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Forums - General - Nuclear Power

 

Nuclear Power is...

The source of energy of t... 15 17.24%
 
A fine source of power th... 24 27.59%
 
Its ok. Let's use it for now 21 24.14%
 
We should replace it with renewables asap 22 25.29%
 
Shut'em ALL down right now! ITS EVIL! 5 5.75%
 
Total:87
silicon said:
Dr.Grass said:
mai said:
^Yeah, fusion power is the future... BELIEVE! Since... 1960s =)

I remember watching old movie about physicists that captured the moment of romantic attitude towards scientific and technical progress of humanity, it was just around the corner it seemed to the people of that era. 50 years later we still haven't seen ground-breaking results in that field, and that ITER project afaik is expected to be finished somewhere around 2040. Metaphorically speaking the pendulum of technical progress is about to swing the opposite way.

Ummm...Fusion reactors are already possible. They are just a little too expensive to build.

You basically have the fuel floating in a magnetic trap in the form of a high temperature, high pressure plasma. They are able to make fusion energy in this way. There are still a few developments needed for this to be fully practical, all that is needed is big funding. Unfortunately fusion isn't being supported as much at the moment.

Expensive financially or also energetically?

Both. The energy yield is just about positive, but it costs an enormous amount of money.



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d21lewis said:
I actually work at a nuclear power plant. It's rare that I get to go inside the reactor or anything but I've been there and seen the goings on. I will admit that if something were to go wrong (there's tons and tons of fail safes and contingencies to prevent that--it's top secret, though), the results could be disastrous. But from what I've seen, the environment is sterile. Outside agencies police us all of the time (the Nuclear Regulatory Committee and others). The slightest amount of radiation is checked. We even have these necklaces that we wear all the time that measures our radiation exposure over an amount of time and we have our bodies scanned annually.

I walked in the front door skeptical of what that job would do as far as my long term health was concerned. I figured that being a mutant would be offset by the amount of money they would pay and I was willing to make that sacrifice to provide a better life for my family (it didn't help that the woman giving our orientation had two thumbs on the same hand!! I'm not joking!!). Now, I'm 100% behind the nuclear industry. At least, at our facility, the severity of an environmental disaster is taken seriously (and I'm sure its industry wide). It's a great form of energy and will only become more so in the future.

--I heard that, following Japan's nuclear crisis, some countries are planning to decommission their nuclear power programs. I think its a mistake on their parts. But then again, my place of work (Plant Vogtle, if you're concerned: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_Vogtle) is actually building the first new nuclear reactors in the United States in 30 years. I may be a little biased.

actually i believe that is part of the problem with nuclear power plants. there are too many old ones buildt in the 60's. There are so many new technologies and ways to make them safer then they used to be built now.

i do believe in using nuclear power, because it is a cheap source of energy. but safety should always be first. and Nuclear power plants that can not whitstand a airplane crash are not safe in this day and age, regardless how many fail safes are in place to eliminate human error.



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’

Until someone can provide an efficient, preferably cost-efficient too, way to create power, nuclear power is the way to go. Sadly the thing is, renewable sources aren't good enough and the others, let's just say that pollution is a real problem.



Porcupine_I said:

actually i believe that is part of the problem with nuclear power plants. there are too many old ones buildt in the 60's. There are so many new technologies and ways to make them safer then they used to be built now.

i do believe in using nuclear power, because it is a cheap source of energy. but safety should always be first. and Nuclear power plants that can not whitstand a airplane crash are not safe in this day and age, regardless how many fail safes are in place to eliminate human error.


In defense of the old plants, we do have "outages" every few months.  The plant (or part of it, anyway) is totally powered down and everything is inspected.  Lots of components get replaced or improved.  It's not perfect, by any means.  It's like replacing parts of an old car instead of buying a brand new car.  Still, I've only been there for a couple of years and the amount of changes and improvements that have happened in just that small amount of time (I think I've seen about five outages) is pretty impressive.  And for the record, our plant is reportedly able to withstand earthquakes and a direct hit by a commercial airplane.  The key word is, reportedly--not quit sure how that would hold up in practice.  Most of the key components are in hardened structures far underground with automatic systems designed to kick in if something goes wrong.  I'll quit now because certain things are considered protected information so I won't go into it.  From what I've seen and the propaganda they push on us, we're fine.  Again, I can only speak of our particular plant and not every nuclear plant in the world.



Nuclear Power is OK if the plants aren't built in dangerous areas (Japan). I support nuclear far more than coal which is terrible for the enviroment.



