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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - GAMESRADAR: Kinect is indeed fastest-selling game hardware ever

Aielyn said:
thranx said:
Aielyn said:
Pavolink said:

Of course it's hardware. There are accesories for PC like a joystick and still is hardware.

I think that the word a lot of you is looking for is "Console" instead hardware.


I'm pretty sure that the issue with the word isn't so much whether Kinect is hardware. It's whether the only other things that are "hardware" are consoles.

Think about it - if Kinect is hardware under the reasoning put forward in this thread, then why is, for example, the Wiimote not considered "hardware"? The Wii itself sold about 3.5 million in its first two months, each of which included a Wiimote. Wii Play sold another million or so, and each of those included a Wiimote. And then there were the Wiimotes sold separately, which would also account for a large number. It's not implausible that more Wiimotes were sold than Kinects.

And before you complain that you can't include the Wiimotes bundled with Wiis, let me point out that the Kinect sales numbers include Kinects that are bundled with Xbox 360s. And they include Kinects that are bundled with games, so Wii Play is fair game, too.

Essentially, the concern is that they've defined Kinect as "hardware", but not any of the other peripherals/accessories that are comparable to Kinect.

 

EDIT: More than that, though, it's not even accurate if you ignore the issue above, and let Kinect be the only non-console "Hardware" item. Wii, between the 21st of November and the 1st of January, which is significantly less than 2 months, sold 7.9 million units. EDIT 2: Just to be clear, that's 21st of November, 2010, and 1st of January, 2011.


They are talking launch numbers. Do you have numbers for how many wii motes were sold its the first months out? If so post them we can compare. It did outsell the wii its first few  months on the market.


They didn't say "fastest launch", they said "fastest selling hardware". Where in the term "fastest selling hardware" does it imply "launch"?

Note that, in the GamesRadar article, they compare it only to consoles. They do not even make an attempt to compare it to Wiimotes, or to Balance Boards, or to EyeToys.

Now, I don't have the numbers to compare Wiimote launch numbers with Kinect launch numbers - but the point is, neither do GamesRadar. And yet, they make the claim. They claim that it's the fastest-selling game hardware without actually having the data to back that claim up. Instead, they manufacture a justification for the claim by comparing apples with oranges, but only comparing this particular apple with oranges, and not including all apples in the comparison.

it outsold wii BB in its first month and outsold move also. No one has numbers for wii motes. So what else is there to compare?



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thranx said:
Aielyn said:
thranx said:
Aielyn said:
Pavolink said:

Of course it's hardware. There are accesories for PC like a joystick and still is hardware.

I think that the word a lot of you is looking for is "Console" instead hardware.


I'm pretty sure that the issue with the word isn't so much whether Kinect is hardware. It's whether the only other things that are "hardware" are consoles.

Think about it - if Kinect is hardware under the reasoning put forward in this thread, then why is, for example, the Wiimote not considered "hardware"? The Wii itself sold about 3.5 million in its first two months, each of which included a Wiimote. Wii Play sold another million or so, and each of those included a Wiimote. And then there were the Wiimotes sold separately, which would also account for a large number. It's not implausible that more Wiimotes were sold than Kinects.

And before you complain that you can't include the Wiimotes bundled with Wiis, let me point out that the Kinect sales numbers include Kinects that are bundled with Xbox 360s. And they include Kinects that are bundled with games, so Wii Play is fair game, too.

Essentially, the concern is that they've defined Kinect as "hardware", but not any of the other peripherals/accessories that are comparable to Kinect.

 

EDIT: More than that, though, it's not even accurate if you ignore the issue above, and let Kinect be the only non-console "Hardware" item. Wii, between the 21st of November and the 1st of January, which is significantly less than 2 months, sold 7.9 million units. EDIT 2: Just to be clear, that's 21st of November, 2010, and 1st of January, 2011.


They are talking launch numbers. Do you have numbers for how many wii motes were sold its the first months out? If so post them we can compare. It did outsell the wii its first few  months on the market.


They didn't say "fastest launch", they said "fastest selling hardware". Where in the term "fastest selling hardware" does it imply "launch"?

Note that, in the GamesRadar article, they compare it only to consoles. They do not even make an attempt to compare it to Wiimotes, or to Balance Boards, or to EyeToys.

Now, I don't have the numbers to compare Wiimote launch numbers with Kinect launch numbers - but the point is, neither do GamesRadar. And yet, they make the claim. They claim that it's the fastest-selling game hardware without actually having the data to back that claim up. Instead, they manufacture a justification for the claim by comparing apples with oranges, but only comparing this particular apple with oranges, and not including all apples in the comparison.

it outsold wii BB in its first month and outsold move also. No one has numbers for wii motes. So what else is there to compare?


