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Forums - Nintendo - wii 2 confirmed

epicberserk on 25 April 2011
noname2200 said:
epicberserk said:

june come faster i want to witness the project cafe ... oh fuck i just remembered damn u direct tv :( no g4 i wana cry

Just stream it online. Nintendo streams its own conference, and sites like Gametrailers and IGN stream content throughout E3. If you've got broadband, you'll be fine!

oh ok thanks



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psrock on 25 April 2011
padib said:
psrock said:
noname2200 said:
Play4Fun said:

He just makes arguments without taking the market and tech into account.

PS4 will be a powerhouse, 10-20x more powerful than Wii 2. What about development costs? What about not wanting to bleed to much money like they did this gen? How do they put the kind of tech required for that in a box without melting it due to overheating?

 

Obviously I share your concerns, but that doesn't make him a fanboy by any stretch. I think he's wrong about this topic, yes, but he has a history of being reasonable.

Actually, I'm not sure I really think that he is wrong about what Sony and Microsoft will do. I just know that the results will be uglier than this year's NCAA basketball championship game, so I'm really hoping that he's wrong. It certainly doesn't seem like a rational course of action.

If I wrong I will take it like man, but I know  Sony, they don't care much about losing money on consoles. 

All you have to do is look at the NGP. This handheld will have hardware no other machine will have yet. It's as cutting edge as you get. And that's the PSP successor, think of a PS3 successor. 

dude, you don't form a trend on two dots, that's a line. To form a trend you need many cases. If you actually look at the trend since PS, Sony was not cutting edge, rather it was Nintendo, and then Microsoft. E.g.:

N64 >> PS   (64-bit >> 32-bit for most purposes - ignore the Jaguar for a sec :P )

XBOX> GC > PS2 (let's not argue on this one, anyone long enough following the industry long enough knows this one)

surprise

PS3 > XBOX360 > Wii   => AN EXCEPTION (Temporary change of philophy at NIntendo: drastic times call for drastic measures profit suicide at SONY and MS headquarters for a greater mission)

The handhelds are a totally different story (GB/DS was always the least powerful in its generation)

So, to thing PS4 >> P-NES, I think that's not only a stretch, not only does it not reflect the technology trend as pointed by others (Heating, Moore's law, dev costs, etc.), but it doesn't even make sense from a VG-history perspective.

Let's stop arguing this one, it's pointless. We pretty much have a sort of consensus here that the PS4 will be only slightly better than the P-NES. Good enough?

fair enough. You do make a good point except the last one. 



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
Kynes on 25 April 2011
psrock said:
...

The PSP had nothing  to improve on though, but please show how conservative the NGP is?


It's conservative in the same way the PS3 was revolutionary. It uses an homogeneous and known architecture, really tested in phones/music players/tablets, only with more functional units.



Play4Fun on 25 April 2011
psrock said:
Play4Fun said:
psrock said:
Play4Fun said:
psrock said:
Play4Fun said:
noname2200 said:
Play4Fun said:

I step into this thread and find people wasting their time arguing with a Sony fanboy.

Why do people waste their time like this?

Who, psrock? He clearly favors Sony, and he makes no bones about it, but he's hardly a fanboy.

He just makes arguments without taking the market and tech into account.

PS4 will be a powerhouse, 10-20x more powerful than Wii 2. What about development costs? What about not wanting to bleed to much money like they did this gen? How do they put the kind of tech required for that in a box without melting it due to overheating?

And then there's teh DreamCast thing. Most people seem ignorant on what caused Sega's downfall. The early launch was only a small part of it.

It's Sony we are talking about right? 

Sony always want to drive technology, trust me by 2013 when this thing comes out, tablets will be more powerful than PS3 or 360. If you think Sony is not going to be cutting edge, then you are not paying attention to this company. 

I owned the Dreamcast, I know why it fell apart, the games were amazing, but even had Sega stayed in the market, the Dreamcast could never compete with the ps2 when it comes to support. 

Hardware power isn't the only way to push technology. have you seen NGP? Do you see the areas it pushes technology in? Sony will send out a powerful console but they will have to be more conservative because of problems third party devs are going through and they  will push tech into other areas, like system features and 3D.

How many devs do you see pushing PC hardware? IF Sony comes out with something as powerul as high end consoles (they can't because of overheating) devs aren't going to try to push it. They will develop on less expensive hardware and upport to their console.

 


How do have the nerve to call me out and say the NGP is conservative. 

Please show where ? 


The PSP was more of a powerhouse for its time than the NGP is. The biggest way NGP improves over PSP in hardware is all its control input options.

The PSP had nothing  to improve on though, but please show how conservative the NGP is?


Damnit. I said the PSP was more of a powerhouse for its time than NGP. It didn't include a bunch of control inputs in it like NGP (oled screen, the touch screens, blah blah) . There was more incentive/space/options/whatever  to put money into hardware. The NGP is more conservative hardware power-wise than PSP was. THe NGP is pushing much more than just tech compared to PSP.

Look at how much more powerful the PSP was to DS compared to how much more powerful NGP is compared to 3DS.

PS4 and 720 WILL be more powerful than Wii 2 (like GC and XBOX were more powerful than PS2 and N64 >PS1 and PS3 >360) but they'll be on more equal grounds and all be able to share ports.

That is all. I need to get some sleep.



psrock on 25 April 2011
Kynes said:
psrock said:
...

The PSP had nothing  to improve on though, but please show how conservative the NGP is?


