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Forums - Sony - Hacking Group: "It's the beginning of the end for Sony"

vlad321 said:
LivingMetal said:
vlad321 said:
LivingMetal said:
vlad321 said:
LivingMetal said:


And this relates to the PS3 how...?  Besides, I'm pro-competition and anti-monopolistic.  Wasn't Microsoft found guilty of being monopolistic by the Department of Justice.  Oh, they were:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

So if we believe in competition, why are we supporting Microsoft?  But realistically, I don't use petty excuses to bash a company.  But being consistent with your own stance, you really shouldn't support Microsoft unless you're pro-monopolistic.  Or even Nintendo for that matter.  Former Nintendo head Yamauchi treated 3rd party developers like dirt back during the N64 days.  So why are you here anyway since you don't support Sony , Microsoft, and Nintendo?  They're all bad.


Ok let's use our 3 brain cells we have. rootkig coems form Sony, which makes PS3. Oh WOW! TWO degrees of separatoin. Unbelieveable.


And Microsoft was found guilty in court of being a monopoly who happens to make the Xbox 360.  Is that a reason why we shouldn't buy and enjoy an Xbox 360?


Did Microsoft compromise my PC?


Did they?  Why would I care and how would I know what Microsoft did to your stuff?  

Being informed I guess. Then again I am not surprised given you didn't know about the rootkits. I suggest you do that before engaging in arguments pertaining to consumer rights.


I knew about the rootkits.  You must have mistaken me for someone else.  Nowhere did I say nor imply I knew nothing about them.  Are you attempting to discredit me by lying because I made several valid logical points?



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dsister said:
o_O.Q said:

1. well we have to agree to disagree had he not posted the keys none of this would have happened thats more than enough of a reason for me to blame him

2. yes its very curious isn't it


1. Yeah, we would have only had piracy from the USB dongles and cheating that is about the same level as it is now? Wouldn't you agree?

Off topic: Looking up all the stuff about the CoD hacks is pretty funny, and just goes to show how incompetent Blizzard really is. It goes from, "It's all Sony's fault, we can't patch it" to "We may stop the BO servers!" to "Hey, look here's a patch to fix everything" xD 

1. agree

btw CoD isn't made by blizzard its published by activision and developed by infinity ward or treyarch



o_O.Q said:

1. agree

btw CoD isn't made by blizzard its published by activision and developed by infinity ward or treyarch


I can't be bothered to remember which dev made which game, and Activision and Blizzard are the same company. If you want to be technical the name of the company is Activision Blizzard. And I'm lazy, so it's faster to type out Blizzard than Activision. 



Sig thanks to Saber! :D 

LivingMetal said:
vlad321 said:
LivingMetal said:


Did they?  Why would I care and how would I know what Microsoft did to your stuff?  

Being informed I guess. Then again I am not surprised given you didn't know about the rootkits. I suggest you do that before engaging in arguments pertaining to consumer rights.


I knew about the rootkits.  You must have mistaken me for someone else.  Nowhere did I say nor imply I knew nothing about them.  Are you attempting to discredit me by lying because I made several valid logical points?


Let's see, talking about being against anti-consumer using root-kits then you completely miss the point. You are either uninformed, or your logic is all sorts of broken.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

dsister said:
brendude13 said:

Now that's just crossing a line.

Forget it, burn him at the stake too.


It's a group.

Fine then! Burn them all!



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LivingMetal said:


And this relates to the PS3 how...?  Besides, I'm pro-competition and anti-monopolistic.  Wasn't Microsoft found guilty of being monopolistic by the Department of Justice.  Oh, they were:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

So if we believe in competition, why are we supporting Microsoft?  But realistically, I don't use petty excuses to bash a company.  But being consistent with your own stance, you really shouldn't support Microsoft unless you're pro-monopolistic.  Or even Nintendo for that matter.  Former Nintendo head Yamauchi treated 3rd party developers like dirt back during the N64 days.  So why are you here anyway since you don't support Sony , Microsoft, and Nintendo?  They're all bad.

 

Wow, I never knew that Microsoft was in a court case that serious, I'm not surprised though, that's Microsoft all over, abusing their monopoly.



Kasz216 said:


 

It's called wikipedia bro.

 

"The disadvantage is that there is no protection once information protected as trade secret is uncovered by others through reverse engineering, for example, whereas patent has a guaranteed time of protection in exchange for disclosing the information to the public."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_secret#Definition

 

Again,  follow the rabbit trail a bit further.  I posted information before that you obviously missed or intentionally missed relating to specifically that.  Your selective reading is funny however.

 

§ 1832. Theft of trade secrets
(a) Whoever, with intent to convert a trade secret, that is related to or included in a product that is produced for or placed in interstate or foreign commerce, to the economic benefit of anyone other than the owner thereof, and intending or knowing that the offense will, injure any owner of that trade secret, knowingly—

(1) steals, or without authorization appropriates, takes, carries away, or conceals, or by fraud, artifice, or deception obtains such information;

(2) without authorization copies, duplicates, sketches, draws, photographs, downloads, uploads, alters, destroys, photocopies, replicates, transmits, delivers, sends, mails, communicates, or conveys such information;

(3) receives, buys, or possesses such information, knowing the same to have been stolen or appropriated, obtained, or converted without authorization;

(4) attempts to commit any offense described in paragraphs (1) through (3); or

(5) conspires with one or more other persons to commit any offense described in paragraphs (1) through (3), and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy,
shall, except as provided in subsection (b), be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both.
(b) Any organization that commits any offense described in subsection (a) shall be fined not more than $5,000,000.

