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Forums - Sales Discussion - Sony have already won...

Mummelmann on 28 December 2007
rocketpig said:
Mummelmann said:

I'm not the one who ever claimed it "won" anything, I just pointed out that the thread was clearly about 2nd place both because of the post itself and the fact that everyone has declared the Wii as the winner. How does no one understand that? :-O


Sorry for quoting you on that one, Mummel. I wasn't directing my point at you, just pointing out how inane this thread is when you factor in where Sony has been the past decade vs. where they are now.


 Yeah, talk about taking a plunge... 



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Metallicube on 28 December 2007
X-Man said:

If the war is between PS3/360, quite frankly, Sony have already won.

Looking back, the PS2 got the bulk of its sales from Europe (Others), not NA or Japan. At the rate the PS3 is selling, it will overtake the 360 in 'Others' by mid-08.

Japan is by far the smallest region but it's certainly not insignificant. Between the PS3 and 360, it pretty much belongs to Sony. The coming of games such as Gran Turismo 5 and Final Fantasy XIII will only further escalate the situation.

That only leaves North America. Microsoft cannot win this war with strong NA sales alone. Unless they can turn this around, they're destined to come in third. 

As I see it, 08 is the make or break year for both Microsoft and Sony. And to some extent, Nintendo. 

 

If you reply then please give reasonable and logical answers. And for the love of God, no fanboys. 


Alright first off, where do people seem to get this unwritten rule that we must discount the first place contender and consider 2nd place the "winner?" Nintendo will be the winner if anything, not Sony. 

 Second, PS3 MAY eventually pass 360, but it won't happen as fast as most people think if it does. Sure Sony has 2 markets while MS has 1, but if you look at worldwide sales each week, they're virtually tied, especially if you consider the margin of error. This obviously won't be enough for the PS3 to ever catch the 360. Unless games like MGS4 and FFXIII ignite these enormous PS3 sales, I think Sony has no chance for any place but 3rd. They may close the gap when it's all said and done, but I still think they will be short of beating the 360's worldwide sales. 



sieanr on 28 December 2007
ssj12 said: Why are you bring PC into this. PC has had resolutions in the super HD levels back 10 years ago. It is not in the same catagory as PC's market is currently 1000 times larger then the console market. 

You are so full of shit. 10 years ago the best graphics cards on the market would output 768x1024, if you were lucky - and thats a limit of the hardware. Not to mention that the best consumer monitors were limited to around the same, let alone anything close to "super HD levels". Really, you just pull technical details out of you're ass all the time, and they're almost never right. 

As for PC market being larger than console gaming; in what way do you mean. Globally? Casual market? Or the "hardcore" games?



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

sieanr on 28 December 2007
SlorgNet said:
Sony and Nintendo are both winners in this generation of consoles. Microsoft is in a pickle, because it has yet to recoup the $6.5 billion it has lost since launching the Xbox line, or to reclaim the 31% market share it had as recently as 2006.

Also, it's too easy to bash the PS3 for being pricy and for losing Sony billions. The billions were well-spent, in the form of a top-notch media player - for every yen Sony loses on a PS3, it gains three back in the form of TVs, electronics and BluRay discs. The PS3 is part of an integrated media strategy, it's not a standalone product.

Interesting theory, but it looks like things aren't going according to plan. In September Sony reported losses from the TV division amounting to 60 Billion yen ($526 million). Bluray is still in a fight with HDDVD, and in time that may make up for the PS3 losses. Yet that remains to be seen, and its an awfully big gamble. 

The problem with an "integrated media strategy" such as this is when it doesn't go according to plan everything falls apart. Losing money on the PS3 will only work if it really drives sales in the other areas enough to make up for the losses of the gaming division. But because they underestimated the competition this time around in the gaming division the PS3 is doing far worse than they expected and thus cannot full fill this strategy as much as they would've hoped. The problem is just because a person buys a PS3 doesn't mean they're tied in to Sony electronics. Some people will make a whole entertainment suit with only Sony electronics, but they are already loyalist to the brand. Most will buy whatever is cheapest or most competitive, and that generally isn't Sony. Because of that the only real way I can see the PS3 benefitting the electronics division is via Bluray and royalties.

