homer said:
mrstickball said:
Very well, I can give you a list of things that Bush did that was bad. Admittedly, you are right that most that dislike him do so because he was a Republican, or it was/is simply popular to dislike him.
Anyways:
- Starting 2 very costly wars (cost a lot of money which added to the federal deficit)
- Ratified the Patrot Act (loss of freedoms)
- The bank bailouts
- Expansion of federal government/spending
- Lack of spending political capital when he had majorities in congress/senate.
The truth is, Bush could of done a LOT of good for the nation, domestically, but did very little. With majorities in both houses, he could of done a lot more - like what Obama has done in inverse. He could of privatized Social Security (one of his goals), pushed through to drill in ANWAR/promoted energy independence, reduced government spending by vetoing horrible congressional budgets, ect....But he did none of that.
That isn't to say that I hate Bush. I generally like the guy, and voted for him twice. However, having a more nuianced position on spending issues, and wanting less government...You begin to understand that Bush was a pretty bad president in that respect. Even worse was that he had the power of the pen - like few other presidents have had - and instead focused on 2 wars in the Middle East.
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1.) Was there a reason why we entered those wars? Wasn't Afghanistan funding and training the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11 or am I mistaken? If so, I believe that warranted an invasion. What about Iraq? Did we actually have reasons to believe they had "weapons of mass destruction" that they might use against us? Was Sadam Hussein cruel to his people? Would that warrant an invasion? Was it for oil?
2.) What freedoms did we lose?
3.) Wasn't the controversy here, the way the banks spent that money or am I mistaken? If so, would that be Bush's fault?
4.) Wouldn't this have to go through Congress first? If so,why aren't we mad at them too?
5.) I do not understand this part.
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1. Afghanistan was indeed harboring some elements of Al-Quedia. However, did we have to occupy every square inch of the country to kill a few terrorists? When we invaded, we fought the Taliban more than Al-Quedia. We've been at war with the Taliban for ~8 years now in Afghanistan, not Al-Quedia. There would of been many easier ways to of dealt with Al-Quedia than a boots-on-the-ground invasion. I don't disagree that Saddam was a horrible person that needed to be removed, but was it worth hundreds of billions of dollars? Did Saddam have WMDs? Absolutely. That doesn't mean we should of spent so much to remove what he had (and by that logic, why haven't we attacked Iran or North Korea which have far more advanced programs?)
2. Here's a quote from Wikipedia as to what the bill has brought into law:
Opponents of the law have criticized its authorization of indefinite detentions of immigrants; searches through which law enforcement officers search a home or business without the owner’s or the occupant’s permission or knowledge; the expanded use of National Security Letters, which allows the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order; and the expanded access of law enforcement agencies to business records, including library and financial records. Since its passage, several legal challenges have been brought against the act, and Federal courts have ruled that a number of provisions are unconstitutional.
Many of the act's provisions were to sunset beginning December 31, 2005, approximately 4 years after its passage. In the months preceding the sunset date, supporters of the act pushed to make its sunsetting provisions permanent, while critics sought to revise various sections to enhance civil liberty protections. In July 2005, the U.S. Senate passed a reauthorization bill with substantial changes to several sections of the act, while the House reauthorization bill kept most of the act's original language. The two bills were then reconciled in a conference committee that was criticized by Senators from both the Republican and Democratic parties for ignoring civil liberty concerns.[4]
Now, we may think 'Oh, those are OK things. We're fighting islamic terrorists'. However, you got to understand the law applies to anyone deemed a threat to the government. What happens if the government decides it doesn't like a specific set of Americans - Christians, homosexuals, Hispanics, Jews, ect, and uses those tactics against them? It does erode our freedoms. Furthermore, the bill was supposed to sunset - have a limited span of time in which we needed the provisions. However, the bill was granted permanent extension. That doesn't sound too pro-freedom, does it?
3. Bush signed into law TARP just before he left office. It authorized over $700 billion USD to be given to banks to ensure they stayed solvent. I am not a big fan of increasing the federal deficit for a group of businesses that played fast and loose with their money. Its the same reason I am against the GM auto bailouts (which was under Obama). Keynesian economics have a very limited return for what they do, and Bush basically gave them near a trillion dollars that we had to borrow. That is a bad, bad, thing.
4. Yes, and vice-versa. Bush signed every congressional budget. The pen stopped with his presidency. If he felt the expansions were too much, he could of easily vetoed the legislation, and told them to pare down spending. He did not. In fact, I don't believe Bush ever vetoed any legislation in office....Not a good thing for the leader of our country.
5. Put it this way: In 2000 through 2006, the Republicans controlled the congress, senate, and presidency. That meant that if there was legislation they wanted to pass, it could of passed. They could of done a lot of things to help America, but utterly failed to do it. Instead, there were almost no reforms, no improvements in terms of legislation between 2000-2006. We didn't reduce spending, we didn't reform health care or social security. Instead, Bush worked with Ted Kennedy on No Child Left Behind which was bad law, expanded Medicare, didn't fight for drilling in ANWAR (which helped lead to those wonderful $4/gal gas prices), and so on. Bush was in the presidency for 8 years, and there are only a few pieces of legislation - namely the partial birth abortion ban - that I can think of that were good. Is a good part of that due to pieces of excrement in congress and the senate? Absolutely. But Bush could of easily steered the ship to ensure smaller, more effective government. He did the opposite.
By comparison, look at what Obama has signed into law since he became president 2 years ago - DADT, Obamacare, the Stimulus bill, ect. Major, sweeping legislations.... Bush had 8 years, and had only TARP as a major bill he passed - and that was with the helps of Democrats, not Republicans.