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Forums - General Discussion - Should People Take Justice Into Their Own Hands (partocular case)

 

Should People Take Justice Into Their Own Hands (partocular case)

Yes 48 57.83%
 
No 32 38.55%
 
Total:80
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:


No, my religion isnt like the others. My religion teaches that NONE of us  are above the power of sin and NONE of us are good enough to be with God. In my religion, the messiah actually DIED FOR US and our sins, which symbolls the forgivness and the chance of human being with God. And my religion is also by far the biggest religion in the world, its not even close to being outdated.

I don't see anything you said as being proof that your religion is better than any other religion. All those points you mentioned only matter in the context of your own religion, but have no relevance in reality. And your last sentence... well, Twilight is extremely popular also.


Well, didnt you compare my religion with false pagan religions. Of course, i can never prove that my religion is better, you can never dispove or prove religion . But in my opinnion, Christianity presents the perfect image of real true God and the true messiah that DIED for us and our sins. I dont care about the identity of religion,  I care more about what message it delievers to the world. I dont care much about christianity as religious status, because religion, above all, seperates people. I care about what message it deliivers and the teachings of Jesus Christ, and how is presenting God. And thats why i think christianity is the best religion for me. And twilight has nothing to do with this, and it isn't even as slightly as popular as christianity



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pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:


No, my religion isnt like the others. My religion teaches that NONE of us  are above the power of sin and NONE of us are good enough to be with God. In my religion, the messiah actually DIED FOR US and our sins, which symbolls the forgivness and the chance of human being with God. And my religion is also by far the biggest religion in the world, its not even close to being outdated.

I don't see anything you said as being proof that your religion is better than any other religion. All those points you mentioned only matter in the context of your own religion, but have no relevance in reality. And your last sentence... well, Twilight is extremely popular also.


Well, didnt you compare my religion with false pagan religions. Of course, i can never prove that my religion is better, you can never dispove or prove religion . But in my opinnion, Christianity presents the perfect image of real true God and the true messiah that DIED for us and our sins. I dont care about the identity of religion,  I care more about what message it delievers to the world. I dont care much about christianity as religious status, because religion, above all, seperates people. I care about what message it deliivers and the teachings of Jesus Christ, and how is presenting God. And thats why i think christianity is the best religion for me. And twilight has nothing to do with this, and it isn't even as slightly as popular as christianity

It's really terrible that you insult pagans and take such a superior attitude, considering you're just as vulnerable as they are to criticism. Your religion is no more true than theirs. As I said, your arguments for why your religion is better (one true God, massiah, sins, salvation) only makes sense in the context of your own religion, which essentially make them pointless.

As for the Twilight thing, well you're right. Christianity is just like Twilight, only even more mainstream.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:


No, my religion isnt like the others. My religion teaches that NONE of us  are above the power of sin and NONE of us are good enough to be with God. In my religion, the messiah actually DIED FOR US and our sins, which symbolls the forgivness and the chance of human being with God. And my religion is also by far the biggest religion in the world, its not even close to being outdated.

I don't see anything you said as being proof that your religion is better than any other religion. All those points you mentioned only matter in the context of your own religion, but have no relevance in reality. And your last sentence... well, Twilight is extremely popular also.


Well, didnt you compare my religion with false pagan religions. Of course, i can never prove that my religion is better, you can never dispove or prove religion . But in my opinnion, Christianity presents the perfect image of real true God and the true messiah that DIED for us and our sins. I dont care about the identity of religion,  I care more about what message it delievers to the world. I dont care much about christianity as religious status, because religion, above all, seperates people. I care about what message it deliivers and the teachings of Jesus Christ, and how is presenting God. And thats why i think christianity is the best religion for me. And twilight has nothing to do with this, and it isn't even as slightly as popular as christianity

It's really terrible that you insult pagans and take such a superior attitude, considering you're just as vulnerable as they are to criticism. Your religion is no more true than theirs. As I said, your arguments for why your religion is better (one true God, massiah, sins, salvation) only makes sense in the context of your own religion, which essentially make them pointless.

As for the Twilight thing, well you're right. Christianity is just like Twilight, only even more mainstream.


