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Forums - Nintendo - Metroid: Other M - The Black Sheep....or so we thought

Mr Khan said:
LordTheNightKnight said:
Mr Khan said:
cr00mz said:

my biggest problem with the game was that it always tells you where to go, similar to fusion. And second the combat. first playthough i kinda liked it. it was cool fast and especially the sensemove made you feel like samus. Agile and acrobatic.

Second playthrough i was kinda "ey this game sort of reminds me of God of War and ninja gaiden and all those other button mashers."

The shooting in the Prime games are not a whole lot better though, but atleast there is something else besides shooting and general button mashyness.

I loved the Scan visor in Metroid Prime, scanning animals, plants, enemies and reading up on them.

Other M wasnt all bad, but it was far from great

Thing is Prime always told you where to go as well, the only thing Other M and Fusion do above that is hand you the map (and the map was still available in Prime as well, but you had to get it yourself)


You can turn that off on the options screen.

I fail to see how that effects anything


You fail to see that the word "always" implies you cannot turn it off, when that factually is incorrect? Furthermore, the Prime games don't have just one path for every destination (although admittedly the third game did that the most).



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LordTheNightKnight said:
Mr Khan said:
LordTheNightKnight said:


You can turn that off on the options screen.

I fail to see how that effects anything


You fail to see that the word "always" implies you cannot turn it off, when that factually is incorrect? Furthermore, the Prime games don't have just one path for every destination (although admittedly the third game did that the most).

Fine, fine. I'll rescind that it was "always" on, though Prime did indeed usually have just one path to a given destination when you were first required to go to that destination, where it excelled compared to Prime's 2 and 3 was that once you opened the map up, it was riddled with all sorts of shortcuts, but such shortcuts were generally unavailable during your first trip through a given area



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RolStoppable said:
Mr Khan said:

Fine, fine. I'll rescind that it was "always" on, though Prime did indeed usually have just one path to a given destination when you were first required to go to that destination, where it excelled compared to Prime's 2 and 3 was that once you opened the map up, it was riddled with all sorts of shortcuts, but such shortcuts were generally unavailable during your first trip through a given area

Echoes was pretty similar in regards to that, it may just be that you didn't play the game long/often enough to notice them all.

Corruption had certainly less of those shortcuts, but the game had a different structure. Instead of elevators you used the ship which usually meant that you weren't passing through the same corridors and rooms several times, thus the need for such shortcuts wasn't really necessary in most instances. Out of the three games, Corruption by far has the most sections you only go through once.

Within the separate worlds i suppose you're right. I was remembering the comparatively poor inter-world shortcuts (only one elevator each between the worlds directly if you wanted to bypass the overworld)



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RolStoppable said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Airas said:

I still do not understand what you mean by this. What exactly is the general path in Metroid? The only times I remember the game following a path are at the very beginning and at the very end, in the area with the Metroids before the final boss. Everything else is pretty much a blank slate.

Meaning the path has limitations based on your item upgrades.  In order to gain access to Norfair, you need the High Jump Boots.  In order to progress in Norfair, you need the Super Bomb to open doors.  Its pretty straight-forward how the game wants you to progress.  yes, you do get to explore to find the items.  But there are set roadblocks to keep you from going to a new area or boss.

In Prime on the other hand, you enter countless areas that require certain items (Super Missile, Power Bomb, Spider Ball, Grapple Beam) but you can't enter those areas for upwards of 10 hours after you find them.  I was mearly saying Metroid Prime is too focused on 'free roaming exploration' to the point that it went beyond the balance Super Metroid had in progression and exploration.

My OVERALL point is that people need to sto complaining about Other M being 'too linear' while claiming all the other games are 'total free roaming'.  They have set roadblocks and do not allow you to roam freely unless you get certain items.

You don't even know what sequence breaking is. It describes intentionally breaking the set path of the game by picking up key items long before you are supposed to get them. Metroid Prime does have a set path, it's just that the game at times makes you go back and forth a lot, but that is intentional design. You are supposed to reach Phendrana Drifts without the Super Missile and the Boost Ball the first time. Hell, the Super Missile and Boost Ball ARE both located in Phendrana Drifts, so how is this supposed to be a good example? No offense, but ridiculously stupid would be more fitting. Now I am going to tell you how similar Super and Prime actually are.

Phendrana Drifts is one area you will revisit a lot of times. The first time you'll collect the Boost Ball, go back to Tallon Overworld for the Space Jump only to go back to Phendrana again to gain the Wave Beam. That's followed by collecting the Super Missile and the Thermal Visor and beating Thardus (all located in Phendrana). After getting the Spider Ball from Thardus you go to Chozo Ruins to find the Ice Beam which you are going to use in Phendrana again in order to get the Gravity Suit which you need in Tallon Overworld to make it through the Wrecked Ship. Later on you return to Phendrana for your fourth visit overall to collect the Chozo artifacts.