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Dr.Grass said:
silicon said:
Dr.Grass said:
mai said:
^Yeah, fusion power is the future... BELIEVE! Since... 1960s =)

I remember watching old movie about physicists that captured the moment of romantic attitude towards scientific and technical progress of humanity, it was just around the corner it seemed to the people of that era. 50 years later we still haven't seen ground-breaking results in that field, and that ITER project afaik is expected to be finished somewhere around 2040. Metaphorically speaking the pendulum of technical progress is about to swing the opposite way.

Ummm...Fusion reactors are already possible. They are just a little too expensive to build.

You basically have the fuel floating in a magnetic trap in the form of a high temperature, high pressure plasma. They are able to make fusion energy in this way. There are still a few developments needed for this to be fully practical, all that is needed is big funding. Unfortunately fusion isn't being supported as much at the moment.

Expensive financially or also energetically?

Both. The energy yield is just about positive, but it costs an enormous amount of money.

As far as I know there is only 1 fission nuclear, the ITER project in France, and they are still building the facilities. Acording to Wikipedia, the cost is around € 15 billion and allegedly will produce 500 MW while consuming 50 MW.



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JEMC said:
Dr.Grass said:
silicon said:
Dr.Grass said:
mai said:
^Yeah, fusion power is the future... BELIEVE! Since... 1960s =)

I remember watching old movie about physicists that captured the moment of romantic attitude towards scientific and technical progress of humanity, it was just around the corner it seemed to the people of that era. 50 years later we still haven't seen ground-breaking results in that field, and that ITER project afaik is expected to be finished somewhere around 2040. Metaphorically speaking the pendulum of technical progress is about to swing the opposite way.

Ummm...Fusion reactors are already possible. They are just a little too expensive to build.

You basically have the fuel floating in a magnetic trap in the form of a high temperature, high pressure plasma. They are able to make fusion energy in this way. There are still a few developments needed for this to be fully practical, all that is needed is big funding. Unfortunately fusion isn't being supported as much at the moment.

Expensive financially or also energetically?

Both. The energy yield is just about positive, but it costs an enormous amount of money.

As far as I know there is only 1 fission nuclear, the ITER project in France, and they are still building the facilities. Acording to Wikipedia, the cost is around € 15 billion and allegedly will produce 500 MW while consuming 50 MW.

Ja that's the one they're trying to get working. Those figures are open to speculation though.



Dr.Grass said:

Ummm...Fusion reactors are already possible. They are just a little too expensive to build.

Of course, they are =) they were built since 1950s. That wasn't the point.

BTW few years ago it's been reported that Chinese were able to achieve positive energy balance working on EAST tokamak (a distant descendant of T-7) for 5 sec, not sure though why this story appeared in media (afaik there were tests that were proved to achieve positive balance prior to that, though in even shorter span of time).



Nuclear power is fine, and i feel the environmental lobby's rage at the Fukushima disaster is misplaced. They should be blaming TEPCO in particular, and not nuclear power in general. Especially stupid in Germany which pretty much never has natural disasters, and for whom nuclear (supplemented by North Sea shore wind) is probably the best option given their level of development



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

d21lewis said:
Porcupine_I said:
 

actually i believe that is part of the problem with nuclear power plants. there are too many old ones buildt in the 60's. There are so many new technologies and ways to make them safer then they used to be built now.

i do believe in using nuclear power, because it is a cheap source of energy. but safety should always be first. and Nuclear power plants that can not whitstand a airplane crash are not safe in this day and age, regardless how many fail safes are in place to eliminate human error.


In defense of the old plants, we do have "outages" every few months.  The plant (or part of it, anyway) is totally powered down and everything is inspected.  Lots of components get replaced or improved.  It's not perfect, by any means.  It's like replacing parts of an old car instead of buying a brand new car.  Still, I've only been there for a couple of years and the amount of changes and improvements that have happened in just that small amount of time (I think I've seen about five outages) is pretty impressive.  And for the record, our plant is reportedly able to withstand earthquakes and a direct hit by a commercial airplane.  The key word is, reportedly--not quit sure how that would hold up in practice.  Most of the key components are in hardened structures far underground with automatic systems designed to kick in if something goes wrong.  I'll quit now because certain things are considered protected information so I won't go into it.  From what I've seen and the propaganda they push on us, we're fine.  Again, I can only speak of our particular plant and not every nuclear plant in the world.

of course, and i have no intention to imply that your plant is dangerous.

i believe though, what fukushima has shown, is that you can't just "power down" a nuclear power plant. some of the reactors haven't even been in use and still  the used rods pose a great danger, and i bleive that is something that scared people a lot.

 



“It appeared that there had even been demonstrations to thank Big Brother for raising the chocolate ration to twenty grams a week. And only yesterday, he reflected, it had been announced that the ration was to be reduced to twenty grams a week. Was it possible that they could swallow that, after only twenty-four hours? Yes, they swallowed it.”

- George Orwell, ‘1984’