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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony's Request For IP Addresses Granted

Sony bought the supreme court... no suprises.



"Defeating a sandwich, only makes it tastier." - Virginia

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"Defeating a sandwich, only makes it tastier." - Virginia

theprof00 said:
thranx said:

Are you trying to say american law is not open to interpretaion? I mean that is the whole point of a new precedent, I know the laws are not rewritten, hence why i said "bend the law/create new law through interpretation." I should have worded it better. It changes how the laws are viewed and judged by the judges, and this does change. That is what I fear. Its a very valid fear in this day in with coroporations who put profit over other things.

Let me try to clarify this "argument".

What you are saying, is that there is no law against what Geohotz did. Is that correct? I gather that this is your point due to your reference to "bending" or "precedent" or anything similar. I assume that what you are saying is that no law exists, and that it will take a different interpretation of another law to CREATE this new precedent in which this case can be referred to in future cases or used to create new exemptions.

Read up on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Millennium_Copyright_Act

Now I don't believe that using the ps3 rootkey is protected by DMCA as it's not cracking any of its security, but Geohot distributed this code which can be used to circumvent piracy security. That's covered under the DMCA. He doesn't have to create any program or hack to enable piracy. All he has to do is distribute the code to allow for security circumvention. (Which is what he did). Also, the DMCA protects against reverse engineering, and if they can prove that (which they can), then that's another thing against Geohot.

As such, it is not a different "interpretation" that Sony needs. They just need the court to follow the letter of the law. Geohot winning would be a landmark case, not the opposite. If Geohot were to win, his precedent would allow for reverse engineering and programs would become available that automated reverse engineering, and came with instructions on how to create whatever you wanted to pirate without security measures.

Imagine, instead of downloading a pirated/cracked game, you would download an automated reverse engineering program (for example, something like a bit-torrent program) and then downloaded the game, and the program would crack the game for you using an instruction set that you downloaded for the specific game. That is what Geohot winning this case would allow. This would also allow for any company to reverse engineer a product and then resell it under their own brand. He is NOT going to win.

As far as what i have read what he did was akin to jailbreaking your device for your use and posting instrucutions for others to do so. Which as far as I knew was similar to the iphone case which apple loss. Thus the precedent would be in hotz favor albeit a difference device.

 

In regards to your exapmle i do not see how that is the case. It would be the person that uploaded the game for download or downloaded the game who should be punushed. Not the person who created the program. It is illegal to pirate software already. Maybe I am confused by your example. But please tell me how this differs from jailbreaking any device



thranx said:

As far as what i have read what he did was akin to jailbreaking your device for your use and posting instrucutions for others to do so. Which as far as I knew was similar to the iphone case which apple loss. Thus the precedent would be in hotz favor albeit a difference device.

 

In regards to your exapmle i do not see how that is the case. It would be the person that uploaded the game for download or downloaded the game who should be punushed. Not the person who created the program. It is illegal to pirate software already. Maybe I am confused by your example. But please tell me how this differs from jailbreaking any device

First of all, jailbreaking a phone, (see that link i posted) is one of the only exemptions because phones require a carrier and you cannot be limited to a carrier. It took years upon years to get consumer phone rights, starting with keeping your phone number upon switching carriers, to lowered security deposits etc etc. It was deemed anti-consumer to force customers to use the exclusive carrier because it wasn't fair both to the consumer AND to other companies who wanted to offer better rates. That is the sole reason that jailbreaking phones was allowed. Granted, the jailbreak occurred before the exemption, so the DMCA had to be altered to allow it, which is similar to this case, but disimilarly, there is no consumer infringment occurring with the ps3/ Additionally, the main function of jailbreaking a phone is to switch carriers, while jailbreaking a ps3 does not carry that same obvious reason except for piracy.

It is for those reasons combined that jailbreaking of phones was allowed, and why the hacker won that case.

And referring to my example, that is exactly what would happen because the person who uploaded the game would be uploading the full game, which is protected from unauthorized use by cdkey and security measures. So, on its own, uploading the game is not punishable. It is perfectly legal, and in many cases you can download the full games from many online sites, but then need to buy a cd-key to use. So, according to my example, and in reference to geohotz crack, this would enable people to upload full games, and then use his method of reverse engineering (which he is currently being sued for) to crack the games themselves.



