@DélioPT:

How does God intend to control every aspect of our lives when we were given freedom to choose?

You're given the freedom to choose whatever he wants you to choose, else he'll send you straight to hell.

Well, seeing as he is the Creator of all things, in a sense He has a right to decide things. Dictators didn`t create life.

If he gave people free will, he better make it worthwhile to have it.

Irrational oppressive rules? Well seeing as Jesus never obligated anyone of his followers but asked them to join them and seeing that He even died for us because of love.

He died because he commited an illegal act in his time.

Does God expect something of us. Yes He does. Does He force anyone to do it? No. People choose what they want to do.

And he makes sure to punish anyone who doesn't listen to him, no?

To the comments above, one thing is saying that religions are against homosexuality and another is they are against homosexuals. Unfortunately, many, many people (religious people aswell), don`t separate these two and thus give the impression that there isn`t a difference there when there is. What religions aim for is to be people to correct their ways thus fighting sin/temptation and not the person who sins. When people don`t see this separation, then they are doing something that they shouldn`t.

And here is a perfect example of the oppressive rules I'm talking about. THERE IS NOTHIGN WRONG WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. Homosexuals can't help being homosexual, like heterosexuals can't help being heterosexual, and homosexuals should not be demeaned because they are the way they are, nor should they be denied the right to be happy in homosexual relationships. Your religion ruins lives regarding this issue, and people like you don't realise all the harm you're causing.

For some reason i can`t quote now...

"You're given the freedom to choose whatever he wants you to choose, else he'll send you straight to hell."

That`s like saying freedom is having no freedom. Just because something has consequences it means there is no freedom? It`s still a choice.
In a world of right or wrong, one is accepting God, the other is rejecting, so what do you expect?

“He died because he commited an illegal act in his time”
You speak of results not of motivations.

“And he makes sure to punish anyone who doesn't listen to him, no?”
As before, what do you expect? When you reject Him would you still like anything good to happen to you? How can that happen if you don`t accept Him in the first place.
It`s like breaking a rule, being punished for it and compleining about being punished.

“And here is a perfect example of the oppressive rules I'm talking about. THERE IS NOTHIGN WRONG WITH HOMOSEXUALITY. Homosexuals can't help being homosexual, like heterosexuals can't help being heterosexual, and homosexuals should not be demeaned because they are the way they are, nor should they be denied the right to be happy in homosexual relationships. Your religion ruins lives regarding this issue, and people like you don't realise all the harm you're causing.”
There`s nothing for someone who doesn`t have a belief in God. Every single person on this planet faces temptations, even harder ones like drug addictions and alcohol. And that`s something that people can fight if they want to.
Just because they aren`t hurting anyone else phisically or spiritually, doesn`t mean there`s nothing wrong with it.
If it`s not homosexuality it`s something else that people will claim that it`s their hapiness doing this or that, but religion doesn`t work like that. I am sure some people even get mad as i said, it`s nor personnal, it`s something that religions see as being wrong and therefore they can`t aprove.

1. Isn't that just blackmail. You have freedom, choice and the ability to hold opinions... but you must share and follow my opinions or else I'll make you suffer...

That sounds more like a bully and dictator to me. I think this is where the view that Saphi had of not following god (if he exists) comes from. There is no benevolence in this attitude. A person doesn't need to believe in god to be morally just, yet they would be punished regardless? Do you honestly think that an atheists have less morals than a believer?

2. You aren't born addicted to drugs or alcohol. Homosexuals are born gay. Would you be against homosexuality if it wasn't in the bible? Aren't your moral values being dictated to?

And again, why does not believing automatically equate to there being "nothing" for them.

Actually, he refferenced Richard Dawkins who is a noted Atheist, I only just paraphrased Dawkins position since I own a copy of his book "The God Delusion" and was able to summarize his point.

I may be coming off a bit wrong here then if your saying that I'm saying Atheists' believe in a powerless deity. No, the argument is meant to give an example of how powerless the theist deities are to the point where tangible attribution becomes non importable. It's an argument geared at miracle works which is a selling point for faith, which attempts to to make a claim to secret knowledge in a probability game using the same emotions involved when a person says maybe not knowing the odds: "well what are the odds?"

Suddenly I'm happy I didn't stick with satire on that response, explaining everything away like an old Victorian cartoon only to kill the joke.

Sorry for the post above also; I was in a rush.

Religion is an ideology, it can be discussed, unlike race. What's there to say about skin colour? Not much. Ideology is a choice, that can be right or wrong, so it is normal it sparks debate, as we have seen in this thread. Religion is not untouchable, of course it's not the same arguing against religion and arguing against race. And religious people bash atheists all the time, too.

Personally, I don't participate in these debates usually, because there is no end. I don't care if someone is religious of not unless it affects me directly somehow. I respect it and expect respect, that's it.

@Scoobes

1. Isn't that just blackmail. You have freedom, choice and the ability to hold opinions... but you must share and follow my opinions or else I'll make you suffer...

That sounds more like a bully and dictator to me. I think this is where the view that Saphi had of not following god (if he exists) comes from. There is no benevolence in this attitude. A person doesn't need to believe in god to be morally just, yet they would be punished regardless? Do you honestly think that an atheists have less morals than a believer?

2. You aren't born addicted to drugs or alcohol. Homosexuals are born gay. Would you be against homosexuality if it wasn't in the bible? Aren't your moral values being dictated to?

And again, why does not believing automatically equate to there being "nothing" for them."

