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Forums - General - The Original Internet Political Quiz.

sapphi_snake said:
Farmageddon said:


We are a natural condition. Greed is natural, violence is natural, murder is natural. Everything that brings about our need for armies and the destruction they have caused is natural. Just observe wild-life.

Nature is, in a sense, the most fuck up shit ever, since every fucked up shit is just part of nature. The distinction you're making is purely cosmetic and not really there.

In your previous reply to me you said:

"Well hopefully one day there will no longer be seperate countries."

Well then, hopefully you'll have a point in the future.

I'm sure we all would like that. We'd all like it if the worlds biggest problems were perfectly solved. But that wish has absolutelly nothing to do with hating the solution we have in the current world. Hating the army because it shouldn't need to exist in a perfect world is indeed just like hating medicine or even the Sun in a sense, it's pointless and makes no sense.

They are all "natural", but also avoidable. War is the result of human will, not of some uncontrolable natural circumstances.

In nature it's perfectly natural for those who are weaker and have less desirable traits to die, but he humans go against that and try to save everybody.

Lots of terrible things go on in nature, but that's because animals have no better way of solving their problems. It's simply their best solution.

However, we humans have superior intellect comapred to other animals, therefore you'd think we'd be able to solve our conflicts without killing eachother. War is nothing more than those fights kids have in kindergarden or school, except the kids are much bigger, much stronger, they use guns and seriously hurt eachother, sometimes killing eachother. The main difference is that they don't even know why they're there and what the other kids ever did to them, and vice versa.


Yeah, you'd think that. Unless of course you actually looked at the world around you. Then you'd realise no, we, as a whole, are not able to do that, at least not yet and probably not for a long time. Sucks, but it's true.

Again, everyone agrees the world would be better witohut war and famine and all that crap and that if everyone was more rational and genuinelly cared about each other we could start to walk that way. But that's just not how the world is and that's just not how it's gonna be for a long time.

Want to hate something, put your hate in the right place. As you said, it's not the army that starts a war, it's politicians. And they don't do that because they're evil politicians, they do that because they can and it's human nature. You may believe we're so different and above the rest of life. Well, we're not. In a sense we are, sure, and many of us have great capacity for empathy and clear thinking, but not we as a whole. Group thinking is inate to us, as is that us vs them mentality. Just look at a soccer game and think about it. We need a lot of conciouss effort and teaching to try and stop this natural mentality to rise and take control.

So I mantain your anger is misplaced. You hate this part of human nature, but you're still to give us a good reason to hate an army itself.



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Kantor said:

Government should not censor speech, press, media, or internet

Did anyone disagree with this?

MOST PEOPLE LIKELY DISAGREE.  CENSORSHIP IS VERY POPULAR.  LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE UPSET OVER WIKILEAKS.

Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft

Same as above.

MILITARY SERVICE ISN"T VOLUNTARY IN MUCH OF THE WORLD.  HECK, YOU EVEN GO TO JAIL IF YOU DON'T VOTE IN MUCH OF THE WORLD.

End "corporate welfare." No government handouts to business

What? "Corporate Welfare"? That's what they're calling a bailout which is going to save thousands of jobs and billions of investment dollars? I disagreed, despite the question trying to make disagreers sound like morons.

THE QUESTION DOESN'T TRY TO MAKE DISAGREES SOUND LIKE MORONS.

Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security

Not the phrasing this time, just the statement. If I don't want to abolish pensions, I'm a horrible evil socialist?

THIS ISN'T ABOUT ABOLISHING PENSIONS, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING ELSE.

Replace government welfare with private charity

Completely abolish welfare? Completely abolish welfare? No disabled benefits? No unemployment benefits? Leave the poorest and most vulnerable people in society to starve? Even I'm not that right-wing.

THAT ISN'T a RIGHT WING POSITION, PER SAY.  UNEMPLOYMENT IS A FORCED GOVERNMENT INSURANCE PROGRAM.  PEOPLE SHOULDN'T GO TO JAIL IF THEY DON'T HAVE INSURANCE.  EITHER WAY, IT WOULD BE EASY ENOUGH TO ALLOW PEOPLE TO PRIVATELY BUY THAT INSURANCE IF THEY WANTED IT.





 

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pizzahut451 said:
Kantor said:
pizzahut451 said:
Kantor said:

I've heard people saying that the Political Compass is left-biased, but this...