THis pisses me off just because I have nothing to do with sony, Nor do I own a ps3. WTF do they get access to anything of mine for. They shouldn't and should be against the law.  I hit a link on this site so sony can do as they please with my IP. I don't care if they got if I want them to but If I dont', I don't. Thats the point there is nothing to be worried about but our rights and I am sick of corperate scum like sony getting in my F-cking pants. I also would be very pissed if my address is handed out all over. There is people I don't much care for out there. I would not want them to access my address because it just ok, it's not. SO FUSONY.



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most people who visited the sites for naughty purposes are probably behind 7 proxies anyway lol



Proud Sony Rear Admiral

bannedagain said:

THis pisses me off just because I have nothing to do with sony, Nor do I own a ps3. WTF do they get access to anything of mine for. They shouldn't and should be against the law.  I hit a link on this site so sony can do as they please with my IP. I don't care if they got if I want them to but If I dont', I don't. Thats the point there is nothing to be worried about but our rights and I am sick of corperate scum like sony getting in my F-cking pants. I also would be very pissed if my address is handed out all over. There is people I don't much care for out there. I would not want them to access my address because it just ok, it's not. SO FUSONY.


they can't do anything with your IP. If anything ever happened to your dislike from them "having" your IP, You would be able to sue Sony for millions upon millions.

You visited his site. So what? BFD. Sony doesn't care who you are or what you did. All they care about is if you are FROM California. Then, still they don't care about you. You're a statistic, that's it. You're a case for Sony to point at Geohot and say, "Californian PS3 base is severely disrupted by Geohot, and it's one of our base of operations, and where all our imports come in.. etc etc". That's all you are to Sony.

So get off your high horse, and take off the tinfoil hat. I've been to his site a dozen times to read all the crazy things he has to say. I'm not worried because if Sony were to do anything with our IPs EXCEPT in the case to prove Geohot guilty, they would be sued in a big way, and would probably have their geohot case overturned on top of it all, and have to pay his fees and time and everything.

The sky is NOT falling. Relax, as business as usual (including the usual attempts to tear down Sony) will continue.



theprof00 said:

You visited his site. So what? BFD. Sony doesn't care who you are or what you did. All they care about is if you are FROM California. Then, still they don't care about you. You're a statistic, that's it. You're a case for Sony to point at Geohot and say, "Californian PS3 base is severely disrupted by Geohot, and it's one of our base of operations, and where all our imports come in.. etc etc". That's all you are to Sony.


Sony is more resourceful that you give them credits for.

You're saying that Sony cannot use the data collected for multiple other uses? That's like giving a kid a lighter and tell him that he can only use it to light cigs and expected him to not use it for anything else.



theprof00 said:
bannedagain said:

THis pisses me off just because I have nothing to do with sony, Nor do I own a ps3. WTF do they get access to anything of mine for. They shouldn't and should be against the law.  I hit a link on this site so sony can do as they please with my IP. I don't care if they got if I want them to but If I dont', I don't. Thats the point there is nothing to be worried about but our rights and I am sick of corperate scum like sony getting in my F-cking pants. I also would be very pissed if my address is handed out all over. There is people I don't much care for out there. I would not want them to access my address because it just ok, it's not. SO FUSONY.


they can't do anything with your IP. If anything ever happened to your dislike from them "having" your IP, You would be able to sue Sony for millions upon millions.

You visited his site. So what? BFD. Sony doesn't care who you are or what you did. All they care about is if you are FROM California. Then, still they don't care about you. You're a statistic, that's it. You're a case for Sony to point at Geohot and say, "Californian PS3 base is severely disrupted by Geohot, and it's one of our base of operations, and where all our imports come in.. etc etc". That's all you are to Sony.

So get off your high horse, and take off the tinfoil hat. I've been to his site a dozen times to read all the crazy things he has to say. I'm not worried because if Sony were to do anything with our IPs EXCEPT in the case to prove Geohot guilty, they would be sued in a big way, and would probably have their geohot case overturned on top of it all, and have to pay his fees and time and everything.

The sky is NOT falling. Relax, as business as usual (including the usual attempts to tear down Sony) will continue.


did you not read that I said It wasn't that I'm worred about anything. It was the pure right Of mine that they have it and I didn't want them to, Thats it. You get it or your so far up there arse that you don't get what rights mean. 



if they only need ip's to prove that CA is such a problem and targeted by geohotz  why are we seeing this also http://gamrfeed.vgchartz.com/story/84498/wtf-moment-of-the-week-magistrate-this/ . I mean how far do they have to go before you guys see they are invading our privacy (well not mine I have never been to geohotz site). Sad to see.