"Ugh...just when I'd almost forgotten about you."

Such a lousy memory...

"It is Sony's job to hype a system. I think there are already games for both HD systems that show Toy Story graphics or better. That's pixar. There was some game screens probably on this site somewhere that showed Toy Story versus some game that looked better. It might have been FF13, but I'm not sure."

Oh, you mean those "target renders" like Motorstorm or KillZone? Or are you referring just to the CG screens from FF13?

"4-D? Ugh...does that include time or are you trying to say they really thought that more than 3-dimensional games were going to appear? Come on."

Come on. Those were Sony's words, not mine. I am only commenting on what they themselves said; I'm not making up the hype, they are.

"I just don't know why that upsets you. Microsoft has claimed a lot of things as well. I'm not bothered that Sony hypes their system."

I'm not upset. Still, pound for pound, the Sony hype train is the one that keeps charging ahead despite continuous derailments. Microsoft hasn't been derailed nearly as many times and Nintendo has hardly derailed at all.

"As far as online hate, I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here. I definitely agree that some people are unreasonably against Sony, but I'm pretty sure it's not because they tried to hype their system. If it is, then great, I'm sorry people are upset. I'd be more upset with the ripoff that Microsoft is trying to pull with their add-ons, online, and Elite (especially for current owners). But whatever, everyone has their likes and dislikes."

I'm not trying to prove anything except what is true: word for word, Sony is the one being picked on by the media. Not Microsoft, not Nintendo, but Sony. Yes, everyone has their likes and dislikes. Testament to that are the sales numbers.

"Sony may exagerate, but they clearly do have the most powerful system that is worth $800 or so wholesale, and have had very few problems thus far with the hard drive."

Um, it's not worth $800 wholesale. It's worth less than the $600 price tag it is being sold at (or did you think retailers are subsidizing Sony by paying 800 bucks, then selling it for a 200 dollar loss?).

"They have honestly built the most reliable high-tech console in a very long time if not ever. The games are definitely coming. Elder Scrolls got a nice graphical increase for the PS3 version (and much faster load times), Lair (which is what this topic is about) looks great to me, but there will be games that look better than both so I think you should just have some patience."

I have patience. So do 110million PS2 owners - 3.15 PS3 owners who have incredibly patience waiting for these 4D games to materialize - again, testament to that are the hardware sales.

But you are absolutely right. Let's be patient and wait while the rest of the world moves on.

 Yes, the FF13 cinematics.  It's already here.  I don't really care what Sony said the system would do years ago.  I'm not sure why you do either.  It's already doing things no other console has done, so it's not like there is much patience required.  The console was worth $800 and Sony is the company that took the loss, obviously not the retailers.

I have patience for FF13, because I have a lot of other stuff to play inbetween that I'm not judging against some standard that Sony or whoever claimed the PS3 would meet.  The fact is it's more powerful and we'll see that.  I just really don't understand what your problem is.  If you aren't upset at Sony for these claims then why are you constantly bringing it up?  What difference does it make at this point?  All that matters is what is and what is isn't bad.  What will be will be great.  If you disagree, then fine.  Lair doesn't look like Gears of War (that was you that originally brought that up right?  afterall, my memory of you is shady since I find this debate rather stupid) because it's a different game type.  If it doesn't live up to your standards then don't play it. 

Btw, I think overhyping a system is a much better practice than Microsoft's paying people to hype their system. Kinda reminds me of your arguments.

Also, I was too easy on this whole "the press is nice to Nintendo and Microsoft but hates Sony." Really? Because I'm pretty sure Home and Littlebigplanet were well received, especially the latter. The Elite has gotten hardly anything but terrible press because it's the stupidest move they've made in quite awhile. I'm sure EVERYONE was all excited about microsoft paying people to chat up the bright side of their system, huh?

As for Nintendo, the fact that they won't allow developers to have online games until they do is just great. I'm sure everyone loves that as well. Screw third parties.

EDIT:  I'm sure folding@home and plans to use PS3s as supercomputers are generating negative press as well.  Doubling the output to attempt to solve problems relating to terrible diseases.  Just terrible, Sony, terrible. 

