason I believe a year from now they will  add 4 player Wii U support (4 Wii U controllers)



NINTENDO

nintendo forever . . .

d21lewis on 16 June 2011

The Nes came with a fucking robot. R.O.B. once protected me from a bunch of bullies that tried to steal my lunch money. Beat that, Sony.