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Forums - Sony Discussion - Geohot Pleading with Community for Donations in PS3 Jailbreak Case

IMU1808 said:
fordy said:
Wagram said:

That's the lame excuse they're going to give.


How about this one....

If Sony wins this case, it will be the stepping stone towards bigger control by a corporation on goods that you purchase from now on. It might seem like much control now, but let several more cases go through, with more and more siding towards the corporatist front, since they're the ones with the money to fight for this.

The future will be comprised of options of what to buy, but once you buy it, your options are invalid. If you buy a car from GM, you'll only be able to use fuel from Exxon, Tyres from Bridgestone, all at insanely jacked up prices. Why? Because you will no longer have a say in what you do with the things that you buy.

Now, to all those that think that people that are against Sony in this case are automatically supporting piracy, the same could be said for the ones supporting Sony as ones who do not care about their freedom as a consumer, who support the corporatist movement, who WANT their lives to be dictated to them by the corporations, the very companies whose business plans do NOT include protecting the consumer, but to make money.

Logicians have a phrase for this fallacy. It's called "Slippery Slope".

Hey, if it can be used to support Sony's claim that the PS3 would turn into nothing but a wasteland for pirates, then it can be used in support against their intentions, too.



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voty2000 said:
fordy said:
Wagram said:

That's the lame excuse they're going to give.


How about this one....

If Sony wins this case, it will be the stepping stone towards bigger control by a corporation on goods that you purchase from now on. It might seem like much control now, but let several more cases go through, with more and more siding towards the corporatist front, since they're the ones with the money to fight for this.

The future will be comprised of options of what to buy, but once you buy it, your options are invalid. If you buy a car from GM, you'll only be able to use fuel from Exxon, Tyres from Bridgestone, all at insanely jacked up prices. Why? Because you will no longer have a say in what you do with the things that you buy.

Now, to all those that think that people that are against Sony in this case are automatically supporting piracy, the same could be said for the ones supporting Sony as ones who do not care about their freedom as a consumer, who support the corporatist movement, who WANT their lives to be dictated to them by the corporations, the very companies whose business plans do NOT include protecting the consumer, but to make money.

It's pointless to argue with these people.  They are simply bandwagon folks that suddenly became anti-modding when the PS3 was hacked.  None of these guys care about the Iphone being jail-broken or the Wii or the 360.  They could care less about their rights because it hurts their precious Sony.  Just be glad that their views make no difference in the grand scheme of things, only the courts views matter.  If it were up to them the PS3 would require DNA testing to log in and a Sony representative would come to their house and scan their PS3 before they can turn it on.  They are so blinded that they cannot see the bigger picture, which is basic rights.

 

I praised Microsoft for fighting against piracy/anti-modding on the Xbox 360 because it's just the right thing to do.  Same goes for Sony.  I've always been anti-piracy.  I'm an artist.  I understand the principle and application.  Maybe you're the one pointless to argue with.



scottie said:

This is hilarious

 

A guy manufacturers and sells a bunch of swiss army knives

Thousands of people buy them, and a fraction of those people use them to stab people.

The families of the stabbing victims do not press charges against the murders, but against the manufacturer of a perfectly safe, legal product.

The manufacturer is too poor to afford a lawyer, and appeals for donations

You people criticise him.

 

You are sticking up for Sony because you would stick up for Sony if the company personified itself, walked in and kicked a baby in the face. If this exact situation happened to any other company you would support geohot.

 

Donated. Not a huge amount cos I'm poor as hell, but I gave what I could.

 

GL geohot

Problem here is that SONY's the one doing the manufacturing and selling.
Geohot's the douche that told a bunch of people how to use the device he had nothing to do with the creation of, how to use that device in a way it was never intended. This led to the people using it in ways that violated the law such as piracy and rumor has it, also a way to punish those that are using the device the way it was originally intended and doing nothing wrong... But hey, let's let Geohot be... he's not a bad guy... It's not his fault that his actions led to something bad.



fordy said:
IMU1808 said:
fordy said:
Wagram said:

That's the lame excuse they're going to give.


How about this one....

If Sony wins this case, it will be the stepping stone towards bigger control by a corporation on goods that you purchase from now on. It might seem like much control now, but let several more cases go through, with more and more siding towards the corporatist front, since they're the ones with the money to fight for this.