Im not vulnerable to criticism, atheists insult christianity on the internet all the time (you being the first example in my head), but the second i state my own opinnion on other beliefs, i am automaticlly opressive christian fundamentalist, extremist imperialist NAAAAAAAAAAAZZZZZZZZZZIII !!!!1!!!1!11!!oneoneoneeleleveneleven, right?I just said why I think my religion is true and their is false. I also said most of pagan religions are either dead or outdated, or both, which is a fact. But of course, you couldn't stand someone saying that he/she thinks his religion is better than others, so you jumped on insulting me, which is what kazs explained.



sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:


1) Er, go back to the link you posted for Outdated.

Note.

"No longer valid or fasionable"

AKA

Outdated = Not Fasionable

Fasionable = Popular

Not Fasionable = Unpopular.

Outdated = Unpopular.

Have you never heard of someones clothes being called outated?

2) Christianity came from Judiasm... and I'm actually not wrong.  Some Christianity spread through force, but not the actual majority of the spreading of the religion.

I mean, do you know what facilitated Christanity to be such a big religion?  It's taking over of an empire that had conquered it.

1. You're both right and wrong. It depends how you use the term "outdated". Words can have several meanings.

In the case of "outdated", it can refer to an objective emasurable quality, or a subjective quality.

For example the fact that the Pentium III processor is outdated compared to the Core i& pricessor is an objective fact that can be determined by comparing their features, capabilities etc. (here we have the objective meaning of "outdated")

Another example: The fact that disco music is considered outdated by today's standard isn't something that can be measured objectively. It's outdated because people no longer like it, its no longer popular, stylish etc. (here we have the subjective meaning of "outdated").

Now, if you mean that a religion's quality of being "outdated" or not depends on people's subjective opinions, then I agree with you. But you surely know that a Bible thumper like pizzahut451 would never devalue his religion by admittign that it's whole validity is dependent on people's whims. He obviously was using the word "outdated" with it's objective meaning, in other words saying that his religion is objectively better than other religions, which I'm sure you can agree is a wrong ideea.

2. Christianity may have come from Judaism, but it doesn't change the fact that they're very different. Judaism is a religion that is strongly tied to a particular ethnicity, and that's why it managed to survive. Christianity on the other hand is an inclusive religion. It's much easier to convert to it, and the ties between it's members and the religion aren't as strong as in the case of Judaism (where the religion is a huge part of their ethnic identity).

When Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire it was no more popular than Scientology is today in the US. It only became popular because the emperor favored it, and people wanted to be in his good graces. Eventually all other religions were deemed illegal. Going back to point 1, Christianity became the "fad" everyone wanted to be part of. And you can't deny that there was pressure to convert (many population converted because their rulers converted), and that the consiquences of not converting were dramatic. And don't get me started on the European colonies, especially the Americas.

If the European states hadn't maintained their power all these centureis, you can be sure that Christianity would've disappeared a long time ago.


1) Actually, I would disagree... most pagan religion's main focus of belief was in fact "My god could beat up your god."   It didn't take much conversion.   You won?  Most of those people adopted your religion.  Judiasm was the first of the "New Religions" whose belief was built more on... well belief.

2)  Judaism is not ethnically tied to anything.  Jewish people are Arabs.  Also, at the time it surivived the Assyrians, the Torah wasn't even completeted!  It's actually events we first learned IN the Torah, and was later historicaly proven.  Which is another point towards the Abrhamic religions by the way.  They appear to be historically accurate.   Few people know this, but the house of Paul... one of Jesus' disciples is something you can visit in Israel.

As for Christianity... well you couldn't be more wrong.   Hell, you brought out my point for me, but actually ignored the salient point of it.   Roman Emperorers converted to Christianity... when it was very unpopular.  (Though it was well more popular then Scientology.)   Christianity conquered and empire that was trying to wipe it out... without using force.

 

If you think it would of been wiped out you should look up the Kakure Kirishitan.



Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:


1) Er, go back to the link you posted for Outdated.

Note.

"No longer valid or fasionable"

AKA

Outdated = Not Fasionable

Fasionable = Popular

Not Fasionable = Unpopular.

Outdated = Unpopular.

Have you never heard of someones clothes being called outated?

2) Christianity came from Judiasm... and I'm actually not wrong.  Some Christianity spread through force, but not the actual majority of the spreading of the religion.

I mean, do you know what facilitated Christanity to be such a big religion?  It's taking over of an empire that had conquered it.

1. You're both right and wrong. It depends how you use the term "outdated". Words can have several meanings.

In the case of "outdated", it can refer to an objective emasurable quality, or a subjective quality.