Firstly, the fact that it is associated with Libertarianism.com (incidentally one of the most hilarious sites I have ever seen - protect workers by abolishing minimum wage! Leave the UN and NATO to ensure the safety of Americans!), is a pretty obvious indicator of what it wants your result to be. Now, the questions.

Government should not censor speech, press, media, or internet

Did anyone disagree with this?

Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft

Same as above.

I mean, two of the social questions, or 40% of the tests, are pretty much the most centrist statements I have ever seen. But that's not too awful. What's awful is the economic questions.


End "corporate welfare." No government handouts to business

What? "Corporate Welfare"? That's what they're calling a bailout which is going to save thousands of jobs and billions of investment dollars? I disagreed, despite the question trying to make disagreers sound like morons.

Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security

Not the phrasing this time, just the statement. If I don't want to abolish pensions, I'm a horrible evil socialist?

Replace government welfare with private charity

Completely abolish welfare? Completely abolish welfare? No disabled benefits? No unemployment benefits? Leave the poorest and most vulnerable people in society to starve? Even I'm not that right-wing.

Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more

Halve them? David Cameron is cutting by 25%, and it's going to pretty much destroy the economy. I voted "yes", though.

 

What surprises me is that I was pretty much the most right-wing member of this site after Machina according to the Political Compass, and I'm now a Centrist.

Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft

I disagreed on this. Every man over 21/under 50 should serve its country by being in the army for 6 months at least IMO. Its an honor to be in the army.

Why limit it to men, then? Why not women?

Also, my country's government and Sovereign have done nothing for me, and I have no desire to serve them in anything.

It should be a duty for men and voluntary for women IMO.

And its not about serving your government but serving your country.

It is interesting to know how many people support slavery in this day and age.  So people should either be a slave to the government, go to jail or if they resist jail for this issue they should be killed? 

I'm sorry, I was a Sgt in the US Army.  I joined because I wanted the medical training, the experience and the bonuses to donate to pro-liberty causes like my local Libertarian Party, http://www.freetalklive.com/ and http://freestateproject.org/ .  I joined and donated $1000s to pro-liberty causes.  However, I'm glad I didn't serve along side slaves.  Frankly, I don't want anything to do with slaves or slavery.  This isn't the 1800s.



 

Tired of big government?
Want liberty in your lifetime?
Join us @
http://www.freestateproject.org

Kantor said:
pizzahut451 said:

It should be a duty for men and voluntary for women IMO.

And its not about serving your government but serving your country.

Why should it be a duty for men? What has a "country" done for men (not that a country can do anything), which it hasn't done for women?

If it were up to me, I'd pull out of Afghanistan tomorrow.


I never said women should be in the army at all.I said it shouldn't be a duty for them. And I'd like to see your country invaded and than you posting a bolded sentence like that.



sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:

It should be a duty for men and voluntary for women IMO.

And its not about serving your government but serving your country.

If men have to, so should women. There's nothing special about them.

Also, your country doesn't exist, it's just a cultural convention.


They shouldn due to their lack of needed physical  strenght. They are not build for war, so they should serve only if they feel they want/can. Same goes for men with retardation or any kind of physical disability IMO.

 

And do you really think my country doesnt exist? Wow, really...its right next to yours on the west.

Women can be good soldiers just as men can. There have been somesocieties in the world (I think mostly in Africa) where women were the ones who went to war (or served alongside men) and were just as good, if not better than men at physical combat. It's a geneder sterotype of the west that women are weak and can't fight, a sort of self fulfilling prophecy, because girls are conditioned to dislike physical activities since early childhood over here.

And Serbia is just some land on which some people live on. It's not the sort of living breathing entity you envision. All that matters is the people who live over there, not "the country", which is something no one should ever forget.

Also, you live in Germany now. I'm starting to see why people in the West are so annoyed by immigrants.

I never said there are no good female soldiers at all. Lots of women were in armies and were great shooters ( Soviet Red Army best example). But your averige man is a lot stronger and better build for a war than your averige woman.  And btw, how many women did you hear (or see on TV) going to war in Middle ages or any kind of warfare before fire weapons were introdced in th west???  War was always something men particapated in, only very few woman. You can try to spin that as much as you want, but thats a fact. And thats the way it should stay.

 

And if that land on which people live in gets invaded or attacked than my freedom and life depends on defending that land and its people. Cam you understand that? Of course, you dont, you've never experienced war yourself.