 

 
The Uniform Trade Secrets Act (UTSA) is a model law drafted by the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws to better define rights and remedies of common law trade secret. It has been adopted by 46 states, the District of Columbia and the U.S. Virgin Islands. Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York and Texas have not adopted the UTSA

The act defines trade secret as information, including formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process that:

(i) derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to, and not being readily ascertainable by proper means by, other persons who can obtain economic value from its disclosure or use, and(ii) is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy.

 

 

Trade secrets only deal with employees... and only when those employees sign Non-disclosure acts.

No...They don't.  In fact, no where in the legal definition will you find anything like that.  You're pulling that out of your ass.  It simply has to be something that isn't readily obtainable by the general public.  (Which let's face it,  this wasn't at all). 

 

Though yeah... Companies sue people and get their way even when they're in the wrong ALL THE TIME. 

Again, Geohotz easily could have defended himself from this witch hunt (Especially with all the internet White Knights up in arms over it).  Then again,  there was some truth and dirt with the accusations that Sony levied and Geohot and his attorney knew it and took the easiest out they could.  

Sony gets rid of Geohot jailbreaking their systems publicly and Geohot doesn't have to continue playing a game of charades.

 



Geohotz took a trade secret from Sony and that is why the case went the way it did.



This thread is bursting with bad logic, but one sentiment really struck a nerve with me. The sentiment that two wrongs do not make a right is absolutely false. Sure it sounds good, but society most often practices the opposite, and views the end result as being right. I feel a example is called for. I think we all agree locking people into small rooms is wrong. I think we all agree that killing another human being is wrong. However that doesn't stop us from locking murderers in small rooms. Then considering the act to be right.

We fundamentally view punishment of a offender as a righteous act. The negative response is proportional to the crime. I see a lot of people advocating that Sony not be bound by consequences for its acts. I am sorry where others see overkill in the hackers attacks I see letting Sony just slide right by as being equally reprehensible. People talk about this being fought out in court. I think everyone knows that isn't exactly fair. People feeling victimized being forced to spend a great deal of money they do not have to fight a corporation with what amounts to bottomless wealth. You are not advocating for these people having a stand up fight. Your advocating that Sony has the right to bend someone over the table and rape them.

Perhaps I am more fairness minded then most. Seeing as neither side would readily fight a war in the middle ground that cannot be determined by wealth or technical skill. All I can say is this all things are fair in war. Soldiers fight in the way that gives them the greatest advantage. Computer hackers will hack, because that is what they are good at. Sony wants to litigate, because they have ungodly wealth to pay a army of lawyers. Technically speaking they are both very unsporting, Since both sides fight dirty I wouldn't get mired down in one being worse then the others.

What bothers me about this is the Sony break it mentality. Instead of finding a way to make something work. They just like to break things, because is saves time and money. I am sure there was a technical solution to their problem that would have allowed the console to retain a property it was sold on, and to address potential security concerns. There is a bad logic at play that says it is okay to break something that belongs to someone else to make life easier for you.

A lot of people in this thread are buying into this shitty logic. That it has to be all or nothing. I am sorry there is always a reasonable compromise that can be made, and if Sony had just tried to do that. Even had they failed Geohotz probably wouldn't have felt a need to jailbreak the PS3 in the first place, and none of this would have happened. More to the point it would have probably helped the public image of Sony.

When companies treat people fairly it usually results in good things. Valve has been hacked a number of times. That said however the hackers are usually caught. The reason is simple people really live Valve, and Valve really treats its customers with respect. So when Valve asks for help in finding hackers. Usually someone rats them out. Hacking into a Valve server is a pretty good way to find yourself in leg irons.

Sony should learn from this, and work towards getting more respect. Making people happy is just good business. Going out of your way to piss people off isn't going to bring good things. Going after Geohotz was just plain dumb. There was nothing that could be done at that point to put the genie back in the bottle. They wanted to make an example out of somebody, and that is just plain mean sprited.



LivingMetal said:
PakChiuCheng said:

Admit it. Most of you who are happy that Sony are being hacked and encourage this behaviour, defending the hackers are just fanboys of your respective consoles (Xbox/Wii)

QFT

Nobody here is defending the hacking. Just because people don't agree with Sony's bullying practices does not mean we are against them.



vlad321 said:
LivingMetal said:
vlad321 said:
LivingMetal said:


Did they?  Why would I care and how would I know what Microsoft did to your stuff?  

Being informed I guess. Then again I am not surprised given you didn't know about the rootkits. I suggest you do that before engaging in arguments pertaining to consumer rights.


I knew about the rootkits.  You must have mistaken me for someone else.  Nowhere did I say nor imply I knew nothing about them.  Are you attempting to discredit me by lying because I made several valid logical points?


Let's see, talking about being against anti-consumer using root-kits then you completely miss the point. You are either uninformed, or your logic is all sorts of broken.

 

Actually, you're the one missing the point.  if you want to make a stand and have your reasons, go right ahead.  It's your right.  If you want to associate rootkits with the PS3 just because both involve Sony, that's fine, too.  But you turn a blind eye to other companies such as Microsoft and Nintendo when they have done wrong in the past in which your logic to protest against Sony would also apply to them as I have logically and truthfully pointed out.  So besides being reasonable about it, it's all "BADSONYBADSONYBADSONY!" from you.  Hate clouds reasoning, and it seems your hate for Sony clouded your reasoning for the love of gaming in which Sony is a major part of.  My gain, your loss.