Why does the fact that nobody has the numbers for Wiimotes, or the fact that it outsold Balance Board and Move for their first months, matter to this discussion? The fact is, they've made the claim, but do not have the data to back up that claim. In order to hide this fact, they only compared Kinect to consoles - consoles have obvious reasons why they don't break sales records on launch, when compared with peripherals.

They also only compare launch sales, despite using the phrase "fastest-selling hardware" without specifying that they mean "at launch".

As for what else is worth comparing to, let's go through a few options - Guitar Hero peripherals (same peripheral for different systems should count as one peripheral, right?), MotionPlus, possibly Wii Wheel (does that count? Where does one draw the line on "hardware"?), Tamagotchis (who said it has to be a recent thing?), and R.O.B, just to name a few that come to mind.

Do I think it's reasonable for them to make all those comparisons, when it's so hard to get numbers? No. I expect them to not make the claim in the first place, or at least make the claim in a form that they can back up: "Kinect sells more in first two months than any console in its first two months". That's a claim they can back up. "Kinect is fastest-selling hardware ever" is not something they can back up.



thranx said:
libellule said:
AussieGecko said:
libellule said:

sure, it is a physical object,
sure, it is not a software

but hardware is USUALLY the word we use to talk about a console sku, this is what is counted in the main page of VGChartz.

if you want you can count kinect/wiimote/pseye has an hardware etc ....you can do it
but I would keep using the word peripheral (hardware) ... it looks fairer to me

 

I dont give a toss what VGC thinks it is, the actually site that was linked was GamesRadar, you commented about that. You are wrong.

what goes for VGC goes for gameradar :
"hardware is USUALLY the word we use to talk about a console sku"

it is fairer to talk about fastest accessory or fastes peripheral

sure, if we use those words, the "news" become suddenly a lot less "sexy" ...

I have never seen hardware used in place of console on this site. I don't know where you are getting it from. I mean trying to argue its not hardware is pretty bad. Yes it is an accessory also, but that does not change the fact it is hardware. No way around that. It doesn't make the news more sexy it makes it more factual. Hardware is probably the best description to use as people keep arguing over the periphial/console terms.

wait, you never heard about WEEKLY HARDWARE SALEs ? opposed to software ?

do we count wiiboard, wiimote, dual shock, ps eye on those sales ? no

for 2 reason :
- they are hardware but mainly accessory/peripheral hardware
- nobody give a fucking  shit about accessory

NOW, we are going to track and REPORT those sales because there is an accessory war ongoing between Sony/MS

but, sincerely, no need to call this an "hardware" since kinect/move are not competing versus what we usually call "hardware" ==> console hardware 

Accessory/peripheral was very fine IMO



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libellule said:
thranx said:
libellule said:
AussieGecko said:
libellule said:

sure, it is a physical object,
sure, it is not a software

but hardware is USUALLY the word we use to talk about a console sku, this is what is counted in the main page of VGChartz.

if you want you can count kinect/wiimote/pseye has an hardware etc ....you can do it
but I would keep using the word peripheral (hardware) ... it looks fairer to me

 

I dont give a toss what VGC thinks it is, the actually site that was linked was GamesRadar, you commented about that. You are wrong.

what goes for VGC goes for gameradar :
"hardware is USUALLY the word we use to talk about a console sku"

it is fairer to talk about fastest accessory or fastes peripheral

sure, if we use those words, the "news" become suddenly a lot less "sexy" ...

I have never seen hardware used in place of console on this site. I don't know where you are getting it from. I mean trying to argue its not hardware is pretty bad. Yes it is an accessory also, but that does not change the fact it is hardware. No way around that. It doesn't make the news more sexy it makes it more factual. Hardware is probably the best description to use as people keep arguing over the periphial/console terms.

wait, you never heard about WEEKLY HARDWARE SALEs ? opposed to software ?

do we count wiiboard, wiimote, dual shock, ps eye on those sales ? no

for 2 reason :
- they are hardware but mainly accessory/peripheral hardware
- nobody give a fucking  shit about accessory

NOW, we are going to track and REPORT those sales because there is an accessory war ongoing between Sony/MS

but, sincerely, no need to call this an "hardware" since kinect/move are not competing versus what we usually call "hardware" ==> console hardware 

Accessory/peripheral was very fine IMO

I already got the definition of hardware up there for you. I meant as users posting consoles as hardware. Most use console. And yes I agree all of those things are hardware. Bring it up with brett why they do not track the rest, does not change the definition of words. Hardware is a very basic and general term, even nuts and bolts are considered hardware. Accessory, periphial, hardware, they all apply to kinect.