lol sorry man, yah i wasnt talking about you. sorry bout that.

dont be angry at me

edit: i had a couple typo's that might of mad you confused, sorry, i edited my last post to fix it

You didn't actually say anything.  You were just really condescending about whatever I posted (but that's okay.) .  Is that what this discussion has become?  I will give yout the Netflix thing.  I tend to use Netflix on the PSN simply because I can set the console to shut down in 2hrs on the PSN instead of 6hrs on the Xbox 360.  I use it on the 360 when I want people to know what I'm watching.  Aside from that, we're just arguing semantics.  We'll just go ahead and say I won and leave it at that.

*Edit*Hey! I gave you that Netflix arguement until I actually read the article.  That was before the Xbox Live Netflix update.  I don't know about the sound but both versions (and the Wii version) all have the same interface and such, now!!  I think PS3 got the udate in October (like the article said) and 360 got the update in November.  PS3 DOES load faster, though.

Mantlepiecek, you don't deserve another reply.

I said a lot of things that I consider important. Nevertheless, the fact that every plus of XBL is so minor and some aren't even pluses mean that PSN is the better value for money by far, lets not forget that PSN has its own pluses as well, even if you exclude its free. And I consider them to be the same. Superior? To me if a service just puts unnecessary(yes) features its useless. No one asks for facebook, twitter, espn. No one asked for profile info. No one asks for something like ads.

They are useless and the main reason 99% of the people get live is for online gaming. If you think this is not true then you are delusional. On PSN you don't have to pay for it that's all.

Its no match for free, games for windows live was $50 as well, now its free. No one cares for unnecessary features. And the only people who even compare XBL and PSN are XBL fans trying to find out reasons to support XBL gold.

Your post managed to tell three things, XBL is supposedly superior because it has features that 1) Don't relate to gaming, 2) Are not related to XBL(lol), 3) Are available elsewhere for free.

No its not. A service can only be worth the money if its offering something that other services don't(for cheaper). The only reason XBL is successful is because MS has a monopoly over Xbox 360, and its not that expensive. However if there was PSN and XBL gold on the PC, then we all know what would have happened.

I look at things like that. I don't want to end up in a situation where I am trying to justify the price of XBL gold/PS plus. Which is why I don't have them.

Superiority can be measured in many ways, value for money, features, ease of usage, and non existance of problems. Feature wise, if you only look at stuff from XBL gold and PSN free(in the US), then yeah, sure XBL gold seems superior. Value for money? PSN is the best service for free on the consoles.

Ease of usage can be measured in many ways as well. Easy HDD upgrade, headset bluetooth/USB, and all other hardware compatibility makes the PS3 a very accessory friendly system.

I haven't even started on any of the PSN's plus points because I know its not required. The biggest plus point is that I can play across mutiple accounts for free. I can buy stuff from different PSN stores. Japanese games and everything else.

I can't do that on XBL. I can't get google picasa on the XBL. I can't get playmemories on XBL. I can't get Life@PS on XBL. I can't get Home either, which is a lot better than game room.

I can't upload videos on youtube through XBL. I can't get MLB TV on XBL.

There I just listed some ten advantages that I don't use. And picasa web uploading and youtube uploading are great advantages and work very well. Facebook pic sharing and all that.

One could easiliy argue that PSN is better this way. They don't need to.

@d21lewis  your one of the few people here who at least try to back up their claims with as little bias as popular, thumbs up to you, i learned more about Live from you than my "so-called" gamer friends. Im still partial to PSN, because i still strongly believe that i shouldnt have to pay additional money to use a feature of a game that i bought, no matter how cool those extra features of Live might be. Now if Silver let you play online without all the extra crap I dont want, you'd better believe i would have owned a 360, because they can keep the ESPN and whatever they have on Gold. 

As for games running better, i think that has more to do with the devs of said game. Ive been playing UNcharted 2 since day 1 and ive never had a problem with lag or anything like that, but Bioshock2 has given me problems (patches fixed it, thank god). 

@mantlepiecek  i love PSN as well, but jeez! Some people just like those extra features, no matter how useless you and i think they are

1.  Debateable--which is why we are debating.

2.  Worth is determined by what people are willing to pay.  If you have a $500,000 comic and you can only sell it for $900, it's only worth $900.  Apparently, Xbox Live users (like me) feel that it's worth $60 a year.  You don't.  Like I said, it's okay.