For example the fact that the Pentium III processor is outdated compared to the Core i& pricessor is an objective fact that can be determined by comparing their features, capabilities etc. (here we have the objective meaning of "outdated")

Another example: The fact that disco music is considered outdated by today's standard isn't something that can be measured objectively. It's outdated because people no longer like it, its no longer popular, stylish etc. (here we have the subjective meaning of "outdated").

Now, if you mean that a religion's quality of being "outdated" or not depends on people's subjective opinions, then I agree with you. But you surely know that a Bible thumper like pizzahut451 would never devalue his religion by admittign that it's whole validity is dependent on people's whims. He obviously was using the word "outdated" with it's objective meaning, in other words saying that his religion is objectively better than other religions, which I'm sure you can agree is a wrong ideea.

2. Christianity may have come from Judaism, but it doesn't change the fact that they're very different. Judaism is a religion that is strongly tied to a particular ethnicity, and that's why it managed to survive. Christianity on the other hand is an inclusive religion. It's much easier to convert to it, and the ties between it's members and the religion aren't as strong as in the case of Judaism (where the religion is a huge part of their ethnic identity).

When Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire it was no more popular than Scientology is today in the US. It only became popular because the emperor favored it, and people wanted to be in his good graces. Eventually all other religions were deemed illegal. Going back to point 1, Christianity became the "fad" everyone wanted to be part of. And you can't deny that there was pressure to convert (many population converted because their rulers converted), and that the consiquences of not converting were dramatic. And don't get me started on the European colonies, especially the Americas.

If the European states hadn't maintained their power all these centureis, you can be sure that Christianity would've disappeared a long time ago.


1) Actually, I would disagree... most pagan religion's main focus of belief was in fact "My god could beat up your god."   It didn't take much conversion.   You won?  Most of those people adopted your religion.  Judiasm was the first of the "New Religions" whose belief was built more on... well belief.

2)  Judaism is not ethnically tied to anything.  Jewish people are Arabs.  Also, at the time it surivived the Assyrians, the Torah wasn't even completeted!  It's actually events we first learned IN the Torah, and was later historicaly proven.  Which is another point towards the Abrhamic religions by the way.  They appear to be historically accurate.   Few people know this, but the house of Paul... one of Jesus' disciples is something you can visit in Israel.

As for Christianity... well you couldn't be more wrong.   Hell, you brought out my point for me, but actually ignored the salient point of it.   Roman Emperorers converted to Christianity... when it was very unpopular.  (Though it was well more popular then Scientology.)   Christianity conquered and empire that was trying to wipe it out... without using force.

 

If you think it would of been wiped out you should look up the Kakure Kirishitan.

Yes, that is pretty amazing, isn't it :)



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Heres the facts for you Kaz and Pizzahut, none of you can prove that the abrahmaic god, or any gods for that matter, exist, and the burden of proof lies with your proving it exists, otherwise its just a myth, a crazy schizo belief or an imaginary friend, nothing more, you're welcome to believe in it, plenty of kids believe in imaginary friends, but no one else has to give it any respect beyond that which they would gie any kid who said they had a friend that no one else could see.



Kasz216 said:


1) Actually, I would disagree... most pagan religion's main focus of belief was in fact "My god could beat up your god."   It didn't take much conversion.   You won?  Most of those people adopted your religion.  Judiasm was the first of the "New Religions" whose belief was built more on... well belief.

2)  Judaism is not ethnically tied to anything.  Jewish people are Arabs.  Also, at the time it surivived the Assyrians, the Torah wasn't even completeted!  It's actually events we first learned IN the Torah, and was later historicaly proven.  Which is another point towards the Abrhamic religions by the way.  They appear to be historically accurate.   Few people know this, but the house of Paul... one of Jesus' disciples is something you can visit in Israel.

As for Christianity... well you couldn't be more wrong.   Hell, you brought out my point for me, but actually ignored the salient point of it.   Roman Emperorers converted to Christianity... when it was very unpopular.  (Though it was well more popular then Scientology.)   Christianity conquered and empire that was trying to wipe it out... without using force.

 

If you think it would of been wiped out you should look up the Kakure Kirishitan.


So you're arguing one group of imaginary friend believers vs. another?



axt113 said:

Heres the facts for you Kaz and Pizzahut, none of you can prove that the abrahmaic god, or any gods for that matter, exist, and the burden of proof lies with your proving it exists, otherwise its just a myth, a crazy schizo belief or an imaginary friend, nothing more, you're welcome to believe in it, plenty of kids believe in imaginary friends, but no one else has to give it any respect beyond that which they would gie any kid who said they had a friend that no one else could see.