"Yes, the FF13 cinematics.  It's already here."

If it's pre-rendered, then there is nothing special at all. If it is done in-game, then kudos; otherwise, LOTR looks mighty sweet too.

"I don't really care what Sony said the system would do years ago.  I'm not sure why you do either."

"It's already doing things no other console has done,"

Like folding. Great for games. 

"so it's not like there is much patience required."

But... you yourself said to have patience! 

"The console was worth $800 and Sony is the company that took the loss, obviously not the retailers."

Thanks for clarifying that up, because from your original sentence it seemed like the retailers were doing the subsidizing on Sony's behalf. 

"I have patience for FF13,"

So... what is it? Have patience, don't have patience, or have a certain degree of patience? 

"because I have a lot of other stuff to play inbetween that I'm not judging against some standard that Sony or whoever claimed the PS3 would meet."

That's great for you, and great for Sony as well. However, I somehow think that many consumers are in fact judging the standards that Sony themselves set yet failed themselved to meet.

"The fact is it's more powerful and we'll see that."

Yes, you are right. We will see in the unforeseen future... 

"I just really don't understand what your problem is.  If you aren't upset at Sony for these claims then why are you constantly bringing it up? What difference does it make at this point?  All that matters is what is and what is isn't bad."

Some people would consider the barrage of lies hype that Sony marketed as "bad".

"What will be will be great.  If you disagree, then fine.  Lair doesn't look like Gears of War (that was you that originally brought that up right?  afterall, my memory of you is shady since I find this debate rather stupid)"

...yet you continue... 

"because it's a different game type.  If it doesn't live up to your standards then don't play it."

That's one thing I absolutely agree with you on; why play an overhyped, underachieving game that isn't worth my time or money? (And before you come back on a rampage, note I did NOT mention that said game was Lair...)

Have patience for even better games while enjoying the great ones already. Overhyped games differ upon who you are. To me, Halo 1 and 2 are way overhyped, and Halo 3 is even worse. Why should you judge the worth of games based on what Sony said years ago? Why not judge them on what they are now and how good they are compared to what else is out there? It just seems to me that you're upset by these "lies" even though it has nothing to do with now. The other companies lie as well, so what. If you were fooled then, then shame on you. I'd move on if I were you, and judge games based on other criteria.  If you aren't impressed that cinematics (CG, pre-rendered, whatever you want to call it) look like high-production movies, then I don't know what to tell you.  You still have to have a system powerful enough to display those images and enough space on the disc.  It's not like an N64 could display those cut scenes.  Gameplay graphics are also a lot better.

Btw, you didn't respond to my other post yet, but another addition to my response on this press thing:

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/wii/game/features/article.jsp?releaseId=20060308165433320026&articleId=2007040911262588028&sectionId=1003

What difference does it make how many people were exposed to what? You were exposed to both, so I guess you just equally distrust Microsoft.

Do you own a next-gen system? Just curious.

As for the Wii and third parties...purposely withholding online support is just another sign that they don't want third party games to succeed as much as their games. If you read my link up there http://www.gamesradar.com/us/wii/game/features/article.jsp?releaseId=20060308165433320026&articleId=2007040911262588028&sectionId=1003

or there, you'll notice that Nintendo has had this attitude for quite some time.

Sure, the Wii is selling great right now. Why not take complete advantage of that?! Why not release a system that is more powerful so all the multi-platform games could be on the Wii? Too late for that for now. Why not have a ton of online games to take people away from Live like Sony is trying to do? People have been gaming online for a long time on the PC, so it's not like people don't play online. Hell, over 10% of Korea owns Starcraft the last I checked, and that game is played online still today.

I never bought a Gamecube but if Mario Kart was online I would have. I loved double dash and play it any time I get together with friends that have it, but not having online play for that was very sad. Same goes with super smash bros.

I guess Wii owners will just need "patience" when it comes to online games, huh?

