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Forums - Gaming - Carmack: "PS3 Better Than Anything... Except 360"

mantlepiecek said:

Never, never use future-proof and 360 in the same sentence again. Do not forget the RROD, the E71 errors and all the other crap that it has come up with.

The PS3 has it's share of hardware problems as well, besides that's about reliability. Futureproofing is something else.

mantlepiecek said:

If anything is actually future-proof, its the PC.

Yeah, you can play the best looking games if you upgrade it, which is the complete opposite of futureproofing. That what you buy day 0 doesn't need to be upgraded to play games releases in 2 years time.

mantlepiecek said:

PS3 is easily more future-proof then the 360, the HDD because of which Rage has an advantage, and better graphics too. Those 90 to 95 % of the games no one will actually buy all of them, and many of them are older ones now, so it doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter how many people buy them as long as a single copy exists. All you can say is if you walked into a store, purchased Bulletstorm, Crysis 2, Black Ops you'll need the oldest console this gen to play them optimally. Hard drive or not.



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mendozahotness said:
mantlepiecek said:

Never, never use future-proof and 360 in the same sentence again. Do not forget the RROD, the E71 errors and all the other crap that it has come up with.

The PS3 has it's share of hardware problems as well, besides that's about reliability. Futureproofing is something else.

mantlepiecek said:

If anything is actually future-proof, its the PC.

Yeah, you can play the best looking games if you upgrade it, which is the complete opposite of futureproofing. That what you buy day 0 doesn't need to be upgraded to play games releases in 2 years time.

mantlepiecek said:

PS3 is easily more future-proof then the 360, the HDD because of which Rage has an advantage, and better graphics too. Those 90 to 95 % of the games no one will actually buy all of them, and many of them are older ones now, so it doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter how many people buy them as long as a single copy exists. All you can say is if you walked into a store, purchased Bulletstorm, Crysis 2, Black Ops you'll need the oldest console this gen to play them optimally. Hard drive or not.

And? Reliablity matters a lot in future so it does matter in future-proofing. If my system fails every year that's hardly called future-proof. Oh and it did fail(for me at least) every year, btw.

Carmack himself has said it that the HDD gives an advantage to the PS3, and the blu-ray, seriously what future-proof are you talking about in relation to the 360? It uses old DVD media which has started to show its age with Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 already, even Castlevania has 2 Discs.

No one buys older games, and the small quantity that do, do not matter. There are more people now who have a PC that can run GTA 4 properly then people who do have a 360 that can run GTA 4 properly along with an HDTV. With time, more people start buying new PCs and end up getting temporary gaming PCs. So your so called "future proof" 360 didn't ever exist. And now that its reliablity is restored, the multiplats quality on the PS3 is also getting better (the irony). This year if you have observed 50 % of the games either look the same or run better on the PS3, or have some kind of DLC exclusivity. The only exception is Bulletstorm. Stacking, de blob 2, Dead Space 2, Marvel vs Capcom 3, Dragon Age 2, are all better or the same on the PS3 according to either lens of truth or digitalfoundry. There's like 2 games that are better on the 360. Even Mass effect 2 is the same on both and it uses unreal engine as well.



slowmo said:
goforgold said:
slowmo said:
goforgold said:
hikaruchan said:
goforgold said:
slowmo said:
CGI-Quality said:

Man, I read this on N4G and was hoping nobody posted it here (because I know what a thread like this can end up like), but it is just his opinion (and he means it in terms of efficiency, not power). In fact, he's admitted that the PS3 has "more peak power" than the 360, but that in the end, the 360 will have it's power better exploited. Nothing many other devs haven't already said.


Strange how that only ever seems to really become an issue when it's the 360 being lauded by a developer and not the PS3 though isn't it.  He also was pretty exact on his reasoning, he thinks the 360 is the better console for everything except storage in terms of the work he is doing.  Right or wrong, it's his opinion and doesn't make it any less valid than the Sony developers who frequently quote opinion as fact yet get worshipped so frequently on here.  I guess my point is, nothing should be prevented from posting just because some of the userbase cannot behave (unless of course it is deliberately misleading/false).

I'm quite happy to admit I think the PS3 is the better hardware by the way, I just prefer the 360 userbase and experience for my gaming needs, plus being a FPS fan doesn't hurt as a 360 gamer.

no he doesn't.....


???

having architecture closer to the PC making it easier to developer for =/= better than the ps3 in every way except storage, and that's not an opinion.

John knows this because it's what he said, don't know what you guys are reading.

http://www.destructoid.com/blogs/ReclusiveSpirit/john-carmack-unplugged-xbox-360-gt-ps3-98107.phtml

It's an old interview and was posted earlier in the thread but it seems his opinion hasn't changed much.  Fair enough though if you don't see how a developer would prefer the 360 as a devleopment environment.  It has almost equivalent power but more flexibility, that's pretty important to a lot of developers.

exactly, nothing more really needs to be said

he prefers the 360 because of it's ease in development which is totally acceptable, you twisted it into he thinks the 360 is better than the ps3 hardware wise which is incorrect and that's just a fact.