Where did I anywhere in this thread try to prove anything?

Clearly put.  The burden of proof lies soley on the person trying to convince others... no matter the topic or subject.

Anyone trying to convince others a god doesn't exist has the same level of proof as someone who is trying to convince people that a god does exist... and considering a negative is pretty near impossible to prove... it's a fools arguement outside of a direct attacking of various specific things, which in of itself is a fools erand considering most things in religion were never meant to be taken literal.

 



axt113 said:
Kasz216 said:


1) Actually, I would disagree... most pagan religion's main focus of belief was in fact "My god could beat up your god."   It didn't take much conversion.   You won?  Most of those people adopted your religion.  Judiasm was the first of the "New Religions" whose belief was built more on... well belief.

2)  Judaism is not ethnically tied to anything.  Jewish people are Arabs.  Also, at the time it surivived the Assyrians, the Torah wasn't even completeted!  It's actually events we first learned IN the Torah, and was later historicaly proven.  Which is another point towards the Abrhamic religions by the way.  They appear to be historically accurate.   Few people know this, but the house of Paul... one of Jesus' disciples is something you can visit in Israel.

As for Christianity... well you couldn't be more wrong.   Hell, you brought out my point for me, but actually ignored the salient point of it.   Roman Emperorers converted to Christianity... when it was very unpopular.  (Though it was well more popular then Scientology.)   Christianity conquered and empire that was trying to wipe it out... without using force.

 

If you think it would of been wiped out you should look up the Kakure Kirishitan.


So you're arguing one group of imaginary friend believers vs. another?

I feel like those points couldn't of flown higher over your head if I'd attached them to bottle rockets.

I'm not arugeing ANYTHING.  I am pointing out that Judiasm was the start of "New Era" religions.  Ones that transcended exactly "one god vs another."

That's exactly how religion existed back then.  I beat you in a war, therefore my Sun god is stronger then your Earth God... therefore your people converted to my religion.

A large amount of oldschool pagan religions were therefore disqualfied due to their defeat as set out by the tenants of their former believers.

Therefore religions that can be disproven.



Kasz216 said:
axt113 said:
Kasz216 said:


1) Actually, I would disagree... most pagan religion's main focus of belief was in fact "My god could beat up your god."   It didn't take much conversion.   You won?  Most of those people adopted your religion.  Judiasm was the first of the "New Religions" whose belief was built more on... well belief.

2)  Judaism is not ethnically tied to anything.  Jewish people are Arabs.  Also, at the time it surivived the Assyrians, the Torah wasn't even completeted!  It's actually events we first learned IN the Torah, and was later historicaly proven.  Which is another point towards the Abrhamic religions by the way.  They appear to be historically accurate.   Few people know this, but the house of Paul... one of Jesus' disciples is something you can visit in Israel.

As for Christianity... well you couldn't be more wrong.   Hell, you brought out my point for me, but actually ignored the salient point of it.   Roman Emperorers converted to Christianity... when it was very unpopular.  (Though it was well more popular then Scientology.)   Christianity conquered and empire that was trying to wipe it out... without using force.

 

If you think it would of been wiped out you should look up the Kakure Kirishitan.


So you're arguing one group of imaginary friend believers vs. another?

I feel like those points couldn't of flown higher over your head if I'd attached them to bottle rockets.

I'm not arugeing ANYTHING.  I am pointing out that Judiasm was the start of "New Era" religions.  Ones that transcended exactly "one god vs another."

That's exactly how religion existed back then.  I beat you in a war, therefore my Sun god is stronger then your Earth God... therefore your people converted to my religion.

A large amount of oldschool pagan religions were therefore disqualfied due to their defeat as set out by the tenants of their former believers.

Therefore religions that can be disproven.


Not really, conversion in that way only argues the history of people who believed in these beings, not whether those beings actually exist or not, so you aren't really disproving anything by that, all you're saying is one group of religious people were able to beat another and force them to convert.  The burden of proof still lies with all the believers to prove any of their gods exist.

Also Hindusim has a wide variety of gods (depening on your branch they are either all different aspects of one, or multiple beings), and isn't really about one god vs another either, and predates Judaism, so your idea about it being the rise of new religions is also false.