Norfair is one area you will revisit a lot of times. The first time you'll collect the Hi-Jump Boots, go back to Brinstar to defeat Kraid for the Varia Suit. Back to Norfair to collect the Speed Booster and Ice Beam only to got back to Brinstar again to find the Power Bombs. Immediately back to Norfair to find the Grapple Beam which you need to access the Wrecked Ship where the Gravity Suit is located. Once you've gotten the Space Jump from Maridia you go to Norfair for the fourth time in order to access the depths where Ridley is located.

You see, there isn't much of a difference in terms of roadblocks and "going out of your way" between Super Metroid and Metroid Prime. Just like it doesn't take long in both games to reach Norfair and Phendrana Drifts for the first time, it takes long and repeated trips in both games until you've done everything important in these two areas.

Yes I do know what sequence breaking is.  What I said was Metroid Prime is confusing and FORCES you to look for ways to get around the main path.  Because the 'main path' is hardly viable.

My first time playing Super Metroid, I followed nearly the same path as I have the 20 times I have played it since.  And even when I actively went looking for other ways to progress, I still found I needed to stop at the same areas, at the same times.  Whereas in Prime, you can end up going between Chozo Ruins and Pandera Rifts a dozen or so times your first play of the game.  And your explination of the path for Prime is definitely from someone who has played the games multiple times, not the avg experience of someone first time through.  Even people I know have QUIT Prime because they couldn't figure out what to do next.

And in the end, this is all just another way to say Other M sucks because its linear.  While I wouldn't mind then allowing you to explore more for items, them telling you the main areas to go is not a negative.  As someone has already pointed out, they do the same thing in Prime.  Yet just because you choose to turn off the hints, doesn't mean everyone else does.  I kind of think its a good idea for people who aren't willing to spend hours trying to explore the world.  Yet they could have done more in Fusion and Other M to allow for exploration for those who do like to explore.

Also, I don't like your constant implication to people that the reason they have a certain opinion is they haven't played the games enough.  If anything, that just cements my point that the people who claim Super/Prime are the best is because they've played them dozens of times and know all the ways to sequence break and speed up the game.  But even myself, who's played every Metroid game and Prime some 5 times, gets lost.  You may have memorized Prime inside and out.  But I still contend its a rather confusing game with lots of backtracking.  Moreso than any of the 2D Metroids.



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RolStoppable said:

Metroid Prime's main path consists of going back and forth, just like is the case with Super Metroid. The reason why you find Prime confusing and not Super, is because you played the latter much more often.

I refuse to keep talking to someone who makes assumptions of my opinion and then claims that's my argument.  Even after I've stated I've palyed Metroid Prime 5 different times.

That and I've expressed my view some 10 times now in this thread and its pointless to keep arguing.



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Kenryoku_Maxis said:
theRepublic said:

See my post above on the gameplay of Other M.  Yes, some items are missing from Prime.  Instead, it puts more empashis on using the right weapon at the right time.  Other M is a lot more limited when it comes to your beams.  None of the upgrades feel any different.  They get more powerful, but not much more than that.  With the 2D games and Prime, there were big differences between the beams.

I disagree that Prime forced you to explore more than the 2D games.  Super and the original, especially the original, had an even heavier focus on exploration than the Prime games had.  Many pathways, and little to no direction in the 2D games.  Other M had just about zero exploration, and always told you were to go.

The beam upgrades in Other M are just as important as Prime.  Some areas you can't even progress without the Ice or Diffusion Beams.  Or are you going to tell me you would have been able to fight the Hive Boss in Sector 1 without the Diffusion beam killing 5 enemies at once.  Or you'd enjoy running through Sector 3 without the Ice Beam freezing all the maga enemies.  I thought not.

Also, like Mr. Kahn said, I didn't play the game on hard mode, so I don't feel the same as you.  But you could easily make the same argument for Nina Gaiden on hard.  Yet no one is complaining about 'limited gameplay and dodging all day' in that game.  Because its SUPPOSE to be hard.

And frankly, I'm tired of hearing about how Prime is a godly game because it has the most exploration of any of the games.  I already explained how it detracted from my experience, while in Super (and yes, even the original), there is a general path you are suppose to go, even if you want to explore outside that path.  Prime was like sitting in a giant 3D world constantly going 'Should I go in that room *scan everything*.....no, I don't have Grapple beam yet.  How about this room *scan everything*...no, I don't have super bombs.  How about this room *scan everything*...no, I don't have Spider ball yet....'  That's not fun exploration.  That's forced exploration that just makes you frustrated.  It gets old real fast.