No I stated it was the better console in every way besides Storage for the work he was doing.  That isn't the same as saying the 360 is the better console in his opinion as there is two distinct differences there.  One would be a personal opinion the other is his professional opinion in terms of development.  I understand given my pro 360 bias why you might think I meant that though.

easier is the word your looking for, better implies some sort of superiority, and the is 360 isn't superior to the ps3 in any way EXCEPT it's ease to develop for, even if the differences are minor



selnor said:
MikeB said:

Before people getting upset with what I wrote above I would like people to read the perspective from Mike Acton of Insomniac games, a games console programmer:

http://www.develop-online.net/features/181/QA-Insomniacs-Mike-Acton

http://www.developmag.com/interviews/175/QA-Insomniacs-Mike-Acton-Part-2

He addresses a lot of points I have been advocating since many years before that interview and I agree 100% with his given perspective there.

IMO Microsoft had a lot to do with the point Mike Acton addresses above. Microsoft has indeed bribed many university corporate managers to try to influence the industry and push through their dominance. This also by providing students and universities with free development tools. In the end Microsoft of course wants new developers to become familiar and even dependent upon the solutions they provide, actually the more dependent the better. For example if XBLA fully ties you to their platforms/solutions they will do everything they can to facilitate this.

I understand Microsoft is a commercial company, but this not at all helps with the education of more knowledgeable and free thinking programmers and developers from the grand perspective.


Just a word of advice. Many people on here MikeB would give your comments and quotes more credibility if all the ones you favoured were not from PS3 only developers. It makes your arguement entirely one sided.

I'm just pointing this out to you. Having sat back recently, the world of BS on the internet is alot clearer.

Whagt it looks like in this thread, is you putting down world reknowned leaders in graphics, and promoting developers who have never been reknowned for it.

The guys who have always provided the top graphics have come from ID Software, Crytek and Epic Games. Putting these down like you have just fuels this entire threads arguements.

This is all just a bit of advice for when you next post a comment.

Apparently it was not on console that they proved they're the best because.. oh wait. :)



mantlepiecek said:

And? Reliablity matters a lot in future so it does matter in future-proofing. If my system fails every year that's hardly called future-proof. Oh and it did fail(for me at least) every year,

That's nice. I'd sooner have a console that might break that can run said games properly, then a console that never breaks and struggles to run games as well as the oldest hardware.

mantlepiecek said:

Carmack himself has said it that the HDD gives an advantage to the PS3, and the blu-ray, seriously what future-proof are you talking about in relation to the 360? It uses old DVD media which has started to show its age with Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 already, even Castlevania has 2 Discs.

I niticed Resident Evil 4 on Gamecube had 2 discs and the PS2 version only had one, but still had inferior graphics. 360 games could be on 10 discs and it wouldn't matter, as long as the graphics are better.

Hell PS3 had an extra year of development for Mass Effect 2 and they still had to take out the AA and motion blur to get the game running as well as the oldest hardware.

mantlepiecek said:

No one buys older games, and the small quantity that do, do not matter. There are more people now who have a PC that can run GTA 4 properly then people who do have a 360 that can run GTA 4 properly along with an HDTV. With time, more people start buying new PCs and end up getting temporary gaming PCs. So your so called "future proof" 360 didn't ever exist.

Sorry, unless they bought their PCS in November 2005, they don't count.

mantlepiecek said:

And now that its reliablity is restored, the multiplats quality on the PS3 is also getting better (the irony).

What you find it ironic that the newest hardware this generation is running the utmost worst version of the software?
Xbox software has enjoyed this level of polish for years.

mantlepiecek said:

The only exception is Bulletstorm.  Even Mass effect 2 is the same on both and it uses unreal engine as well.

And Crysis 2 and Test Drive Unlimited 2 and Fight Night Champions and Marvel Vs Capcom 3, that's just the last 2 months, brin in 2010 and you got Mafia 2, GTA:EFLC, RDR, Bayonetta, Dead Rising, BLOPS..IT'S ENDLESS

mantlepiecek said:

Even Mass effect 2 is the same on both and it uses unreal engine as well.

Nope, it has no AA or motion blur on PS3...and its a year late.

 

 

 



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ClassicGamingWizzz said:

John Carmack does.



Pokemonking said:

i dont care rage is lame anyways and ofcourse someone would rather make a game on the 360 cause its easier due to 360's lack of graphics

Banned in only 6 posts?



mantlepiecek said:
mendozahotness said:
mantlepiecek said:

Never, never use future-proof and 360 in the same sentence again. Do not forget the RROD, the E71 errors and all the other crap that it has come up with.

