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M.U.G.E.N on 10 March 2011
jarrod said:
M.U.G.E.N said:


the fact that you can't see any difference beyond that is just sad. I won't even bother educating you on it.

yep and Nintendo are proven leaders alright! :P look how great the Wii is doing leading the home consoles in Japan. after ps1 and ps2 leading the way in the market and having such a strong presense, HW AND SW, Ninty won one gen and BAM! what a sorry state home consoles are in in comaprison to back then. You are right, lol it definitely is Sony's fault too (so is the war in Iraq I hear...also the japanese Psychez....)

Keep those theories coming, I find them highly amusing

lol, you won't bother?  You never tried?!  Just tell me, what are these numerous and clear differences between the segmented home and handheld console markets this gen?  

As far as Nintendo, the sales speak for themselves.  Even though it's a relative flop in the region, Wii still somehow managed to get more Japanese 2 million sellers than PS1 or PS2 ever did, and that's largely on Nintendo's back alone.  They're a stunning leader, they've pretty much reinvented the JP market twice over now, it's just almost no one else wanted to follow (on Wii at least, plenty followed their rise to heaven on the market leading DS). 


again :D not gonna bother to explain the differences between home consoles and handhelds to you..look it up

and yea stunning indeed! stunning turnaround....Like i said dude I agree with you, Sony is to blame for the lack luster performance that the wii is showing now...stunning stuff. you have clearly PROVED that.Especially the 2million seller argument..phew...can't beat that...everybody with a Japanese Psyche knows that's what's shows the influence and strength of a marker leader in a region.....

:P



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ddffaaa on 10 March 2011


ddffaaa on 10 March 2011

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FinalEvangelion on 11 March 2011
jarrod said:
M.U.G.E.N said:

-_- ok nvm with that statement you made you just proved what type of a dreamy world you live in. LOl indeed. Press coverage does dictate what a market is. Publishers not making games for home consoles really shows that it's the same market. oh wait. but yea nvm you are absolutely right, what you mentioned are definitely what dictates what a market is or not. Brilliant logic there...

cheerleading? :P now now don't get pissy. I'm just stating a fact. All your ramblings about Japanese PSYCHE etc etc you always end up with HW and SW sales and entries. I repeat just because Wii, despite being the market leader for the market it repesents, is weak and perforiming even worse than a console that is more expensive than it and has been for some time DOES not mean you can define your own lil theory on what a market is and why handheld and home console are the SAME market. I repeat, not the same market.

and true if PS3 did better home console sales market would have done better imo too. You are right, sony dropped the ball there. nintendo is not at fault here by any means. Sony would have surely proved to be a better market leader imo too. At least it's getting more SW support than the current market leader. At least those silly people who bought a home console without knowing about the 'new reality' you seem to be aware of will get something to keep them company. Good things the devs who make exclusive home consoles didn't get your memo either. For the sake of those who do not share the same Japanese Psyche as you do, please don't send it to them..pleeeeeeeease?

So... what exactly does dictate what the market is?  If you play your machine on the subway/toilet/couch or just on the couch?  That's it?

Sony's pretty much proven how well they can lead this gen.  The biggest userbase decline in Japanese history combined with a platform whose fluke success is attributable to Capcom alone pretty much.  Today's SCEI couldn't lead their way out of a paper bag.


I suppose it's hard for you to give Sony where credit is due.  That's okay, though.  MH would probably not have the same success on the DS where it was saturated with stuff already.  Also, gamers are buying other stuff on the PSP besides MH and that's why it's being supported like it is.  The initial interest to fuel the PSP rebirth started when the slim came out with Crisis Core.

And as much as you like to tout the failure of the PS3 and dance about it, there has been no console in history that almost went into oblivion and pulled themselves out of it.

For all the expertise on Japanese culture you claim, have you lived there?  Been there before?  When I lived there, I can say that the two markets (handheld & console) are two distinctly different segments.  The difference from the West is that the handheld market is the primary market while the console market is the secondary market.  They are still different segments.