Essentially they decided that the other areas were more important than gaming and that the PS brand could still win out despite this. Now they've pissed away the better part of two gens worth of profits, market leadership and consumer loyalty. The question is if that sacrifice will make up for itself in the long run with Bluray, and wether or not that sacrifice will severely hurt them come next gen.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

clandecyon on 29 December 2007

Saying Sony has won anything at this point in terms of PS3 is a bit premature.  Now, if you were to say Wii has already won, you might have a bit more leverage for the claim.



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krik on 29 December 2007
sieanr said:
SlorgNet said:
Sony and Nintendo are both winners in this generation of consoles. Microsoft is in a pickle, because it has yet to recoup the $6.5 billion it has lost since launching the Xbox line, or to reclaim the 31% market share it had as recently as 2006.

Also, it's too easy to bash the PS3 for being pricy and for losing Sony billions. The billions were well-spent, in the form of a top-notch media player - for every yen Sony loses on a PS3, it gains three back in the form of TVs, electronics and BluRay discs. The PS3 is part of an integrated media strategy, it's not a standalone product.

Interesting theory, but it looks like things aren't going according to plan. In September Sony reported losses from the TV division amounting to 60 Billion yen ($526 million). Bluray is still in a fight with HDDVD, and in time that may make up for the PS3 losses. Yet that remains to be seen, and its an awfully big gamble. 

The problem with an "integrated media strategy" such as this is when it doesn't go according to plan everything falls apart. Losing money on the PS3 will only work if it really drives sales in the other areas enough to make up for the losses of the gaming division. But because they underestimated the competition this time around in the gaming division the PS3 is doing far worse than they expected and thus cannot full fill this strategy as much as they would've hoped. The problem is just because a person buys a PS3 doesn't mean they're tied in to Sony electronics. Some people will make a whole entertainment suit with only Sony electronics, but they are already loyalist to the brand. Most will buy whatever is cheapest or most competitive, and that generally isn't Sony. Because of that the only real way I can see the PS3 benefitting the electronics division is via Bluray and royalties.

Essentially they decided that the other areas were more important than gaming and that the PS brand could still win out despite this. Now they've pissed away the better part of two gens worth of profits, market leadership and consumer loyalty. The question is if that sacrifice will make up for itself in the long run with Bluray, and wether or not that sacrifice will severely hurt them come next gen.


 Last quarter (July 1 to Sept 30 2007) Sony reported a profit of $930M on their Electronics division and a loss of $841M on their Game division. So between the 2 they are about even. Get your facts right please. 

Here is the link: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/07q2_sony.pdf

 EDIT: Changed values from Yen to USD.



PSN ID: krik

Optimistic predictions for 2008 (Feb 5 2008): Wii = 20M, PS3 = 14M, X360 = 9.5M

 

sieanr on 29 December 2007
krik said:
sieanr said:
SlorgNet said:
Sony and Nintendo are both winners in this generation of consoles. Microsoft is in a pickle, because it has yet to recoup the $6.5 billion it has lost since launching the Xbox line, or to reclaim the 31% market share it had as recently as 2006.

Also, it's too easy to bash the PS3 for being pricy and for losing Sony billions. The billions were well-spent, in the form of a top-notch media player - for every yen Sony loses on a PS3, it gains three back in the form of TVs, electronics and BluRay discs. The PS3 is part of an integrated media strategy, it's not a standalone product.

Interesting theory, but it looks like things aren't going according to plan. In September Sony reported losses from the TV division amounting to 60 Billion yen ($526 million). Bluray is still in a fight with HDDVD, and in time that may make up for the PS3 losses. Yet that remains to be seen, and its an awfully big gamble. 