Also, as I keep saying, I'm not going to say Other M was the best in progression or item finding.  But you people always take it to the extreme saying 'Zero Pick up items'.  You lose all credibility when you take something to such an extreme that even casual players of the game know you're wrong.  There was even NEW pick up items in this game, including energy parts, 'Accel Charge' to speed up the charging of your Charge Beam and 'E-Recovery units' to improve your concentration.  Yes, they felt easier to find, but please stop trying to claim there's nothing there.  Especially compared to Prime, which is missing key items and basically came down to collecting nothing but Missle Upgrades and Energy Packs outside of the main items.

I didn't say they weren't important, I said they didn't do much to change the way you play the game.  Before you get any of the upgrades you spend the vast majority of battles dodging and releasing the autocharge you just got after the dodge.  After you get any of the power ups...you do the same thing.  Now it just takes less shots, and you can freeze some enemies.  Whereas in Metroid, Super, and the Prime games, earning new beams actually changes how you approach the game.

Yes, there is a general path you are supposed to follow...in all Metroid games.  Why you can't see it in the Prime games I have no idea.  It is much more evident than in Metroid or Super.  The real difference between Other M and everything else is that the other games encourage you to explore.  You use your new abilities to explore areas you haven't been able to reach yet, or pick up items you couldn't reach the first time.  For the most part, that incentive is missing in Other M.

Let's go back to the "general path" thing for a moment.  While that path in Other M is completely obvious, Super and especially Metroid offer many paths for you to take at once.  Only one is the correct way to go to advance the game, but it gives you a lot to explore.  The are so many ways to go in Metroid that you can explore for hours without getting much of anywhere.  I should know, I've done it.

The game doesn't have any health or missile refills.  The enemies don't drop anything.  On hard mode, the game doesn't have power ups either.  You have to beat the whole game with a max of 10 missiles, and no extended health bar.  No Accel Charge or E-Recovery Tanks either.  So, why are you trying to say I lose credibility?



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OneTwoThree said:
theRepublic said:
OneTwoThree said:

You all make it sound like it's a consensus that Other M was a worse game. I haven't played the full game yet, but I can already say I enjoy the gameplay very much, while I didn't like the Prime parts. 

What Prime parts?  There is nothing in Other M that is like the Prime games.  If you mean the parts where the game forces you into first person to look at some specific part of the environment or makes you go to first person to fire a missile and freezes you in place, then I agree, those parts were not very good.

No, what I wanted to say was that I didn't enjoy the Metroid Prime games. I tried Prime 1 and Corruption, and they're just not for me. I don't like the first person perspective, and the depressing atmosphere, and the scanning and everything. Other M is the kind of Metroid game I'd play.

Maybe it's because Prime 1-3 were made outside of Japan. I found that I prefer Japan made Nintendo games. Not a fan of outsourcing to the US. I haven't tried DKCR yet, though.

That's cool.  Everyone has their preferences.  I like Other M as a game, too.  I just don't like it as a Metroid game.



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gumby_trucker said:
theRepublic said:

Did you play Other M on hard mode?  It really boils the game down to the developers vision.  It plays nothing like the 2D games.  You spend most of your time spamming the dodge, and the fact that there are zero pick-ups really sticks out.  It forces you to play it "station-to-station", since you are just trying to get to the next save point to refill your health.  As a consequence, it makes it very clear just how linear the game is.  They really isn't very much platforming in Other M either.  It is probably about the same amount as in any of the Prime games.

I can't really argue with this point since I never played Other M on hard mode either, but I was just wondering what gave you the impression that hard mode was closer to the developer's vision than normal mode?

If the developer did indeed say as much then I would go back and try the game on hard mode so I could get a better idea of where you're coming from. From what I've heard about that mode (no pick-ups etc) it would indeed sound less like a Metroid game and more like a regular action game like DMC...

It is debatable, but I think it is the case because hard mode seemed to put an emphasis on everything "new" about the game.  The Sensemove and Concentration* have to be done constantly.  Those two moves are the whole reason that none of the enemies drop health or missile pick ups.  Tack on the fact that there are no health expansions in hard mode and it just emphasizes those even more.  Lethal Strikes also become important because they can end battles so much faster.

(*Concentration is "new" because Super's Crystal Flash doesn't count.  No one knew about that! )



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Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Phoeniks.Wright said:

Although I have never played Metroid other M, I have seen a good chunk of it on Youtube, and having played through the Metroid prime trilogy, Fusion and only played the original, but never finished, all I can say is that MOM is a pretty bad Metroid game.