 

The Wii was clearly the market leader in its segment and Sony got smart. Nintendo was basking in all their profits and seemingly invincible sales and forgot about having a longer term plan to keep the success going.  The casuals (which was their main market) are very trend oriented and care about what others are doing more than the core.  The sales pattern of the Wii clearly show that.

 

Just because you don't like Sony doesn't change the fact that they pulled out of their bad position better than other non-leading consoles ever did in history.  And yes, Sony had alot to do with it.  Yes, Sony spent tons of money to get the PS3 back on track.  Sure, it may seem like a failure.  However, investors care more about profits going forward than the sunk costs.  SCE is looking to be profitable going forward.  Sunk costs give lessons on how to approach future projects (like the PS4 and NGP).  I can assure you that Kaz Hirai knows more what he is doing than Ken Kutaragi in this aspect.

 

Saying that "SCEI can't lead their way out of a paper bag" is quite the contrary this generation.  They did quite well being in one of the worst positions in gaming history at the beginning of the generation.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

Bruno Muñoz on 11 March 2011

PSP  userbase, over 17 million.

Million seller list:

-  Monster Hunter Portable 3rd

- Monster Hunter Portable 2 G

- Monster Hunter Freedom 2 

Half-million seller list:

- Dissidia: Final Fantasy

- Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII

- Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker

- Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep

- Monster Hunter Freedom

- Phantasy Star Portable

- God Eater

- Phantasy Star Portable 2

- Monster Hunter Diary: Poka Poka Airu Village

This is a terrible list for a console with such a huge userbase, everything but Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Kingdom Hearts are Monster Hunter titles and clones, so yes, PSP is a "platform whose fluke success is attributable to Capcom alone pretty much".

By the way, I don't detract this system, all weeks I point out its great performance, but figures never lie.

 



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Bruno Muñoz on 11 March 2011

21. / 26. [WII] Wii Party (Nintendo) {2010.07.08}
22. / 00. [3DS] Super Monkey Ball 3D (Sega) {2011.03.03}
23. / 18. [NDS] Yu-Gi-Oh! 5D’s World Championship 2011: Over the Nexus (Konami) {2011.02.24}
24. / 19. [PS3] Marvel Vs. Capcom 3: Fate of Two Worlds (Capcom) {2011.02.17}
25. / 11. [PS3] Rune Factory: Oceans (Marvelous Entertainment) {2011.02.24}
26. / 31. [PSP] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2011 (Konami) {2010.11.18}
27. / 33. [WII] Wii Fit Plus (Nintendo) {2009.10.01}
28. / 23. [PSP] Tales of the World: Radiant Mythology 3 (Bandai Namco) {2011.02.10}
29. / 35. [PS3] World Soccer Winning Eleven 2011 (Konami) {2010.10.28}
30. / 36. [NDS] Inazuma Eleven 3: World Challenge!! The Ogre (Level 5) {2010.12.16}
31. / 37. [NDS] Magician's Quest: The Merchant’s Store of Sorcery (Konami) {2010.11.11}
32. / 30. [WII] Samurai Warriors 3: Xtreme Legends (Koei Tecmo) {2011.02.10}
33. / 25. [3DS] Bust-A-Move Universe (Square Enix) {2011.02.26}
34. / 12. [WII] SD Gundam G Generation: World (Bandai Namco) {2011.02.24}
35. / 32. [NDS] Ni no Kuni: The Ebony Wizard (Level 5) {2010.12.09}
36. / 00. [NDS] Fly Mr. Science: Great Expedition of the Earth! Challenge the Mysterious and Strange Creatures (Bandai Namco) {2011.03.03}
37. / 00. [WII] New Super Mario Bros. Wii (Nintendo) {2009.12.03}
38. / 39. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (w/ Remote Plus) (Nintendo) {2010.11.11}
39. / 41. [WII] Mario Kart Wii (Nintendo) {2008.04.10}
40. / 28. [3DS] Combat of Giants: Dinosaurs 3D (Ubisoft) {2011.02.26}
41. / 44. [WII] Momotaro Railway 2010: Sengoku Ishin no Hero Daishuugou! no Maki [Everyone's Recommendation Selection] (Hudson) {2011.01.20}
42. / 14. [PSP] Harukanaru Toki no Naka de 5 (Koei Tecmo) {2011.02.24}
43. / 10. [360] The Idolmaster 2 (Bandai Namco) {2011.02.24}
44. / 46. [NDS] New Super Mario Bros. (Nintendo) {2006.05.25}
45. / 00. [3DS] Shanghai 3D Cube (Sunsoft) {2011.03.03}
46. / 29. [PS3] Two Worlds II (Ubisoft) {2011.02.17}
47. / 42. [PSP] Kenka Bancho 5: Laws of Manhood (Spike) {2011.01.27}
48. / 50. [WII] Taiko Drum Master Wii 3 (Bandai Namco) {2010.12.02}
49. / 49. [NDS] Friend Collection (Nintendo) {2009.06.18}
50. / 48. [PSP] Macross: Triangle Frontier (Bandai Namco) {2011.02.03}


