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Forums - Sales - Epic Games: Videogame Industry is really scary right now

Kasz216 on 20 April 2011
greenmedic88 said:
ssj12 said:
 


Let us not forget about Facebook games. Or should I more specifically mention Zynga's social media games.... flash games that are making them rich beyond what anyone ever imagined they would.

Also, I do want to point out the most of the android Angry Birds games are free, they are supported by ad revenue which actually brings in more cash flow than selling it for $.99.

Simply put, small time developers are making small games that are enjoyed by million of people who would rather spend a dollar, nothing, or $5s on ingame money than buying console games that cost $40 - $60. Cost is the factor, which is why Steam sales are so very effective for PC games. 

Free to play, ad supported and pay as you go games are an entirely different can of worms, but in the end, whatever produces enough revenue for developers to keep making games or supporting the games they have already published is viable.

Free to play and ad supported apps do bring a new level of accessibility to anyone with network access though. Additionally, while this aspect is rarely brought up, it also completely circumvents the entire issue of piracy as game sales aren't the source of revenue.

Personally, I won't bother to play anything by Zynga, even for free, but their products do cover a pretty wide demographic. Whether any of those fall into the category of those who would have been playing the next Halo, Call of Duty and just converted to Farmville "because it was cheaper" is highly debatable though.


Actually i believe "hackers" develop pirated copies of those games that totally bypass the ads.



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greenmedic88 on 20 April 2011
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
ssj12 said:
 


Let us not forget about Facebook games. Or should I more specifically mention Zynga's social media games.... flash games that are making them rich beyond what anyone ever imagined they would.

Also, I do want to point out the most of the android Angry Birds games are free, they are supported by ad revenue which actually brings in more cash flow than selling it for $.99.

Simply put, small time developers are making small games that are enjoyed by million of people who would rather spend a dollar, nothing, or $5s on ingame money than buying console games that cost $40 - $60. Cost is the factor, which is why Steam sales are so very effective for PC games. 

Free to play, ad supported and pay as you go games are an entirely different can of worms, but in the end, whatever produces enough revenue for developers to keep making games or supporting the games they have already published is viable.

Free to play and ad supported apps do bring a new level of accessibility to anyone with network access though. Additionally, while this aspect is rarely brought up, it also completely circumvents the entire issue of piracy as game sales aren't the source of revenue.

Personally, I won't bother to play anything by Zynga, even for free, but their products do cover a pretty wide demographic. Whether any of those fall into the category of those who would have been playing the next Halo, Call of Duty and just converted to Farmville "because it was cheaper" is highly debatable though.


Actually i believe "hackers" develop pirated copies of those games that totally bypass the ads.

Not even worth the effort IMO, but I suppose if it can be done someone will do it. Like stealing free samples.



ssj12 on 20 April 2011
greenmedic88 said:
ssj12 said:
 


Let us not forget about Facebook games. Or should I more specifically mention Zynga's social media games.... flash games that are making them rich beyond what anyone ever imagined they would.

Also, I do want to point out the most of the android Angry Birds games are free, they are supported by ad revenue which actually brings in more cash flow than selling it for $.99.

Simply put, small time developers are making small games that are enjoyed by million of people who would rather spend a dollar, nothing, or $5s on ingame money than buying console games that cost $40 - $60. Cost is the factor, which is why Steam sales are so very effective for PC games. 

Free to play, ad supported and pay as you go games are an entirely different can of worms, but in the end, whatever produces enough revenue for developers to keep making games or supporting the games they have already published is viable.

Free to play and ad supported apps do bring a new level of accessibility to anyone with network access though. Additionally, while this aspect is rarely brought up, it also completely circumvents the entire issue of piracy as game sales aren't the source of revenue.

Personally, I won't bother to play anything by Zynga, even for free, but their products do cover a pretty wide demographic. Whether any of those fall into the category of those who would have been playing the next Halo, Call of Duty and just converted to Farmville "because it was cheaper" is highly debatable though.

Remember there are free FPS and F2P FPS MMO titles. Those tend to be what those crowds would go to.



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Euphoria14 on 20 April 2011
greenmedic88 said:
BenVTrigger said:
 



Tell ya what go take a look real quick and see just how many copies of Angry Birds have sold.  Then go look at how many copies Infamous, God of War, and Killzone have sold.