The PS3 has it's share of hardware problems as well, besides that's about reliability. Futureproofing is something else.

mantlepiecek said:

If anything is actually future-proof, its the PC.

Yeah, you can play the best looking games if you upgrade it, which is the complete opposite of futureproofing. That what you buy day 0 doesn't need to be upgraded to play games releases in 2 years time.

mantlepiecek said:

PS3 is easily more future-proof then the 360, the HDD because of which Rage has an advantage, and better graphics too. Those 90 to 95 % of the games no one will actually buy all of them, and many of them are older ones now, so it doesn't matter.

Doesn't matter how many people buy them as long as a single copy exists. All you can say is if you walked into a store, purchased Bulletstorm, Crysis 2, Black Ops you'll need the oldest console this gen to play them optimally. Hard drive or not.

And? Reliablity matters a lot in future so it does matter in future-proofing. If my system fails every year that's hardly called future-proof. Oh and it did fail(for me at least) every year, btw.

Carmack himself has said it that the HDD gives an advantage to the PS3, and the blu-ray, seriously what future-proof are you talking about in relation to the 360? It uses old DVD media which has started to show its age with Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 already, even Castlevania has 2 Discs.

No one buys older games, and the small quantity that do, do not matter. There are more people now who have a PC that can run GTA 4 properly then people who do have a 360 that can run GTA 4 properly along with an HDTV. With time, more people start buying new PCs and end up getting temporary gaming PCs. So your so called "future proof" 360 didn't ever exist. And now that its reliablity is restored, the multiplats quality on the PS3 is also getting better (the irony). This year if you have observed 50 % of the games either look the same or run better on the PS3, or have some kind of DLC exclusivity. The only exception is Bulletstorm. Stacking, de blob 2, Dead Space 2, Marvel vs Capcom 3, Dragon Age 2, are all better or the same on the PS3 according to either lens of truth or digitalfoundry. There's like 2 games that are better on the 360. Even Mass effect 2 is the same on both and it uses unreal engine as well.

Wrong, wrong again and dead wrong



reviniente said:
Pokemonking said:

i dont care rage is lame anyways and ofcourse someone would rather make a game on the 360 cause its easier due to 360's lack of graphics

Banned in only 6 posts?


I think he were banned in his first post, just that he could post another 5 while the mods got notice and decided to ban



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

mendozahotness said:
mantlepiecek said:

And? Reliablity matters a lot in future so it does matter in future-proofing. If my system fails every year that's hardly called future-proof. Oh and it did fail(for me at least) every year,

That's nice. I'd sooner have a console that might break that can run said games properly, then a console that never breaks and struggles to run games as well as the oldest hardware.

mantlepiecek said:

Carmack himself has said it that the HDD gives an advantage to the PS3, and the blu-ray, seriously what future-proof are you talking about in relation to the 360? It uses old DVD media which has started to show its age with Dead Space 2 and Mass Effect 2 already, even Castlevania has 2 Discs.

I niticed Resident Evil 4 on Gamecube had 2 discs and the PS2 version only had one, but still had inferior graphics. 360 games could be on 10 discs and it wouldn't matter, as long as the graphics are better.

Hell PS3 had an extra year of development for Mass Effect 2 and they still had to take out the AA and motion blur to get the game running as well as the oldest hardware.

mantlepiecek said:

No one buys older games, and the small quantity that do, do not matter. There are more people now who have a PC that can run GTA 4 properly then people who do have a 360 that can run GTA 4 properly along with an HDTV. With time, more people start buying new PCs and end up getting temporary gaming PCs. So your so called "future proof" 360 didn't ever exist.

Sorry, unless they bought their PCS in November 2005, they don't count.

mantlepiecek said:

And now that its reliablity is restored, the multiplats quality on the PS3 is also getting better (the irony).

What you find it ironic that the newest hardware this generation is running the utmost worst version of the software?
Xbox software has enjoyed this level of polish for years.

mantlepiecek said:

The only exception is Bulletstorm.  Even Mass effect 2 is the same on both and it uses unreal engine as well.

And Crysis 2 and Test Drive Unlimited 2 and Fight Night Champions and Marvel Vs Capcom 3, that's just the last 2 months, brin in 2010 and you got Mafia 2, GTA:EFLC, RDR, Bayonetta, Dead Rising, BLOPS..IT'S ENDLESS

mantlepiecek said:

Even Mass effect 2 is the same on both and it uses unreal engine as well.

Nope, it has no AA or motion blur on PS3...and its a year late.

 

 

 


And of course you ignore the quality of Sony 1st party studios... and MSAA that KZ3 have... and that all the games you listed can't compare to any of these 3: God of War 3, Killzone 3 or Uncharted 2... so your future proof console is worth only for mesly done multiplat games?



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."