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Forums - General - Race/Class/Gender/etc. Do they still matter?

Games4Fun said:
mrstickball said:

No, not really.

It matters only when people want to take it as a problem.

For example, your statement about men/women making different money is totally wrong. It's been proven for awhile that men and women, provided they do the same work, will get paid the same.

As for your claim about race and drugs, the bureau of Justice disagrees. As per their statistics, many more blacks are jailed for drug dealing because there are simply more black drug dealers than whites in comparison to users. http://www.jrsa.org/ibrrc/using-data/data_quality/data_elements/drug/drug_examples.shtml

As per their data, 69% of all incarcerated for drug offenses are by whites. But for dealers, its a 50/50 split between blacks and whites.

In the end, the reason (I think) they are still issues are because people still push them as problems, and complain about them. When we stop seeing people as male/female/black/white/straight/gay, we can judge people based on quality and character, which is a far more useful metric for defining worth.

Unfortunetly race does indeed still matter for the States as a whole. Now, thats not to say ever single person is racist as that is far from the truth but lets have a small look at the income levels of different races.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0689.pdf

look at the difference in thoose that make less than 15k now look over at the median income between black and whites. That is a huge difference it shows race is still a problem on at least this level. Why are there such big differences among the different races in pay?

....Because education among blacks is worse, and education heavily correlates with ones' income and pay inequality?

The table you show proves this assumption. Education among blacks was on the rise until the past 10 years, which has been stagnant (also the same can be said for whites), which was also when they had the lowest percentage of people making under $15,000 per year.

The issue is more of a cultural issue than a racial one. Some cultures breed educational problems, mostly caused by horrible government educational systems (e.g. forced districting to failing schools) and bad parenting, spurred by the proliferation of single parents.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

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mrstickball said:
Games4Fun said:
mrstickball said:

No, not really.

It matters only when people want to take it as a problem.

For example, your statement about men/women making different money is totally wrong. It's been proven for awhile that men and women, provided they do the same work, will get paid the same.

As for your claim about race and drugs, the bureau of Justice disagrees. As per their statistics, many more blacks are jailed for drug dealing because there are simply more black drug dealers than whites in comparison to users. http://www.jrsa.org/ibrrc/using-data/data_quality/data_elements/drug/drug_examples.shtml

As per their data, 69% of all incarcerated for drug offenses are by whites. But for dealers, its a 50/50 split between blacks and whites.

In the end, the reason (I think) they are still issues are because people still push them as problems, and complain about them. When we stop seeing people as male/female/black/white/straight/gay, we can judge people based on quality and character, which is a far more useful metric for defining worth.

Unfortunetly race does indeed still matter for the States as a whole. Now, thats not to say ever single person is racist as that is far from the truth but lets have a small look at the income levels of different races.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0689.pdf

look at the difference in thoose that make less than 15k now look over at the median income between black and whites. That is a huge difference it shows race is still a problem on at least this level. Why are there such big differences among the different races in pay?

....Because education among blacks is worse, and education heavily correlates with ones' income and pay inequality?

The table you show proves this assumption. Education among blacks was on the rise until the past 10 years, which has been stagnant (also the same can be said for whites), which was also when they had the lowest percentage of people making under $15,000 per year.

The issue is more of a cultural issue than a racial one. Some cultures breed educational problems, mostly caused by horrible government educational systems (e.g. forced districting to failing schools) and bad parenting, spurred by the proliferation of single parents.


Yes  inequality was the term I should have used for this. Im really rusty on this stuff atm and need to go back over my own notes and books I have.

By forced districting to failing schools does this mean putting the failing ones togather? im even more rusty than I thought. Also, something I dont recall ever understanding is the the major differences in schools. Example the huge difference in big city schools and then like the one I went to which is kind of a middle ground. Big city schools of course generally being the ones minorties tend to get stuck.

 



Yes their will be always some issues but that is simply a part of our human nature...
Go to a child's playground and you see all races playing together...The only difference that exist is 
'you are a girl and I am a boy'..

But when they will grow up they will search their identity and want to belong in a group..