It's conservative in the same way the PS3 was revolutionary. It uses an homogeneous and known architecture, really tested in phones/music players/tablets, only with more functional units.

The PS3 was not revolutionary, it was very powerful and loaed with technology. The NGP will be at least a Generation ahead of everyone else, it will bring graphics only seen on consoles before and no one  will able to come close for a while. 



 Next Gen 

11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
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Kynes on 25 April 2011
psrock said:
Kynes said:
psrock said:
...

The PSP had nothing  to improve on though, but please show how conservative the NGP is?


It's conservative in the same way the PS3 was revolutionary. It uses an homogeneous and known architecture, really tested in phones/music players/tablets, only with more functional units.

The PS3 was not revolutionary, it was very powerful and loaed with technology. The NGP will be at least a Generation ahead of everyone else, it will bring graphics only seen on consoles before and no one  will able to come close for a while. 

It was revolutionary in it's concept. Heterogeneous processor,  with two different instructions sets, two different memory types, one of them serial, one of them parallel, at very different speeds and with very different latencies. That's revolutionary because it imposed a different approach to the development.

 

NGP will use a chip very similar to two A5's fused together, so a lot of developers will be familiar with it's architecture.



psrock on 25 April 2011
Kynes said:
psrock said:
Kynes said:
psrock said:
...

The PSP had nothing  to improve on though, but please show how conservative the NGP is?


It's conservative in the same way the PS3 was revolutionary. It uses an homogeneous and known architecture, really tested in phones/music players/tablets, only with more functional units.

The PS3 was not revolutionary, it was very powerful and loaed with technology. The NGP will be at least a Generation ahead of everyone else, it will bring graphics only seen on consoles before and no one  will able to come close for a while. 

It was revolutionary in it's concept. Heterogeneous processor,  with two different instructions sets, two different memory types, one of them serial, one of them parallel, at very different speeds and with very different latencies. That's revolutionary because it imposed a different approach to the development.

 

NGP will use a chip very similar to two A5's fused together, so a lot of developers will be familiar with it's architecture.

A conservative move would have been a dual core like A5, a  little more memory and the better control. It would have been still the most powerful handheld . And don't confuse the Cell being a migraine to deal with as being revolutionary. 



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11/20/09 04:25 makingmusic476 Warning Other (Your avatar is borderline NSFW. Please keep it for as long as possible.)
superchunk on 25 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
superchunk said:

ok, I see what you mean.

I think those have simply written off Wii due to my previous posts. 3DS is a new system and a handheld.

I won't let you off the hook so easily. 3DS/Wii multiplatform development would be very cost effective, because it basically just means porting a game that the third party in question was going to make anyway, for a Nintendo system no less. Why pass this chance to serve some starved Wii owners up?

The previous reasoning why we didn't see more big games for the Wii was that it would require games being built from the ground up specifically for this one platform, because it wasn't possible to easily port between systems. Now with the 3DS a new variable gets added to the mix and the biggest restriction to leave out the Wii does not exist anymore. It's also not too late to make Wii games. Don't tell me this isn't making you question the conclusions you drew previously.

Your probably right in the 3DS/Wii case, however, 3DS has only been out for a month. Kinda early to make these kind of statements. However, I don't think it will happen due to Wii being written off and even though they are similar, there still are additional costs incurred that the 3rd parties simply won't do. Especially now that a new system is on the horizon.



superchunk on 25 April 2011
psrock said:
padib said:
Kynes said:
I can assure you something, Café will be more powerful than Wii comparatively, and PS4/X720 will be less powerful than their precedents comparatively.

People, instead of debating this ad nauseam, I think we can take what Kynes said here to be the most realistic scenario.

Given that the Wii is a generation behind the PS3/360, and given Nintendo's traditional track record on home consoles (SNES, 64, Cube), they would now be developing a console on par with the PS4/720. In the track record, the Wii is the only exception, and it was for philosophical reasons, but now their strategy is shifting back to making rocking hardware performance-wise, so I think it would be fair to say we're looking for a Wii3 level of performance here, since Wii was essentially Gamecube 1.2 (i.e. you need to skip a gen for this Nintendo round, or think of it as if Wii2 never existed). In other words, next gen will, performance-wise, be very similar to last gen, but this time:

PS2 is played by the Nintendo Dream

GC/XBOX are played by PS4/720

And who won last time? A-there you go.

It's always great to act like the dreamcast never happened which is very similar to what Nintendo is doing.


DC? lol seriosly? DC didn't follow a leader in anything. DC was prices WAY above its competitors with no advantage or 3rd party support.

There is no comparison beyond a screen in the remote.... and even in that they are massively different.



superchunk on 25 April 2011
RolStoppable said:
superchunk said:

Your probably right in the 3DS/Wii case, however, 3DS has only been out for a month. Kinda early to make these kind of statements. However, I don't think it will happen due to Wii being written off and even though they are similar, there still are additional costs incurred that the 3rd parties simply won't do. Especially now that a new system is on the horizon.

You mean kinda late for third parties to make use of that potential, because they've been working on the 3DS since about a year at least. They wanted easy ports, now the opportunity is there.

Why do you play the apologist for third parties? Hangover from the Easter weekend?

lol, no I just don't think they ignore the Wii out of spite and evil but more for what they percieve as sound financial decisions since they already have solid markets in home consoles.

Do I agree with them? no, I think they should have built the dev tools to make money off of Wii's massive userbase... especially knowing the 3DS was launching.