Here's a hint Angry Birds has been downloaded over 50 million times.

You would be a fool if your a game developer and you didn't recognize the vastly growing trend of quick, casual, cheap games.

The thing is there is one Angry Birds and by any reasonable count anywhere between 10,000-20,000 iOS/Android games that probably haven't been downloaded even 1,000 times.

None of these games generate the kind of revenue Infamous, God of War or Killzone have, and frankly, none of them were even trying.

Even at 50 million downloads (at $.99), Angry Birds generated less revenue than any $60 retail game that sold 1 million, of which there have been many (anyone care to count them this generation, be my guest). It's not uncommon.

And before anyone tries to bring up the budget/profit point; you can stop. That's not the point here. Everyone knows Angry Birds has been one of the most profitable games released in recent memory.

So if any developer on a minimal budget can reproduce the success of Angry Birds, I think they would if they could. But like catching lighting in a bottle, it's an extremely rare occurrence.

The point here is never use one example as proof of a trend.

Angry Birds isn't shovelware. Roxio took a simple, original concept with likeable design and executed it pretty much perfectly which is why it sold as well as it did. Next to no portable app developers are capable of doing this without simply trying to copy or be derivative.

Most full priced apps whether they're $30-40 portable games or $60 retail console/PC games aren't even capable of doing this.


First off there are (3) angry bird. There is the original Angry Birds, the constantly updated and expanded Angry Birds Seasons and then there is Angry Birds Rio.

Also just doing a quick look on the Android Market...

Robo Defense = >250,000 Downloads

Fruit Ninja = > 250,000 Downloads

Doodle Jump = > 250,000 Downloads

Game Dev Story = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Jewel Lust = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

SNESoid = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Gem Miner = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Word Fued = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Zenonia = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Zenonia 2 = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

NESoid = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

UNO = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Reckless Racing = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Spectral Souls = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Baseball Superstars 2011 = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Need for Speed Shift = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Mini Squadron = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Flight Director = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Illusia = 1,000-5,000 Downloads

Guns'n'Glory = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Baseball Superstars 2009 = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Radiant HD = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Shredder Chess = 1,000-5,000 Downloads

Hyper Jump = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Pocket God = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Tetris = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Baseball Superstars 2010 = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Pro Evolution Soccer = 5,000-10,000 Downloads

Caligo Chaser = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

Bejeweled 2 = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

The Sims 3 = 50,000-250,000 Downloads

Heavy Gunner 3D = 10,000-50,000 Downloads

 

All priced between $0.99-$15. Majority of these titles in the $2.99-$5.99 range.

 

None of these listed titles are free apps, all are paid for apps. If I go to the free apps I am sure the numbers will be MUCH MUCH higher, not to mention that those free apps make money from the advertising that is shown at the bottom and/or top of the screen.

This list is also ONLY the Android market versions. I assume they sold as well if not better on iTunes. Plus these titles exclude those available from GameLoft.



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

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Euphoria14 on 20 April 2011

These games tend to be low risk-high reward due to the advertising structure of mobile gaming, especially on Android. This is why they can give away games for no cost and still make millions.

Some of these games are incredibly well made too. I am currently playing Eternal Legacy and I am amazed at not only how well it looks, but also how much it offers in terms of gameplay.

 

These devices are also easily able to support ports from handhelds like the DS and PSP, as shown by Final Fantasy III and Crimson Gem SaGa on iOS and Spectral Souls on Android. Even better is that they cost ~$10-15 each as opposed to $30-$40 on the dedicated handheld platforms.

Touchscreen devices also work incredibly well for turn based JRPG gaming, which is why I love them so much.

 

Also worth mentioning is that Angry Birds has been downloaded over 75M times and has an active userbase of over 40M and they aim for over 100M downloads within the next year or so.

http://in.reuters.com/article/2011/03/10/rovio-accel-idINLDE72918B20110310



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

Final Fantasy VI (iOS), Final Fantasy: Record Keeper (iOS) & Dragon Quest V (iOS)     

    

Got a retro room? Post it here!

