Darc Requiem said: Albionus while I'm sure Nintendo is working on a DS successor, who is to say when its going to be released. The GBA was originally going to be launched in 1997 but the GBC was selling so well, Nintendo kept pushing back its debut. As for the Genesis and SNES debate, I can't believe this is still going on. The Genesis did have a faster CPU. Thats about it. The SNES had superior graphics and sound. Look up the specs. Not only was the SNES able to display 4 times the color and render in a higher resolution, it could to display more sprites on screen and larger sprites as well. EDIT: I don't know how I missed Albionus' post about the SNES/Genesis debate. He did a better job explaining the situation than I.

 It also allowed for chips to be added to increase the raw processing power ^^

That's why i said I love these forums, pretty much everyone is hugely knowledgable and some of the debates are utterly fantastic :) I get more enjoyment out of videogame sales figures than i do of videogame news laltely (except for the NiGHTS news). I remember SOOO many times having the debate about SNES and GEN and also PSX, Saturn and N64, then DC and N64... i enjoy the breath of fresh air that is Wii because there is no doubt as to which of its competitors have more power. A DS successor definitely wont be coming this year, 2007 is the year of Nintendo, however the 'SURE THING' that people say that the Wii is is not set in stone of yet I don't believe.

Looks like i'm pretty much targeted at SNES vs. MD debate. I should have been a little more specific in what i was meaning... There was 2D sidescrollers, in which you could say that MD was better, SNES was better in everything else. But most games in that era was 2D sidescrollers. Although, SNES had better colors (i by the way loved them), but wasn't it Megadrive, that had larger spites? At least i would remember it being that way. It did have more processing power in its CPU, but due different design, the SNES CPU worked pretty much like CELLs PPE, so it did not need to be that powerful, unlike the CPU in MD. One of the best things about SNES design was, that it was possible to add an extra chip to cartriges. Stunt race FX is still the most realistic driving game that i have played.

Your first post indicated that the processor was faster. To support this post, you made a second post indicating that the processor was slower but that the sum of its parts overcame that eventually. So which is it? Nintendo won't drop royalties any. The official name of the PS2 was the PlayStation 2 computer entertainment system. It may not have pushed the borders quite as much as the PS3 will, but this is the direction Sony's been heading in for years. People are very heavily anti-Microsoft, stemming from its Windows monopoly. They're just as big a bully as Sony is. Wii will have a bigger userbase than both PS3 and 360 combined, and a userbase actually more interested in third party games? I do agree that some companies will view Wii's cost savings as useful, but I doubt it will be a deciding factor in most cases.

Thanks. The repeated vagueness from multiple people when attempting to slam me has proved very helpful and insightful. (For those who missed it, that was my sarcastic font.) There are precedents for Wii winning? Are we talking because it launched well and the entire console war is apparently only 4 months long? Third party DS games can sell so well in Japan thanks to its massive userbase. Minus that advantage, they wouldn't. I do agree SNES was the better system, but by cutting corners, Nintendo handed half the market away. They then handed the rest to Sony.

Nintendo won't drop royalties any.

Don't know who you are answering to, but I did belive that all consol manufactorers used raoyalties?

The official name of the PS2 was the PlayStation 2 computer entertainment system. It may not have pushed the borders quite as much as the PS3 will, but this is the direction Sony's been heading in for years.

People are very heavily anti-Microsoft, stemming from its Windows monopoly. They're just as big a bully as Sony is.

Yes and yes, but that doesn't change that the PS3 compared to PS2 is selling poorly, the march number (NPD) is now in when I write this and 130k isn't good (Neither was Wiis 250k or xbox360 199k). The PS3 was the second worst selling hardware system, only beating the GameCube, a system that I own and knows have been dead for at least 1 years (if not more).

Wii will have a bigger userbase than both PS3 and 360 combined, and a userbase actually more interested in third party games?

Who knows, but Wii already have the larger userbase then PS3 and 360 combined in Japan, and how it looks now nothing will cahnge that. The sales in USA is also indicating that Wii is the clear number two at least for this year. I also think it is very intressting to hear that the Sony fans has changed from we will get the exclusive 3rd party games too: well PS3 will get ports from xbox360 so the combined userbase is larger than for Wii.