And that is where you get diversity and the experience about the other groups of people...Race..Gender..Religion....Skaters;..Technofreaks...name it...

It is foolish to presume we are all equal and the same....we are all different and everyone of
us has some groups of people he likes better then the other....sadly their will be always haters who will
 threat their group as bette and have a hard time accept the others...Democrat/Replubican/Mexican/Canadian/Christian/Muslim/Jew/From New York/From California/From Texas/Footballfan/Basketballfan/African/Asian/Indian/Latin/etc..



 

Games4Fun said:
mrstickball said:
Games4Fun said:
mrstickball said:

No, not really.

It matters only when people want to take it as a problem.

For example, your statement about men/women making different money is totally wrong. It's been proven for awhile that men and women, provided they do the same work, will get paid the same.

As for your claim about race and drugs, the bureau of Justice disagrees. As per their statistics, many more blacks are jailed for drug dealing because there are simply more black drug dealers than whites in comparison to users. http://www.jrsa.org/ibrrc/using-data/data_quality/data_elements/drug/drug_examples.shtml

As per their data, 69% of all incarcerated for drug offenses are by whites. But for dealers, its a 50/50 split between blacks and whites.

In the end, the reason (I think) they are still issues are because people still push them as problems, and complain about them. When we stop seeing people as male/female/black/white/straight/gay, we can judge people based on quality and character, which is a far more useful metric for defining worth.

Unfortunetly race does indeed still matter for the States as a whole. Now, thats not to say ever single person is racist as that is far from the truth but lets have a small look at the income levels of different races.

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0689.pdf

look at the difference in thoose that make less than 15k now look over at the median income between black and whites. That is a huge difference it shows race is still a problem on at least this level. Why are there such big differences among the different races in pay?

....Because education among blacks is worse, and education heavily correlates with ones' income and pay inequality?

The table you show proves this assumption. Education among blacks was on the rise until the past 10 years, which has been stagnant (also the same can be said for whites), which was also when they had the lowest percentage of people making under $15,000 per year.

The issue is more of a cultural issue than a racial one. Some cultures breed educational problems, mostly caused by horrible government educational systems (e.g. forced districting to failing schools) and bad parenting, spurred by the proliferation of single parents.


Yes  inequality was the term I should have used for this. Im really rusty on this stuff atm and need to go back over my own notes and books I have.

By forced districting to failing schools does this mean putting the failing ones togather? im even more rusty than I thought. Also, something I dont recall ever understanding is the the major differences in schools. Example the huge difference in big city schools and then like the one I went to which is kind of a middle ground. Big city schools of course generally being the ones minorties tend to get stuck.

 

Forced districting means that a certain school must take all kids from a given area - a 'district'. For example, I live in one school district, and must send my kid (if I had one. My wife is pregnant, so we'll be having one shortly, though) to this local school district. I can't send him to the better school that is closer than this one, because my house is 1 mile from the district line. In some cases, it is allowed if the family pays money to the district, but most people don't have the money.

When that happens, it means that if you have a neighborhood that has a crappy school, everyone - white, black, hispanic - must go to that school no matter what. In Ohio, a woman was sent to jail for sending her kids to the school that was better, because she was outside of her district.

The districting issue isn't racist - its an issue where everyone suffers, but due to the location of some racial groups, some suffer more inadvertantly. Of course, I'm big on vouchering as the solution to this (e.g. allow all children an education voucher to go to whatever school they want - any public, any private, any religious up to a certain dollar value).

In the end, I don't believe racial inequalities are due to inequal opportunities, but due to cultural factors that play a significant part in hindering some peoples' education or lifestyles. For example, crime among poor blacks and poor whites is usually about the same. However, since there are more poor blacks than poor whites, there are more blacks that commit crimes. Some see this as racial bias, but I see it as a socio-economic bias that just happens to effect some more than others. Furthermore, its not that you don't want to fix the issue, but we have to ensure we fix the issue without favoritism via racial quotas, or things that benefit one race over the other, which we do a lot of in America.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

mrstickball said:

Forced districting means that a certain school must take all kids from a given area - a 'district'. For example, I live in one school district, and must send my kid (if I had one. My wife is pregnant, so we'll be having one shortly, though) to this local school district. I can't send him to the better school that is closer than this one, because my house is 1 mile from the district line. In some cases, it is allowed if the family pays money to the district, but most people don't have the money.

