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Kasz216 said:

And again... I don't want this.

Two questions:

1.  I've shown your logic to be false and I've shown how your own sources have shown your logic to be false.  Why keep arguing?

2. You admit that you are arguing for something that you disagree with.  So are you playing Devil's Advocate or Troll?  If you are playing Devi's Advocate I'll gladly continue this debate, but if you are playing troll I would rather not continue to feed you.



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ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

And again... I don't want this.

Two questions:

1.  I've shown your logic to be false and I've shown how your own sources have shown your logic to be false.  Why keep arguing?

2. You admit that you are arguing for something that you disagree with.  So are you playing Devil's Advocate or Troll?  If you are playing Devi's Advocate I'll gladly continue this debate, but if you are playing troll I would rather not continue to feed you.

1. No you didn't?  You haven't even adressed any of the sources... outside the NYC one... where you didn't fully read and were proven wrong on.

2.  I'm not argueing for something I disagree with.  I'm argueing something would work that I disagree with.

Unlike you, I don't hold the viewpoint that something I don't think should happen, is impossible.  I don't think we should have military bases overseas, but I wouldn't say that was impossible... because it's totally possible, and happening.

Just like private roads.


As for why I'm argueing for it... I much less accepting of dumb arguements from people I agree with, then from people I disagree with... because bad nonsensical arguements like the ones you've been making act exactly like "Strawmen" except it's someone actually making that argument, so it's somewhat more effective. 

It's a common tactic you see on TV where to isolate and make ones opinion foolish, they find the  people to represent that view who have arguements like yours... that are eaisly refuted because they're off base.



Kasz216 said:

I'm not argueing for something I disagree with.  I'm argueing something would work that I disagree with.

Why do you disagree with it?



ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

I'm not argueing for something I disagree with.  I'm argueing something would work that I disagree with.

Why do you disagree with it?


A) From the limited data... private roads work better and are safer... even when adjusting for just about everything... but this is limited data.

B) Even assuming the data is better it would take quite the transition period to transition over all of the public roads to private roads.

C)  A lot of the advantages of private roads COULD be adopted by public roads... and like I showed in that paper... some are being considered.

In otherwords, there is no reason to uproad the entire road system for possible marginal benefit.  In situations where the government can't improve they can always just turn over certain roads... or even parts of roads to private companies.

Which is another thing that they do.

Pennsylvania is considering allowing private companies to build new "congestion" toll lanes, that you can pay extra to ride on.

Really though, Private roads are a lot more common then you'd think in the US.



Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

I'm not argueing for something I disagree with.  I'm argueing something would work that I disagree with.

Why do you disagree with it?

A) From the limited data... private roads work better and are safer... even when adjusting for just about everything... but this is limited data.

B) Even assuming the data is better it would take quite the transition period to transition over all of the public roads to private roads.

C)  A lot of the advantages of private roads COULD be adopted by public roads... and like I showed in that paper... some are being considered.

A) What do you mean by better and safer?  Do you mean that private roads are more economically efficient, and are you considering externalities?  Do you mean that private roads have better transportation safety engineering standards than public roads?  Do you mean that private roads have safer construction methods than public roads?

B) If something really is more efficient, why wouldn't you support adopting it?

C) If public roads run as efficiently as private roads, then what advantage is there to the introduction of the private market?



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ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:
ManusJustus said:
Kasz216 said:

I'm not argueing for something I disagree with.  I'm argueing something would work that I disagree with.

Why do you disagree with it?

A) From the limited data... private roads work better and are safer... even when adjusting for just about everything... but this is limited data.

B) Even assuming the data is better it would take quite the transition period to transition over all of the public roads to private roads.

C)  A lot of the advantages of private roads COULD be adopted by public roads... and like I showed in that paper... some are being considered.

A) What do you mean by better and safer?  Do you mean that private roads are more economically efficient, and are you considering externalities?  Do you mean that private roads have better transportation safety engineering standards than public roads?  Do you mean that private roads have safer construction methods than public roads?

B) If something really is more efficient, why wouldn't you support adopting it?

C) If public roads run as efficiently as private roads, then what advantage is there to the introduction of the private market?


A) And this is how I know you didn't read any of the sources provided.  Swedish PRA roads cost less then similar Swedish roads, largely becuase private buisnesses are more likely to react and fix small problems right away, because they're more likely to directly be effected by being sued.  It's all about preventative care.  Imagine if the government fixed problems as soon as they were little cracks or holes.. taking like less then a full day to do, rather then waiting for pot holes to get huge, lots of people complain, wait for funding, and wait for voting on where the road fixes go.

B)  Because the transition would be long and painful.  Afterall, you wouldn't be able to instantly implement the system EVERYWHERE at once... and if you don't that means either some people are double dip paying because they have to pay the Gas Tax and tolls... or the government will run deficits as it will have to remove the tax, and still have to pay for repairs.

C) They don't yet... but they could come close enough.  If they focus on things such as preventative road care and congestion based pricing. 

Government roads might even operate better then private roads... if the government started dealing with roads competently.  However, they haven't so far.

Also it would help if some desicions stopped being made on the national level.

As mentioned earlier, think about the "Bridge to Nowhere".  That was hardly an exception.



So how did that debate go?