The future will be comprised of options of what to buy, but once you buy it, your options are invalid. If you buy a car from GM, you'll only be able to use fuel from Exxon, Tyres from Bridgestone, all at insanely jacked up prices. Why? Because you will no longer have a say in what you do with the things that you buy.

Now, to all those that think that people that are against Sony in this case are automatically supporting piracy, the same could be said for the ones supporting Sony as ones who do not care about their freedom as a consumer, who support the corporatist movement, who WANT their lives to be dictated to them by the corporations, the very companies whose business plans do NOT include protecting the consumer, but to make money.

Logicians have a phrase for this fallacy. It's called "Slippery Slope".

Hey, if it can be used to support Sony's claim that the PS3 would turn into nothing but a wasteland for pirates, then it can be used in support against their intentions, too.


I don't remember that PR statement... but what ever.



scottie said:

Donated. Not a huge amount cos I'm poor as hell, but I gave what I could.

 

GL geohot


And there are a lot of those who are poorer than you who could have used what you donated to eat another meal.  But you're fighting the more humane fight.  Keep it up.



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Thanks for letting me know about this radiantshadow92. I donated $25. Hopefully he gets the support he needs to go up against Sony's legal muscle. 



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NiKKoM said:

Imagine if for some reason, Microsoft or Apple (Windows or Mac OSX) were acting like Sony, and that you couldn’t access anything on your computer without their authorization? You want to install Skype, you can’t because Microsoft didn’t “approve” it.. because they want you to use MSN Messenger instead… Then where is your freedom on your own machine? that's why I donated.

your argument is weak at best. when you buy a PC you know that "freedom" is implied and you also know that if you buy a PS3, X360, wii, psp or ds, that "freedom" is not available ... a console is putted in sale for you to play games, see movies and a few things more... if you don't agree don't buy it... if you buy a car that can do 200mph and you payed for that, even that doesn't give you the right to do it without the legal consequences... even more is you buying a thing that you know can't do stuff and you now starting to say you have a right for that stuff to be done buy the thing you bought.



Proudest Platinums - BF: Bad Company, Killzone 2 , Battlefield 3 and GTA4

Comparing the jailbreak of the iPhone with what is happening to the PS3 is a stretch, at best. The ruling for the jailbreak of the iPhone being legal states specifically that that ruling only applies to "wireless telephone handsets". On Tuesday, July 27, 2010, the Librarian of Congress created 6 new class of works that would be exempt from the DCMA, with 2 dealing specifically with jailbreaking of those "wireless telephone handsets".

The two classes as quoted from the Federal Register / Vol. 75 No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2010 / Rules and Regulations are:

"B. Computer programs that enable
wireless telephone handsets to execute
software applications, where
circumvention is accomplished for the
sole purpose of enabling
interoperability of such applications,
when they have been lawfully obtained,
with computer programs on the
telephone handset."

and:

"C. Computer programs, in the form of
firmware or software, that enable used
wireless telephone handsets to connect
to a wireless telecommunications
network, when circumvention is
initiated by the owner of the copy of the
computer program solely in order to
connect to a wireless
telecommunications network and
access to the network is authorized by
the operator of the network."

The first class is one that many people would see as applying to the PS3 for the case of homebrewing. However, it states specifically that this new class is in regards to wireless telephone handsets ONLY. The second class is probably the one most people know of, that allows people to jailbreak their phones so that they can use their phones on the wireless network provider of their choice.

What I find interesting is another class, that in all probablility not many people know about, that was introduced by the Librarian of Congress in the same document as stated above that deals specifically with video games and the circumvention of their security:

"D. Video games accessible on personal
computers and protected by
technological protection measures that
control access to lawfully obtained
works, when circumvention is
accomplished solely for the purpose of
good faith testing for, investigating, or
correcting security flaws or
vulnerabilities, if:
•The information derived from the
security testing is used primarily to
promote the security of the owner or
operator of a computer, computer
system, or computer network; and
•The information derived from the
security testing is used or maintained in
a manner that does not facilitate
copyright infringement or a violation of
applicable law."