When that happens, it means that if you have a neighborhood that has a crappy school, everyone - white, black, hispanic - must go to that school no matter what. In Ohio, a woman was sent to jail for sending her kids to the school that was better, because she was outside of her district.

The districting issue isn't racist - its an issue where everyone suffers, but due to the location of some racial groups, some suffer more inadvertantly. Of course, I'm big on vouchering as the solution to this (e.g. allow all children an education voucher to go to whatever school they want - any public, any private, any religious up to a certain dollar value).

In the end, I don't believe racial inequalities are due to inequal opportunities, but due to cultural factors that play a significant part in hindering some peoples' education or lifestyles. For example, crime among poor blacks and poor whites is usually about the same. However, since there are more poor blacks than poor whites, there are more blacks that commit crimes. Some see this as racial bias, but I see it as a socio-economic bias that just happens to effect some more than others. Furthermore, its not that you don't want to fix the issue, but we have to ensure we fix the issue without favoritism via racial quotas, or things that benefit one race over the other, which we do a lot of in America.

Can't you just send your kid to a private school? I mean that voucher stuff just seems pointless.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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In a good RPG, they do matter.



I LOVE ICELAND!

sapphi_snake said:

Can't you just send your kid to a private school? I mean that voucher stuff just seems pointless.

If I send my kid to private school, I still have to pay taxes to the district AND pay for the private school. In fact, I just sent in my tax payment to the district - $257.00 USD (that was just in income taxes, I also pay property taxes on my apartment which are about $1,800/yr). So if I send my kid to the private school I want, I must pay ~$5,000 USD/yr for education and still pay thousands in taxes per year for education. The better way to do it would be to give each child a voucher to redeem for 1 year of education at the facility of their parents choice. That way, if a child wants a private education, they do not need to pay for it (provided the cost is within public cost ranges, which in Ohio, private schools are a fraction of the price of public schools).

That is where I find the issue. Without vouchers, there is no competition for a student's well being. That leads to worsening standards and higher cost of education. America spends the 2nd most in dollars for education, but we rank around #30 in terms of math, science and reading. We're getting butchered by Europe and Asia.



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

KungKras said:

In a good RPG, they do matter.

Then all JRPGs are bad in your opinion?



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
KungKras said:

In a good RPG, they do matter.

Then all JRPGs are bad in your opinion?

Forgot about them. Didn't think anyone would analyze a joke comment :P



I LOVE ICELAND!

Race - Not especially, no. If I were running that convenience store you described, yes, the word "Latino" did pop into my mind. But it's not because of their race. It's because the non-white American populations are relatively poorer, so crime rates are higher. If I saw a group of white people in hoodies and another group of hispanic people in business suits, I would certainly be more worried about the white people

Gender - More so, but still, no. The stereotypes you named still do exist, but they are perpetuated by the members of each gender. Men don't generally want to be babysitters, and women don't generally want to oversee building renovations. Yes, if I saw a man applying to be a babysitter, I would be surprised, but I wouldn't really hold it against him, at least, not intentionally. As for the pay divide, that's easily explained by the fact that a lot of women take maternity leave. Those lost six months, especially in your 20s and 30s, do mean a lot for career progression, and in general, women will focus more on their families and less on work. That is not a hard and fasty rule, and plenty of women are devoted primarily to their careers, but they are in a minority

Social Class - Yes, and this will be true unless and until we achieve perfect Communism (which is, of course, impossible). Class is the only one of the three which is self-defined. Yes, at birth, you will be a  member of a certain class. But it's relatively easy to change that. Class is the quality of your education and your job, how well you speak, your interest in intellectual matters. It has nothing to do with money, but more money does correlate with higher class. So, yes, there is a stigma against the lower classes, but that will always be true.

For the other two, the stereotypes will last only as long as members of each group continue to further them.



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