Yeah, because 'lets play' videos aren't bias in any way....

I will admit, Other M is nowhere near the best Metroid game.  But the gameplay and design was still good.  Its just the story and forced real-time events that hurt the game.  If the story was handled more like Fusion, it probably would have been much better.

Phoeniks.Wright said:

@OP: True, it might crawl it's way to 1-1.5 million sales, but when you compare the userbase sizes, it should be expected, no? And even if it did make Nintendo money, the point was to make Metroid more popular with this direction, but not only did that fail, it probably alienated quite a bit of Metroid fans, like me. They should look back to what made Metroid a hit in the beginning.

How can it have alienated you if you didn't play it...

And that brings up another point.  Most of the people I see say the game was horrible was people who either didn't play it or had a negative opinion about it before they did.

I won't deny the series took a backwards step from what the fanbase wants.  But that doesn't mean the entire series is crap just because you didn't like (or didn't play) one game in the series.  That's like saying all Future Zelda games are bad because of Twilight Princess or all Mario games are bad because of Mario Sunshine.  Sometimes Nintendo tries something new and it doesn't work.

Sure, I didn't play it, but looking at the videos, and you can find ones where the guy just plays, no commentary, I saw 3 things which just shouldn't be here: an over-reliance on missiles, it's almost as if it was the standard beam it's used that much; the cutscenes with the characterisation of Samus. The quicker they get rid of this and forget about it, the better. And finally, you're exploring a metallic hub ship or whatnot. It is boring, very boring. In metroiod and the prime games, I'm actually exploring a planet, which offers such diverse locations, I was in awe when I played them, especially prime 1. Here, it's just "meh, some slightly different metal pieces".

I also don't think the entire series is crap, just that this game is horrible, and it looks that it's not going to get much better from this.



Phoeniks.Wright said:
Kenryoku_Maxis said:
Phoeniks.Wright said:

Although I have never played Metroid other M, I have seen a good chunk of it on Youtube, and having played through the Metroid prime trilogy, Fusion and only played the original, but never finished, all I can say is that MOM is a pretty bad Metroid game.

Yeah, because 'lets play' videos aren't bias in any way....

I will admit, Other M is nowhere near the best Metroid game.  But the gameplay and design was still good.  Its just the story and forced real-time events that hurt the game.  If the story was handled more like Fusion, it probably would have been much better.

Phoeniks.Wright said:

@OP: True, it might crawl it's way to 1-1.5 million sales, but when you compare the userbase sizes, it should be expected, no? And even if it did make Nintendo money, the point was to make Metroid more popular with this direction, but not only did that fail, it probably alienated quite a bit of Metroid fans, like me. They should look back to what made Metroid a hit in the beginning.

How can it have alienated you if you didn't play it...

And that brings up another point.  Most of the people I see say the game was horrible was people who either didn't play it or had a negative opinion about it before they did.

I won't deny the series took a backwards step from what the fanbase wants.  But that doesn't mean the entire series is crap just because you didn't like (or didn't play) one game in the series.  That's like saying all Future Zelda games are bad because of Twilight Princess or all Mario games are bad because of Mario Sunshine.  Sometimes Nintendo tries something new and it doesn't work.

Sure, I didn't play it, but looking at the videos, and you can find ones where the guy just plays, no commentary, I saw 3 things which just shouldn't be here: an over-reliance on missiles, it's almost as if it was the standard beam it's used that much; the cutscenes with the characterisation of Samus. The quicker they get rid of this and forget about it, the better. And finally, you're exploring a metallic hub ship or whatnot. It is boring, very boring. In metroiod and the prime games, I'm actually exploring a planet, which offers such diverse locations, I was in awe when I played them, especially prime 1. Here, it's just "meh, some slightly different metal pieces".

I also don't think the entire series is crap, just that this game is horrible, and it looks that it's not going to get much better from this.

You rely on Missiles a LOT more in games like Metroid II, Fusion and Prime than in Other M.  You can actually beat nearly every boss just with charge beam, aside from probably the Queen Metroid (which takes a Super Bomb) and MB, which does focus on missiles.

Heck, you can even defeat Nightmare and Phantoon with just Charge Beams.  It'll take longer, but you can.

And while I've said dozens of times that Other M could have been more open ended and allow for more exploration, its not as bad as you guys make it out to be.  Each area is very distinct and each Sector mimics the same areas as in Super Metroid.  The only 'Metalic' focused areas are Main Sector and Sector 0.  Hell, I could even argue there's more 'metalic' style areas in Prime and Fusion than in Other M.

I still contend that you can't call a game crap without having played it.



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