"Have patience for even better games while enjoying the great ones already.  Overhyped games differ upon who you are.  To me, Halo 1 and 2 are way overhyped, and Halo 3 is even worse."

Dunno about Halo 2 and 3, but I never got into ANY console FPS mainly because of the controls. I played Halo 1 for about an hour, then went back to my PC for FPS. 

"Why should you judge the worth of games based on what Sony said years ago?  Why not judge them on what they are now and how good they are compared to what else is out there?"

In that case, it can't be any better (checking reviews as I write this).

"It just seems to me that you're upset by these "lies" even though it has nothing to do with now.  The other companies lie as well, so what.  If you were fooled then, then shame on you.  I'd move on if I were you, and judge games based on other criteria."

"Btw, you didn't respond to my other post yet, but another addition to my response on this press thing: 

http://www.gamesradar.com/us/wii/game/features/article.jsp?releaseId=20060308165433320026&articleId="

I've got news for you, Ms windbane, o great personal assistant to the CEO: It takes time to type. But fret not, I've read that before and I will answer, point-by-point the gamesradar article:

"And if Nintendo bites the bullet and gives the machine a visual kick in the pants, well there goes its whole mantra that graphics don't matter. There's just enough steam with this idea to last one generation, and none after that."

Right on. The problem with this argument is that Nintendo is not going to never improve on graphics again. Their philosophy is to simply make graphics that are "good enough". Perhaps (cartainly?) by the next generation of consoles, Nintendo will still be far behind the power curve compared to Sony and Microsoft. That is fine by their reckoning, because it just needs to be "good enough".

Graphics are a moving target; when Nintendo said what they said, I seriously doubt they meant "we'll stick with 480p until we die". I think they are more along the lines of "if it is going to drive the price of the console past $250, then we don't want it".

And, people buying the Wii are not really looking at graphics - if they did, they'd own a 360 or PS3.

Virtual Boy: The only thing good coming from the Virtual Boy was Gunpei Yokoi. That, and the fact that Nintendo was the only company with the "chutzpah" to try something so radically different (cue DS, Wii). The greater the risk, the greater the success or failuer. VB failed miserably. No questions there.

""Customer's don't want online games." - Nintendo president Satoru Iwata, 2004"

Dumb, dumb, dumb. Perhaps Iwata was referring to the fact that the majority gamers in Nintendo's pie  don't want online (I sure as hell do). I hope they bring this out sometime, but frankly, I hate the fact that friend codes are just a thinly veiled disguist for Nintendo's paranoid belief that we all are, the greater or lesser extents, pedophiles. That's what I feel, and shame on them.

No blood = kiddy image - it's being rid of as we speak. Good riddance.

3rd Party support: It's getting better now, but back then one of the reasons Nintendo lost their dominance was due to this lack of support; the same reason why I never bought the GCN; it offered me nothing new compared to the N64, and with limited 3rd party games to boot.

N64: Apart from the superior graphics compared to the Saturn and PS1 (and the controller, which I happened to love), yes, it sucked donkey balls. Only a few choice games kept it from being an utter failure.

Of course, who can forget the folly of Nintendo and Sony co-developing the CD-ROM? Fiasco No 1, bar none. Without this panning out the way it did, the entire videogame landscape would be completely different.

There - replied.

Now how about you? Explain this to me:

"...You can experience the 4D world."  I'm sorry, but where is the fourth "D" in PS3 games?

Did you " think to [yourself] 'I will work more hours to buy one'"?

Did you "feel that [you] want it, irrespective of anything else..."?

Was "discipline instilled into you after buying the PS3", or was that done by the marketing spiel alone? Hey, we all know "discipline" is, right? Were you properly disciplined?

 Did you work extra hours/land an extra job like they wanted you to?

"What difference does it make how many people were exposed to what? You were exposed to both, so guess you just equally distrust Microsoft."

It makes a world of difference - or did you think that internet buzz doesn't amount to anything? The point is, MS buzz is barely audible; Sony's buzzing needs to be turned down.

"Do you own a next-gen system? Just curious."

Yes, do you?

sigh...this bickering sure is fun to read.