3. I'm not in the situation where I have to justify the price of Xbox Live.  The reason I have had Xbox Live for four years has absolutely nothing to do with justifying it to anyone.  I have the service because I enjoy it.  I use the service because I prefer it.  You're not in the situation to justify the value of Live or PSN Plus.  You are in the situation where you're trying to prove something is not worth what it's worth.  You alone put yourself in that situation.

4.  Accessory friendly, not user friendly.  If it were so easy to use these items and upgrade, there wouldn't be so many threads with people asking how to upgrade their hard drives, and how to avoid losing their data.  It may be cheaper/convenient that the PS3 supports accessories like blue tooth and third party HDD's.  It is easier to replace your existing HDD with a Microsoft Proprietary HDD.  Know the difference.

5.  I couldn't even use my credit card to buy Crash Team Racing and Front Mission 3 from the European Account.  And even if I could, I'd have had to use that content only with the European account (that I actually made so I could play the Enslaved demo, early).

6.  I don't even know what those are.  I assume they must be awesome.  Game Room sucks (in my opinion).  Home sucks less (in our opinion).  No argument, there.  I personally don't use either but I can see the appeal to those that do.

You can argue that PSN is better.  I'll continue arguing that Live is better.  I won't change your mind and you won't change mine.    But let me remind you that throughout this thread, I've said time and again that for a free option, PSN is great.  I've said that the PSN has come a long way.  I've posted things that I think the PSN does better than Xbox Live.  I have nothing against the PS3, its fans, its online, or its games.  I don't care which one costs more.  I care which one is better.  All you've done is take things that I feel are important and said, "Hey, that sucks." , "Hey, that doesn't work.", "Hey, I don't care about that.".

Going off topic for a moment, why do you think that the PSN is free?  Do you think it's because Sony loves you or do you think it was a direct result of them trying to compete with Microsoft and Xbox Live?  Do you think Sony regrets the fact that they are practically hemoraging money on this service?  Do you think that they'd charge for online if there wasn't the probablity that PSN users would revolt?  You attack Xbox Live for being the same price (until last year) that it's been for about a decade despite being a much better service.  Why? 

You say the only people comparing XBL to PSN are XBL fans trying to justify their purchase.  Did an Xbox fan make this thread?  It's like you feel threatened that another console may do one single thing better than your console of choice.  Come off of that.  It's just a waste of time. 

I think PSN is free because that's the way an online system should be. I think Xbox live costs $60 because MS can get away with it. Sony can't because they have free online since the beginning of this gen, and MS had an headstart, had PS3 had an headstart, Xbox live wouldn't be as popular.

MS are the only one charging for online. Sony, nintendo both offer it for free. PC online is free as well.

The best example is Games for windows live. MS didn't have a monopoly on the PC, so they couldn't get away with it. They have a monopoly with 360 and can get away with it since they started this gen.

Its got nothing to do with being better, or providing better services. Lets see then, forget our debate, how many extras does Xbox live gold have? Netflix, Hulu plus. PSN has Netflix, hulu plus, lovefilm, MUBI. All are somekinds of rental service, yes its not there in your region, but XBL doesn't have some of those in any region whereas overall PSN does have it.

Lets talk about features then. XBL doesn't have playmemories its a 3D picture app. It doesn't have anything similar either. It doesn't have google picasa or from what I know printer support(yeah I know right?). I can possibly print photos but I have never tried it.

The accessory thing you said that wasn't user friendly? Its very user friendly. I can plug n play a USB headset. I can plug n play many USB devices and use the PS3 like a PC.

Bluetooth headset as well. The HDD thing is harder than 360, but it costs again, at least $50 less officially. You have more options like SSD hard drive and other sizes.

You didn't know about all the apps that I listed? Those are one of the best apps on the PS3 and are free except for MLB Tv. I really like google picasa on PS3 even though I don't use it.

Just don't say that xbox live is better because you pay for it since that's not true.

I don't feel another console can't do something better than PS3, I never said it doesn't. Multiplats for eg look better on 360 and if you said that it wouldn't matter to me. But to say something like XBL has more features! When many of those features are not features and then include stuff like true skill and achievements that are not related to XBL in anyway, it just feels dumb.

Its like saying 360 is a better console than PS3 because it has ESPN. Its not related.

I say PSN because it is free and I like the games on PSN better than Xbox 360.

When just comparing the two, I will give the edge to XBL.

When price comes into play, it is a definate win for Playstation Network. £40 a year is quite a hefty sum for party chat.

After being irritated by so many campers on Call of Duty and irritating kids spamming "challenge lobby" messages I rarely want to touch XBOX Live. Looks like I will let my Gold subscription run dry and that will be that.