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Euphoria14 on 20 April 2011
Kasz216 said:

If my entire buisness strategy was built on selling engines for overexpensive graphical powerhouses that weren't doing too well BEFORE the Iphone games became big... i'd be worried too.

 

Or if i liked said games.  Really though I'm more of a fan of the 5-30 dollar games.


There are already games on Mobile devices using the Unreal Engine. Gameloft currently has (4) more in development.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/01/gameloft-developing-4-multiplatform-unreal-engine-games-for-ios/

 

Here is an example of one.



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

Final Fantasy VI (iOS), Final Fantasy: Record Keeper (iOS) & Dragon Quest V (iOS)     

    

Got a retro room? Post it here!

Squilliam on 20 April 2011

The $0-0.99 business model isn't at all that important. It is the change from pay then play to play then pay (if you like it) which is important. We're just at the start of the change in direction for the games industry. The only question is how you pay and what you pay for, albeit DLC or Items or with advertising.



Tease.

Euphoria14 on 20 April 2011
Squilliam said:

The $0-0.99 business model isn't at all that important. It is the change from pay then play to play then pay (if you like it) which is important. We're just at the start of the change in direction for the games industry. The only question is how you pay and what you pay for, albeit DLC or Items or with advertising.


Most if not all games available on these devices do not have a pay to play option, it is usually free yet limited, free with ads or pay with no ads.

You have the ocassional MMO however that offers pay to play if you wish to open more options, like Pocket Legends.



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

Final Fantasy VI (iOS), Final Fantasy: Record Keeper (iOS) & Dragon Quest V (iOS)     

    

Got a retro room? Post it here!

Kasz216 on 21 April 2011
greenmedic88 said:
Kasz216 said:
greenmedic88 said:
ssj12 said:
 


Let us not forget about Facebook games. Or should I more specifically mention Zynga's social media games.... flash games that are making them rich beyond what anyone ever imagined they would.

Also, I do want to point out the most of the android Angry Birds games are free, they are supported by ad revenue which actually brings in more cash flow than selling it for $.99.

Simply put, small time developers are making small games that are enjoyed by million of people who would rather spend a dollar, nothing, or $5s on ingame money than buying console games that cost $40 - $60. Cost is the factor, which is why Steam sales are so very effective for PC games. 

Free to play, ad supported and pay as you go games are an entirely different can of worms, but in the end, whatever produces enough revenue for developers to keep making games or supporting the games they have already published is viable.

Free to play and ad supported apps do bring a new level of accessibility to anyone with network access though. Additionally, while this aspect is rarely brought up, it also completely circumvents the entire issue of piracy as game sales aren't the source of revenue.

Personally, I won't bother to play anything by Zynga, even for free, but their products do cover a pretty wide demographic. Whether any of those fall into the category of those who would have been playing the next Halo, Call of Duty and just converted to Farmville "because it was cheaper" is highly debatable though.


Actually i believe "hackers" develop pirated copies of those games that totally bypass the ads.

Not even worth the effort IMO, but I suppose if it can be done someone will do it. Like stealing free samples.


Yeah I agree.  I just remember in an Indy dicussion about how to stop game piracy the thought about making a DRM that makes a game ad generated if pirated.

Which apparently other people had tried before, but they ended up not only pirating said games, but then hacked the games to remove that feature... and mentioning that there were hacked versions of other games like that too.



Kasz216 on 21 April 2011
Euphoria14 said:
Kasz216 said:

If my entire buisness strategy was built on selling engines for overexpensive graphical powerhouses that weren't doing too well BEFORE the Iphone games became big... i'd be worried too.

 

Or if i liked said games.  Really though I'm more of a fan of the 5-30 dollar games.


There are already games on Mobile devices using the Unreal Engine. Gameloft currently has (4) more in development.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/01/gameloft-developing-4-multiplatform-unreal-engine-games-for-ios/

 

Here is an example of one.

 

 


I must of missed when Cliffy B backtracked off of his "We could make lesser powered engines or go back and rework engines for weaker systems but don't want to because that's not what we're about because it wouldn't be interesting." statements back when everyone was like "Why no Wii unreal engine".

I'm surprised people would bother to liscense an engine for a 99 cent game.

Seems like a "Be super successful or your screwed" setup.