It is also intressting that we seems to miss that Wii gets a large number of ports from PS2 a consol that in march sold 300k. Who have the biggest userbase?

I do agree that some companies will view Wii's cost savings as useful, but I doubt it will be a deciding factor in most cases.

I do belive that the companies will make their game for that system they will make the most money on. This means for now, xbox360 and after that Wii. PS3 seems quit pointless for the moment.

Thanks. The repeated vagueness from multiple people when attempting to slam me has proved very helpful and insightful. (For those who missed it, that was my sarcastic font.)

Is that me? I think I have been quit clear about userbase>games>userbase>games... all the time, if you think I have been vague somewhere please point out so. English is my second language and I am nor perfect in it.

There are precedents for Wii winning? Are we talking because it launched well and the entire console war is apparently only 4 months long?

Their is a precedents that the consol that gets the early userbase lead (with large marginal) often win. So far nothing seems to stop Wii selling. Again I am not saying that Wii must win, I am saying that the possibility is there because of the good sales so far. You on the other hand has stated that the only company that can reach PS1 and PS2 levels of succes is Sony. I feel that it isn't true because Wii is selling well for the moment, and it seems that Wii have won Japan (mostley because sony launched PS3 without any game for the japanesse public).

Third party DS games can sell so well in Japan thanks to its massive userbase. Minus that advantage, they wouldn't.

Well you just stated before that even if Wii reach DS levels of succes it wouldn't be a good idea to make games on it. If Wii gets the same userbase as DS wouldn't 3rd party games sell on it? What makes it impossible? I mean DS have succeded haven't it?

I do agree SNES was the better system, but by cutting corners, Nintendo handed half the market away. They then handed the rest to Sony.

Yes and by putting to much technology in the PS3, it seems that is is lossing market share against both xbox360 and Wii.

Again I want to ask how many consols do you think PS3 needs to sell if it going to getting more exclusivs from 3rd parties?

reg: the snes vs genesis issue Sega basically screwed over a lot of genesis users in the last half of the genesis vs snes battle. The Sega CD, Sega 32X did nothing to add to sega's reputation. After the sega saturn launched, sega of japan inexplicably decide to drop support for all consoles in favour of the saturn. The genesis still had a few years in its lifespan at that time nad a lot ofpissed out sega fans bought the snes of feed their 16 bit gaming needs. Nintendo Virtually ambushed sega's Sega 32X showing at E3 showing with Donkey Kong Country. All the attendee's were expecting a new console launch from Nintendo. When Nintendo announced DKC was a snes game it stunned the world and took out the wind from the whole sega-cd, sega 32x exercise.

"Your first post indicated that the processor was faster. To support this post, you made a second post indicating that the processor was slower but that the sum of its parts overcame that eventually. So which is it?" I think this was for me... Overall of SNES made it (the SNES) have better performance (more powerful overall). For example, think big trucks, that have hundreds kW of power and compare it to sports car, that have 100 kW of power, that sports car have better performance. I hope this was clear enough. :)

Sony tie ratio for third parties is generally better. Short of having twice as many consoles, Nintendo can't compete in that respect. NPD definitely looks ugly, but it's way too early for Sony to be concerned. Sony continues to have major exclusives. I do think the best strategy, unless you're being paid by Sony in Microsoft in some form, is to do PS3/360 games, and no doubt many will do that. Porting from PS3 to 360 costs maybe 10-20% of the original investment, so it's definitely worthwhile, regardless of userbase. DS had a much easier time reaching the level it's reached (in Japan) than Wii will. Nintendo has monopolized the portable market for 18 years. Third parties will evaluate their future exclusives on the basis of how their initial ones perform. If MGS4 bombs, they may well port it to 360, and not bother with MGS5 on PS3.

Sony tie ratio for third parties is generally better. Short of having twice as many consoles, Nintendo can't compete in that respect.

They already have twice as many consols, and the gap is growing. Not only that I belive that one 3rd party company will find it self making a lot of money on the Wii, Sega. I have a small felling that most of the Sega fans will find themselves owning a Wii because of Nights, Sonic and so on.