1. Blackmail? Doesn`t blackmail force you to go down one route for the sake of the one that is blackmailing? In religion, all his given to people for their own decisions and their own hapiness aswell.
How can even something like that even be seriously considered when Jesus died for our sins so we can have salvation? Doesn`t that show how loving God is - even if you don`t believe.
Thing is, one could say that if you are good, love and caring, aren`t you really on God`s side? But there also needs to be the recognition that He is the reason for all.
No benevolence? Only if you are already dead, cause till the very last breath you can find salvation. It`s not a lack of goodness. Who`s talking about having more or less morals? It`s about God`s ways, not morals.

2. Actually no. More than once i saw people claiming that even them thought they were gay, live in a gay "world" (his words not mine) for years only to find out that they weren`t gay at all.
I don`t remember homosexuality being in the Bible.
"Being dictated" is an expression that doesn`t encompass faith. God doesn`t force anyone to believe nor would He want anyone to be forced to. People open up themselves to God not because how pretty the ethical system or to play safe because in the end it woudn`t cut it, but because they feel Him in their hearts.

Faith is a gift that people receive when they open their hearts to God. If you don`t open, or at least even try to, then you are pretty much saying that you don`t want Him. It`s the same with love. If you don`t open yourself to someone like a friend or a lover you are rejecting what he/she has to offer you, so why resent the consequences? If you don`t give, what do you expect to recieve?

God bless us all, every one.

@DélioPT:

That`s like saying freedom is having no freedom. Just because something has consequences it means there is no freedom? It`s still a choice.
In a world of right or wrong, one is accepting God, the other is rejecting, so what do you expect?

Since God controls everything, things have consequences because he makes it so. Also, there are things who genuenly have no negative consequences (homosexuality for example), and the only reason you consider it to be wrong is "because God says so" (in other words you're following someone's whim, not to mention a someone who doesn't even exist, but that's beside the point).

Also, Scoobes accurately described my views better then I did. This whole situation is blackmail. It's no different then someone pointing a gun at you and saying "do what I say or I'll blow your brais out". Sure, you have a choice: submit or die.

You speak of results not of motivations.

I was more talking of the motivations for his death. I also don't see how he died for anyone other than for his own crime (or percieved crime). This whole part of the Christian religion always seemed ridiculous me. If God (who damned humanity in the first place, for the mistake of only two people, the benevolent guy that he is) decided he wanted to forgive them, this whole Juses thing was really unnecessary.

As before, what do you expect? When you reject Him would you still like anything good to happen to you? How can that happen if you don`t accept Him in the first place.
It`s like breaking a rule, being punished for it and compleining about being punished.

Again, he made the rules. He wants people to suffer if they don't want to be under his control.

There`s nothing for someone who doesn`t have a belief in God. Every single person on this planet faces temptations, even harder ones like drug addictions and alcohol. And that`s something that people can fight if they want to.
Just because they aren`t hurting anyone else phisically or spiritually, doesn`t mean there`s nothing wrong with it.
If it`s not homosexuality it`s something else that people will claim that it`s their hapiness doing this or that, but religion doesn`t work like that. I am sure some people even get mad as i said, it`s nor personnal, it`s something that religions see as being wrong and therefore they can`t aprove.

Unlike taking drugs or drinking alcohol, homosexuality isn't harmful, quite the contrary, a same sex relationship brings happiness to a homosexual. And if no one is hurt "physically or spiritually" then what reason could you popssibly have to deny people happiness and make them hate themselves? This would make your God downright evil and a bully, making people hate themselves and feel ugly (something which his followers do quite often).

When you're blackmailed, you still have the choice to ignore the blackmailer, however, they'll punish you for it, so it's exactly like blackmail. You have the choice to ignore god and his/her apparent "rules", but if you do you'll be punished. Furthermore, if god is all powerful, why does any god require recognition for reward? Why should any god be that egotistical? You also imply that you can be immoral, but if you believe in god then he will accept and reward you but a moral person can be punished just for not believing? You don't see how this is egotistical and how a bully/dictator functions?

God doesn`t recognition for His ego. That`s how humans work and think. Recognition is the same as saying: “Ok, I see what You are and what You mean”. And because God is absolute and that means that it`s either Him or not.
Believing in God is as good as nothing. What`s the point of believing in Him if you don`t believe in what He is? You can`t separate both notions of belief. So no, you can`t be immoral.
What faith means is that you believe not just His existance but in what He is and what He wants for us and of us.
If you associate the concept of blackmail to this, it shows - no offense - that you don`t really understand what faith is and it`s implications. It`s a lot more deep that just my explanation.
Although men and God aren`t the same, there`s a mutual love there.

Anyway, their is a significant body of literature that shows a significant genetic and hormonal link to homosexuality. Their are contributing environmental factors, but I'll take the current scientific literature to the observations of any single person in their everyday life. Also, if it's not in the bible, why are you aginast it?
Honestly, i don`t know a lot about that so i can`t really comment.
As for me being against it, i`ll try to be as neutral as possible.
The act of homosexuality is something that`s against human nature, against the way God made us and seen as corruption of man.
Every sin is an offense to God who is absolute. Homosexuality is no different than prostitution, for example. If it goes on a different path than God, than it`s a sin.
But you see, still, Jesus died for our sins so we could find a place next to God. Does that seem like a whim of someone vengeful or a dictator? Has any dictator cared it`s own people to the point of serving a servant?

Again, I have difficulty understanding this view. In my view, you can follow religious rules all you want but it doesn't actually equate to faith or spirituality. All it shows is that you can follow rules laid out by a book written by humans thousands of years ago. All my spiritual experiences have had nothing to do with a belief in any god.

I can honestly understand with faith isn`t easy to understand because it`s essence is found in it`s experience, not in rational arguments - as it happens with God. It`s by living it that you feel it`s meaning and how that changes you. Faith is not reading a book.
If you search the Web i bet there are a lot of testimonies from people that really just didn`t care or even despises religion and then went through something that completely changed their lives and brought them closer to God. Maybe they can explain better than i can.