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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony makes yet another major mistake

Hyruken said:

Seems to me people think because they have the name "hacker" means they must have been up to no good pirating and what not. So they think Sony are doing good by catching these people.

But that isn't the case at all. These guys are honest and open about what they do and what they do is for private use, they haven't released anything.

In contrast other companies actually support this work. Look at whats happened with Kinect. All those hacks for it that people came up with. You don't see Microsoft beating down some dudes door taking away his Kinect dancing robot because that wasen't what the device was designed for! You don't see Android beating down all the doors of the people who create stuff for its open source network.

The reason why Sony are getting a beating in the media and on all the other games websites is because it boils down to freedom of using your product. That is what the case is about and what the courts will decide on. Wether you own your product or not. If you buy something you don't have the right to do anything to it. It must be left in the state you bought it. This could have massive reprecussions for gamers. Have you swapped your harddrive? Do you install custom mods to games? Do you maybe use a cheat? etc etc.

So pretty much those defending it are saying "if i pay £400 for a console i don't think i should own it, it should still be owned by the manafacturer. I am not allowed to alter it or change anything at all. And if i do i can go to jail or get a fine".

Which is just stupid.


Can anyone even use kinect to hack into xbox live and compromise security for microsoft? If not, then its a lot different than hacking the ps3 and microsoft simply doesn't lose anything from it.



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radiantshadow92 said:
Hyruken said:

Seems to me people think because they have the name "hacker" means they must have been up to no good pirating and what not. So they think Sony are doing good by catching these people.

But that isn't the case at all. These guys are honest and open about what they do and what they do is for private use, they haven't released anything.

In contrast other companies actually support this work. Look at whats happened with Kinect. All those hacks for it that people came up with. You don't see Microsoft beating down some dudes door taking away his Kinect dancing robot because that wasen't what the device was designed for! You don't see Android beating down all the doors of the people who create stuff for its open source network.

The reason why Sony are getting a beating in the media and on all the other games websites is because it boils down to freedom of using your product. That is what the case is about and what the courts will decide on. Wether you own your product or not. If you buy something you don't have the right to do anything to it. It must be left in the state you bought it. This could have massive reprecussions for gamers. Have you swapped your harddrive? Do you install custom mods to games? Do you maybe use a cheat? etc etc.

So pretty much those defending it are saying "if i pay £400 for a console i don't think i should own it, it should still be owned by the manafacturer. I am not allowed to alter it or change anything at all. And if i do i can go to jail or get a fine".

Which is just stupid.


Can anyone even use kinect to hack into xbox live and compromise security for microsoft? If not, then its a lot different than hacking the ps3 and microsoft simply doesn't lose anything from it.


I have no idea. But neither of the hackers who Sony went after did that either. Which again prooves my point that people see the word "hacker" and assume they must be doing something really bad like exploiting/pirating...



Hyruken said:
radiantshadow92 said:
Hyruken said:

Seems to me people think because they have the name "hacker" means they must have been up to no good pirating and what not. So they think Sony are doing good by catching these people.

But that isn't the case at all. These guys are honest and open about what they do and what they do is for private use, they haven't released anything.

In contrast other companies actually support this work. Look at whats happened with Kinect. All those hacks for it that people came up with. You don't see Microsoft beating down some dudes door taking away his Kinect dancing robot because that wasen't what the device was designed for! You don't see Android beating down all the doors of the people who create stuff for its open source network.

The reason why Sony are getting a beating in the media and on all the other games websites is because it boils down to freedom of using your product. That is what the case is about and what the courts will decide on. Wether you own your product or not. If you buy something you don't have the right to do anything to it. It must be left in the state you bought it. This could have massive reprecussions for gamers. Have you swapped your harddrive? Do you install custom mods to games? Do you maybe use a cheat? etc etc.

So pretty much those defending it are saying "if i pay £400 for a console i don't think i should own it, it should still be owned by the manafacturer. I am not allowed to alter it or change anything at all. And if i do i can go to jail or get a fine".

Which is just stupid.


Can anyone even use kinect to hack into xbox live and compromise security for microsoft? If not, then its a lot different than hacking the ps3 and microsoft simply doesn't lose anything from it.


I have no idea. But neither of the hackers who Sony went after did that either. Which again prooves my point that people see the word "hacker" and assume they must be doing something really bad like exploiting/pirating...

They enabled it, they opened the door for it all, hell, they displayed the keys to the system all over the internet, THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE.



All this is like making the XVid codec developers pay for all the pirated movies. It's surreal.



Hyruken said:
radiantshadow92 said:
Hyruken said:

In contrast other companies actually support this work. Look at whats happened with Kinect. All those hacks for it that people came up with. You don't see Microsoft beating down some dudes door taking away his Kinect dancing robot because that wasen't what the device was designed for! You don't see Android beating down all the doors of the people who create stuff for its open source networ

Can anyone even use kinect to hack into xbox live and compromise security for microsoft? If not, then its a lot different than hacking the ps3 and microsoft simply doesn't lose anything from it.