The problem with an "integrated media strategy" such as this is when it doesn't go according to plan everything falls apart. Losing money on the PS3 will only work if it really drives sales in the other areas enough to make up for the losses of the gaming division. But because they underestimated the competition this time around in the gaming division the PS3 is doing far worse than they expected and thus cannot full fill this strategy as much as they would've hoped. The problem is just because a person buys a PS3 doesn't mean they're tied in to Sony electronics. Some people will make a whole entertainment suit with only Sony electronics, but they are already loyalist to the brand. Most will buy whatever is cheapest or most competitive, and that generally isn't Sony. Because of that the only real way I can see the PS3 benefitting the electronics division is via Bluray and royalties.

Essentially they decided that the other areas were more important than gaming and that the PS brand could still win out despite this. Now they've pissed away the better part of two gens worth of profits, market leadership and consumer loyalty. The question is if that sacrifice will make up for itself in the long run with Bluray, and wether or not that sacrifice will severely hurt them come next gen.


 Last quarter (July 1 to Sept 30 2007) Sony reported a profit of $930M on their Electronics division and a loss of $841M on their Game division. So between the 2 they are about even. Get your facts right please. 

Here is the link: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/07q2_sony.pdf

 EDIT: Changed values from Yen to USD.


Except the PS3 is cited as helping to drive TV sales. This isn't about the electronics division as a whole since its illogical to claim that viao or MP3 player sales will increase due to the PS3. My facts were correct, you just didn't understand the argument.



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

krik on 29 December 2007
sieanr said:
krik said:
sieanr said:
SlorgNet said:
Sony and Nintendo are both winners in this generation of consoles. Microsoft is in a pickle, because it has yet to recoup the $6.5 billion it has lost since launching the Xbox line, or to reclaim the 31% market share it had as recently as 2006.

Also, it's too easy to bash the PS3 for being pricy and for losing Sony billions. The billions were well-spent, in the form of a top-notch media player - for every yen Sony loses on a PS3, it gains three back in the form of TVs, electronics and BluRay discs. The PS3 is part of an integrated media strategy, it's not a standalone product.

Interesting theory, but it looks like things aren't going according to plan. In September Sony reported losses from the TV division amounting to 60 Billion yen ($526 million). Bluray is still in a fight with HDDVD, and in time that may make up for the PS3 losses. Yet that remains to be seen, and its an awfully big gamble. 

The problem with an "integrated media strategy" such as this is when it doesn't go according to plan everything falls apart. Losing money on the PS3 will only work if it really drives sales in the other areas enough to make up for the losses of the gaming division. But because they underestimated the competition this time around in the gaming division the PS3 is doing far worse than they expected and thus cannot full fill this strategy as much as they would've hoped. The problem is just because a person buys a PS3 doesn't mean they're tied in to Sony electronics. Some people will make a whole entertainment suit with only Sony electronics, but they are already loyalist to the brand. Most will buy whatever is cheapest or most competitive, and that generally isn't Sony. Because of that the only real way I can see the PS3 benefitting the electronics division is via Bluray and royalties.

Essentially they decided that the other areas were more important than gaming and that the PS brand could still win out despite this. Now they've pissed away the better part of two gens worth of profits, market leadership and consumer loyalty. The question is if that sacrifice will make up for itself in the long run with Bluray, and wether or not that sacrifice will severely hurt them come next gen.


 Last quarter (July 1 to Sept 30 2007) Sony reported a profit of $930M on their Electronics division and a loss of $841M on their Game division. So between the 2 they are about even. Get your facts right please. 

Here is the link: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/07q2_sony.pdf

 EDIT: Changed values from Yen to USD.


Except the PS3 is cited as helping to drive TV sales. This isn't about the electronics division as a whole since its illogical to claim that viao or MP3 player sales will increase due to the PS3. My facts were correct, you just didn't understand the argument.


Sorry but your facts are completely wrong. There is no "TV division" at Sony. Only a "Electronics division" and it did not post a loss at all, it posted a solid profit of almost $1B last quarter. 

If your facts are correct then show me the link to the earnings report where you see a "TV division" posting a $526M loss. Just replying stating your facts are correct and I'm the one that does not understand the argument is not really helping you.

I can't comment on the $1 loss on PS3 vs $3 profit in TVs argument since there is no official information about that at all. My comment is just regarding the part I bolded in your original reply to "SlorgNet".