NPD definitely looks ugly, but it's way too early for Sony to be concerned.

To early? The weekly sales is going down and that is with a game that many on this forum stated would increase the sales, Motorstorm. So far it seems that Sonys first party offereings isn't enough to make people buy their system.

Sony continues to have major exclusives. I do think the best strategy, unless you're being paid by Sony in Microsoft in some form, is to do PS3/360 games, and no doubt many will do that. Porting from PS3 to 360 costs maybe 10-20% of the original investment, so it's definitely worthwhile, regardless of userbase.

And ports from a cheaper system or too a cheaper system will help PS3 in what way?

DS had a much easier time reaching the level it's reached (in Japan) than Wii will. Nintendo has monopolized the portable market for 18 years.

DS has according to Media Creat data already sold more than GBA LTD. It keeps selling about 100k a week and we have PSP around 5 millions. How do you explain that the userbase seems to have increased that much?

When it comes to get Wii up to DS levels I have never stated that it would be easy, what I have stated is that you argument seems to be a bit flawed when you first state that even DS level of succes makes the Wii  a bad choice. Then when I state that 3rd party offerings is selling really well on DS you change you mind and says that it is only because of the big userbase.

We can't say for sure what is happening in Japan this year, but for the moment we have can watch the number and watch what games is coming out. Those two can then give us an idea how the sales will look. PS3 has no Japan centric games coming out for the next 3 months that can give a Gundam bump (which was way to low bump). PS3 also has decilining sales number last media create week showed that PS3 sold 12k. Wii has brain training, Dragon Quest Swords and Paper Mario at least. Plus it is still selling out (last week MC number 75k). If we assume that Wii will sell with an avarage of 50k and PS3 a 15k avarage, Wii will have lead of 1.8 million in week 32. If PS3 sales continue to deciline and Wii gets higer shipments we could find us with and even bigger lead. If PS3 doesn't start selling soon we will find that Wii might have taken a such a big lead that we are talking about a 3:1 lead in december. (all number used here is Media Create numbers)

Third parties will evaluate their future exclusives on the basis of how their initial ones perform. If MGS4 bombs, they may well port it to 360, and not bother with MGS5 on PS3.

Yes of course they will be, that doesn't answer why 6.5 million Wii users and growing is a bad choice to support meanwhile 3.2 million PS3 customers is so much better to devlop for.

We go again back to portability. You make a game for Wii, you're making a game for Wii. You make a game for PS3, you can pop it on 360 quickly. You don't necessarily have to, but at least you have that option. PS3 is selling pretty damn well for a $600 system with no games. Whether it should have been a $600 system in the first place is debateable, but they're at a point of no return for that. Nintendo may take a brief lead on the basis of its early fanbase/pricing advantage, but as the other systems get lower prices and more games, that won't be maintainable. Sony can see significant improvement by just lopping $100 off the system's price every year. Nintendo really can't boost demand in that same fashion. Has Nintendo expanded the portable market in Japan? No (perhaps there are new buying segments, but they've got a long ways to go to catch the original GB). Will they? Probably. Why would Konami spend $20 million creating a game, then just drop it? No way in hell this project is getting cancelled. Worst case scenario: it gets ported to 360. I was expecting more out of Sega from both Sonic and VF5. This is a company that's slowly slipping off the map and needs to find a way back. I don't think Nights is that way. The JSRF/GT pack-in was exceptional with 2 million people picking up games they otherwise weren't bothering with, but they failed to capitalize on it. Evolution's pretty unestablished in the US, so Motorstorm is pretty much entirely dependent upon marketing. The first thing Sony's really got that may drive sales is Lair, but anyone expecting monthly sales above 200k before fall is kidding themselves. What the ease of porting does is give developers a way to offset development costs. It does mean there is potential for both 360 and PS3 to have similar libraries, but it also means there is potential for both to get most games. GBA only had about a 3 year lifespan in Japan. I rolled my eyes at the "three-pronged" strategy because I knew the market would not adopt two portables from the same company, and apparently the entire nation of Japan did the same. For Wii, the big question is how long demand will continue to go like this. PS3 will definitely see a boost, though it won't be any time soon.