I have no idea. But neither of the hackers who Sony went after did that either. Which again prooves my point that people see the word "hacker" and assume they must be doing something really bad like exploiting/pirating...

Comparing Kinect hacking with the breaking of the Sony security model is pretty far fetched, to compare apples to apples here, Sony didn't go after anyone for making drivers for the EyeToy for use with Windows or Linux systems either.

As for the moral of the hackers involved, I don't think they are bad people, they have a very good point about people being allowed to install whatever they want on a system they own. However pretending that the major outcome of the hacking is that you be able to install a freeware copy of tetris on your system is acting delusional. No matter what the intent of the hackers where the direct result of their actions have been that game studios risk lower sales due to piracy and fellow gamers will get less enjoyment out of their games due to people cheating. And for a system which 99% buy to play games I think that the 'cost' of reduced game enjoyment isn't compensated for by the ability to run random apps on the PS3. Other people can differ on that point of course, but I don't think it is an unfair position to take. 



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So far Sony hasn't caught any of the hackers that are cheating online and messing with PSN. They only seem to catch the people that outright claim to be working on something for PS3. They must have the worst security ever.



Love the product, not the company. They love your money, not you.

-TheRealMafoo

buglebum said:
Scoobes said:
Hyruken said:

Just saw this on the news! Seems to have spread quite quickly.

The way they are reporting it is to basically say you don't own anything you buy from Sony and if you do anything to their product they will come raid you!

Which makes no sense to me....

If i buy anything that product becomes mine, i should be able to blow it up, jam megadrive cartridges in the cd player, paint it purple, do anything i like to it.

 

Sony wouldn't get anywhere if that's all they've got. It has to do with distribution of custom firmware me thinks. If it was solely down to hardware mods then none of this would/could happen. There are certain restrictions on software however.


Graf hasn't released any custom firmware

 

Sony are just heavy handed cunts, who need to get out of the past. With their jumped up old school japanese heartless attitudes. (Not racist, I'm referring to old japanese buisness style, which is how it was)

Yeah, I just did a quick google search and I'm not sure what exactly hs's done that's wrong. 

Don't agree with Geohot, but not sure what Sony's angle on this one is going to be.



"And to prove it, i kept my word and uploaded all my HV reversing stuff.


Upload it everywhere so SONY couldn’t remove it easily. Grab it guys, it contains lots of knowledge about HV and HV procs."

Anyone care to defend this confession?



Hyruken said:
radiantshadow92 said:
Hyruken said:

Seems to me people think because they have the name "hacker" means they must have been up to no good pirating and what not. So they think Sony are doing good by catching these people.

But that isn't the case at all. These guys are honest and open about what they do and what they do is for private use, they haven't released anything.

In contrast other companies actually support this work. Look at whats happened with Kinect. All those hacks for it that people came up with. You don't see Microsoft beating down some dudes door taking away his Kinect dancing robot because that wasen't what the device was designed for! You don't see Android beating down all the doors of the people who create stuff for its open source network.

The reason why Sony are getting a beating in the media and on all the other games websites is because it boils down to freedom of using your product. That is what the case is about and what the courts will decide on. Wether you own your product or not. If you buy something you don't have the right to do anything to it. It must be left in the state you bought it. This could have massive reprecussions for gamers. Have you swapped your harddrive? Do you install custom mods to games? Do you maybe use a cheat? etc etc.

So pretty much those defending it are saying "if i pay £400 for a console i don't think i should own it, it should still be owned by the manafacturer. I am not allowed to alter it or change anything at all. And if i do i can go to jail or get a fine".

Which is just stupid.


Can anyone even use kinect to hack into xbox live and compromise security for microsoft? If not, then its a lot different than hacking the ps3 and microsoft simply doesn't lose anything from it.


I have no idea. But neither of the hackers who Sony went after did that either. Which again prooves my point that people see the word "hacker" and assume they must be doing something really bad like exploiting/pirating...

The point is that its Sony or Microsoft choice to sue an hacker if he release complete or part of their software. If its not doing them any bad they will obviously not sue them (kinect case), this doesnt mean they couldnt if they wanted.

On topic, now the guy is pretty much guilty since he admit releasing the hypervisor code for download.

PS.: May I remind everyone that on PS2 there has been boot disc and mod chip for years without sony sueing anyone.



IMU1808 said:

"And to prove it, i kept my word and uploaded all my HV reversing stuff.


Upload it everywhere so SONY couldn’t remove it easily. Grab it guys, it contains lots of knowledge about HV and HV procs."

Anyone care to defend this confession?


Confession of what?

 

There's nothing wrong with releasing his research on HV exploiting.

 

You do realise the goals of these people is purely to run linux, right or wrong it's hardly a crime.