PSN ID: krik

Optimistic predictions for 2008 (Feb 5 2008): Wii = 20M, PS3 = 14M, X360 = 9.5M

 

sieanr on 29 December 2007
krik said:
sieanr said:
krik said:
sieanr said:
SlorgNet said:
Sony and Nintendo are both winners in this generation of consoles. Microsoft is in a pickle, because it has yet to recoup the $6.5 billion it has lost since launching the Xbox line, or to reclaim the 31% market share it had as recently as 2006.

Also, it's too easy to bash the PS3 for being pricy and for losing Sony billions. The billions were well-spent, in the form of a top-notch media player - for every yen Sony loses on a PS3, it gains three back in the form of TVs, electronics and BluRay discs. The PS3 is part of an integrated media strategy, it's not a standalone product.

Interesting theory, but it looks like things aren't going according to plan. In September Sony reported losses from the TV division amounting to 60 Billion yen ($526 million). Bluray is still in a fight with HDDVD, and in time that may make up for the PS3 losses. Yet that remains to be seen, and its an awfully big gamble. 

The problem with an "integrated media strategy" such as this is when it doesn't go according to plan everything falls apart. Losing money on the PS3 will only work if it really drives sales in the other areas enough to make up for the losses of the gaming division. But because they underestimated the competition this time around in the gaming division the PS3 is doing far worse than they expected and thus cannot full fill this strategy as much as they would've hoped. The problem is just because a person buys a PS3 doesn't mean they're tied in to Sony electronics. Some people will make a whole entertainment suit with only Sony electronics, but they are already loyalist to the brand. Most will buy whatever is cheapest or most competitive, and that generally isn't Sony. Because of that the only real way I can see the PS3 benefitting the electronics division is via Bluray and royalties.

Essentially they decided that the other areas were more important than gaming and that the PS brand could still win out despite this. Now they've pissed away the better part of two gens worth of profits, market leadership and consumer loyalty. The question is if that sacrifice will make up for itself in the long run with Bluray, and wether or not that sacrifice will severely hurt them come next gen.


 Last quarter (July 1 to Sept 30 2007) Sony reported a profit of $930M on their Electronics division and a loss of $841M on their Game division. So between the 2 they are about even. Get your facts right please. 

Here is the link: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/07q2_sony.pdf

 EDIT: Changed values from Yen to USD.


Except the PS3 is cited as helping to drive TV sales. This isn't about the electronics division as a whole since its illogical to claim that viao or MP3 player sales will increase due to the PS3. My facts were correct, you just didn't understand the argument.


Sorry but your facts are completely wrong. There is no "TV division" at Sony. Only a "Electronics division" and it did not post a loss at all, it posted a solid profit of almost $1B last quarter. 

If your facts are correct then show me the link to the earnings report where you see a "TV division" posting a $526M loss. Just replying stating your facts are correct and I'm the one that does not understand the argument is not really helping you.

I can't comment on the $1 loss on PS3 vs $3 profit in TVs argument since there is no official information about that at all. My comment is just regarding the part I bolded in your original reply to "SlorgNet".

Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about. Within the electronics division there are separate groups that make different products.

"Sony's television division lost $526.3 million dollars in the fiscal year through September, a figure the company says was partly due to losses on its RP TV products. Falling LCD prices also played a part, but Sony can't afford to ignore a market that's burning red hot." - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071228-sony-cuts-rear-projection-tvs-allies-with-samsung-on-future-lcd-production.html

  



Leo-j said: If a dvd for a pc game holds what? Crysis at 3000p or something, why in the world cant a blu-ray disc do the same?

ssj12 said: Player specific decoders are nothing more than specialized GPUs. Gran Turismo is the trust driving simulator of them all. 

"Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away" 

ultraslick on 29 December 2007

@sienar
you have listed: "Why do they call it the xbox 360? Because when you see it, you'll turn 360 degrees and walk away"

I feel I should say, if you see something in front of you, then turn 360 degrees, you will be facing it again.

to turn and walk the other direction would be 180 degrees.

Also, I appreciate your fact checking on Wikipedia.



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