This is where I think SONY could have a case if you say PS3s are PCs. If Geohot brought the weak security protection to SONY's attention beforehand so that SONY could look into it and not just post the key on his site for the world to see, I doubt SONY would be suing him. If PS3s are not PCs, then it could be argued that this class does not apply.

So yes, Geohot has every right to hack HIS system. But when he posted the keys to the PS3 for everyone and their mother to see while pretty much giving SONY the finger, he crossed a line. He broke and exposed a flaw in the PS3's "technological protection measures", but he didn't use this knowledge to help SONY fix it. What he really did by exposing this flaw in the way he did it is "facilitate copyright infringement".

Link to the Federal Register PDF: http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf



Tsudai said:

Comparing the jailbreak of the iPhone with what is happening to the PS3 is a stretch, at best. The ruling for the jailbreak of the iPhone being legal states specifically that that ruling only applies to "wireless telephone handsets". On Tuesday, July 27, 2010, the Librarian of Congress created 6 new class of works that would be exempt from the DCMA, with 2 dealing specifically with jailbreaking of those "wireless telephone handsets".

The two classes as quoted from the Federal Register / Vol. 75 No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2010 / Rules and Regulations are:

"B. Computer programs that enable
wireless telephone handsets to execute
software applications, where
circumvention is accomplished for the
sole purpose of enabling
interoperability of such applications,
when they have been lawfully obtained,
with computer programs on the
telephone handset."

and:

"C. Computer programs, in the form of
firmware or software, that enable used
wireless telephone handsets to connect
to a wireless telecommunications
network, when circumvention is
initiated by the owner of the copy of the
computer program solely in order to
connect to a wireless
telecommunications network and
access to the network is authorized by
the operator of the network."

The first class is one that many people would see as applying to the PS3 for the case of homebrewing. However, it states specifically that this new class is in regards to wireless telephone handsets ONLY. The second class is probably the one most people know of, that allows people to jailbreak their phones so that they can use their phones on the wireless network provider of their choice.

What I find interesting is another class, that in all probablility not many people know about, that was introduced by the Librarian of Congress in the same document as stated above that deals specifically with video games and the circumvention of their security:

"D. Video games accessible on personal
computers and protected by
technological protection measures that
control access to lawfully obtained
works, when circumvention is
accomplished solely for the purpose of
good faith testing for, investigating, or
correcting security flaws or
vulnerabilities, if:
•The information derived from the
security testing is used primarily to
promote the security of the owner or
operator of a computer, computer
system, or computer network; and
•The information derived from the
security testing is used or maintained in
a manner that does not facilitate
copyright infringement or a violation of
applicable law."

This is where I think SONY could have a case if you say PS3s are PCs. If Geohot brought the weak security protection to SONY's attention beforehand so that SONY could look into it and not just post the key on his site for the world to see, I doubt SONY would be suing him. If PS3s are not PCs, then it could be argued that this class does not apply.

So yes, Geohot has every right to hack HIS system. But when he posted the keys to the PS3 for everyone and their mother to see while pretty much giving SONY the finger, he crossed a line. He broke and exposed a flaw in the PS3's "technological protection measures", but he didn't use this knowledge to help SONY fix it. What he really did by exposing this flaw in the way he did it is "facilitate copyright infringement".

Link to the Federal Register PDF: http://www.copyright.gov/fedreg/2010/75fr43825.pdf


:::applause:::



IMU1808 said:
scottie said:

 

Problem here is that SONY's the one doing the manufacturing and selling.
Geohot's the douche that told a bunch of people how to use the device he had nothing to do with the creation of, how to use that device in a way it was never intended. This led to the people using it in ways that violated the law such as piracy and rumor has it, also a way to punish those that are using the device the way it was originally intended and doing nothing wrong... But hey, let's let Geohot be... he's not a bad guy... It's not his fault that his actions led to something bad.

 

Sorry if my analogy didnt make sense

 

Manufacturers of pocket knives provide the public with tools that can be used for good or bad, We don't blame them for people who misuse their product, we blame those misusing the knives.

 

Geohot is producing something that can be used for good or bad, but we are blaming Geohot instead of those who are creating and distributing (or even downloading) pirated games. Sony is very much sueing the wrong person and I am surprised so few Sony fans can acknowledge this.