3DS - 10
NDS - 10
PSP - 10
WII - 10
PS3 - 9
360 - 1
PS2 - 0

 

 



jarrod on 12 March 2011
pezus said:

Ironic, since they practically did that while Nintendo tripped on party hats and money sacks and fell into the same bag.

I dunno, GT5 seems pretty emblematic of Sony's leadership this gen (overbudget, overdue, overreaching), and the sort of results they can manage.  Meanwhile, Nintendo released a western made 2D platformer that's going to double it's sales.  Hell, Nintendo just repressed a SNES platformer on a Wii disc to similar effect.

Spending your way out of oblivion isn't leadership.  Though yes, Nintendo could've learned that lesson a little better and opened that warchest a bit more for 3rd parties.  Doesn't really matter all that much though, DS still raped everyone sideways.

We'll see with NGP though.  At the moment it's success looks entirely dependent on Sony's ability to secure Monster Hunter, which is a pretty scary position to be in.



Carl on 12 March 2011
Bruno Muñoz said:

This is a terrible list for a console with such a huge userbase, everything but Final Fantasy, Metal Gear and Kingdom Hearts are Monster Hunter titles and clones, so yes, PSP is a "platform whose fluke success is attributable to Capcom alone pretty much".

By the way, I don't detract this system, all weeks I point out its great performance, but figures never lie.

Figures never lie, but thankfully those figures don't really matter.

What matters are the lists that jarrod posted earlier. With the games on for each system.

The PSP has tremendous support, which shows that developers are happy on the system despite many games not hitting the 1 Million/500k mark.



                            

jarrod on 12 March 2011
Carl2291 said:

Figures never lie, but thankfully those figures don't really matter.

What matters are the lists that jarrod posted earlier. With the games on for each system.

The PSP has tremendous support, which shows that developers are happy on the system despite many games not hitting the 1 Million/500k mark.

Look at the sorts of games PSP's getting though... it's mainly cheap ADV ports, licensed shovelware and MoHun clones at this point, numbers alone don't tell the whole story.   It's actually a lot like the late term support we saw with PCE CD-ROM2 or Saturn.... there a few standouts, but overall it's heavily concentrated in a few genres and mostly releases tailored to niche markets. 

DS really isn't in much better shape though (it's almost entirely licensed shovelware now), and Wii is a lolwasteland.  360 and PS3 seem to still get a few games, but almost everyone is concentrating on 3DS and gearing up for NGP at this point.  Japan's ready for nextgen.



09tarheel on 12 March 2011

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I read through this thread a little while ago and saw the debate about consoles/handhelds and if they are separate markets. Just now I read an interview from Capcom talking about the 3DS and here is what they had to say.

GI: Capcom is big player in the handheld market, particularly in Japan. There are obviously some very exciting new prospects in that arena at the minute. How exciting is it to have that new hardware to work on?

Christian Svensson: Absolutely thrilling. We have a lot of projects that are in the works for handheld platforms. Stationary consoles, if you will, have migrated down to the portables. There's some really exciting content that we're talking about. I think if you look at 3DS as an example of what can be done, it's extremely robust.

Link

Obviously one developer/company doesn't mean everyone feels that way, but I thought it was interesting that he seems to subscribe to the portables filling the need of home consoles theory.