 

Oh, you're starting to realize,huh? How about living here for a while and than say something like that. Germans are annoyed by immigrants ( Turks, Iraqis and Kurds, to be more accurate, actually) because of whole other reasons, not their views on military.



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FreeTalkLive said:
pizzahut451 said:
Kantor said:
pizzahut451 said:
Kantor said:

I've heard people saying that the Political Compass is left-biased, but this...

Firstly, the fact that it is associated with Libertarianism.com (incidentally one of the most hilarious sites I have ever seen - protect workers by abolishing minimum wage! Leave the UN and NATO to ensure the safety of Americans!), is a pretty obvious indicator of what it wants your result to be. Now, the questions.

Government should not censor speech, press, media, or internet

Did anyone disagree with this?

Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft

Same as above.

I mean, two of the social questions, or 40% of the tests, are pretty much the most centrist statements I have ever seen. But that's not too awful. What's awful is the economic questions.


End "corporate welfare." No government handouts to business

What? "Corporate Welfare"? That's what they're calling a bailout which is going to save thousands of jobs and billions of investment dollars? I disagreed, despite the question trying to make disagreers sound like morons.

Let people control their own retirement; privatize Social Security

Not the phrasing this time, just the statement. If I don't want to abolish pensions, I'm a horrible evil socialist?

Replace government welfare with private charity

Completely abolish welfare? Completely abolish welfare? No disabled benefits? No unemployment benefits? Leave the poorest and most vulnerable people in society to starve? Even I'm not that right-wing.

Cut taxes and government spending by 50% or more

Halve them? David Cameron is cutting by 25%, and it's going to pretty much destroy the economy. I voted "yes", though.

 

What surprises me is that I was pretty much the most right-wing member of this site after Machina according to the Political Compass, and I'm now a Centrist.

Military service should be voluntary. There should be no draft

I disagreed on this. Every man over 21/under 50 should serve its country by being in the army for 6 months at least IMO. Its an honor to be in the army.

Why limit it to men, then? Why not women?

Also, my country's government and Sovereign have done nothing for me, and I have no desire to serve them in anything.

It should be a duty for men and voluntary for women IMO.

And its not about serving your government but serving your country.

It is interesting to know how many people support slavery in this day and age.  So people should either be a slave to the government, go to jail or if they resist jail for this issue they should be killed? 

I'm sorry, I was a Sgt in the US Army.  I joined because I wanted the medical training, the experience and the bonuses to donate to pro-liberty causes like my local Libertarian Party, http://www.freetalklive.com/ and http://freestateproject.org/ .  I joined and donated $1000s to pro-liberty causes.  However, I'm glad I didn't serve along side slaves.  Frankly, I don't want anything to do with slaves or slavery.  This isn't the 1800s.

Slave? LMAO



pizzahut451 said:
FreeTalkLive said:

It is interesting to know how many people support slavery in this day and age.  So people should either be a slave to the government, go to jail or if they resist jail for this issue they should be killed? 

I'm sorry, I was a Sgt in the US Army.  I joined because I wanted the medical training, the experience and the bonuses to donate to pro-liberty causes like my local Libertarian Party, http://www.freetalklive.com/ and http://freestateproject.org/ .  I joined and donated $1000s to pro-liberty causes.  However, I'm glad I didn't serve along side slaves.  Frankly, I don't want anything to do with slaves or slavery.  This isn't the 1800s.

Slave? LMAO

Being forced to sever in the military or go to jail or be killed if you resist is slavery.  If a slave refuses to do what they are told they are also beaten/imprisoned and eventually killed.  However, slavery isn't as bad if the government isn't doing it.  Because government slavery means that the very institituion that was created to protect people is the one causing the most problem.  A government that enslaves it's people is a government not worth having.



 

Tired of big government?
Want liberty in your lifetime?
Join us @
http://www.freestateproject.org

pizzahut451 said:
Kantor said:
pizzahut451 said:

It should be a duty for men and voluntary for women IMO.

And its not about serving your government but serving your country.

Why should it be a duty for men? What has a "country" done for men (not that a country can do anything), which it hasn't done for women?

If it were up to me, I'd pull out of Afghanistan tomorrow.


I never said women should be in the army at all.I said it shouldn't be a duty for them. And I'd like to see your country invaded and than you posting a bolded sentence like that.

My country never will be invaded. And if it were to be invaded, half the population would leave and the other half would embrace the new rulers, most likely. The government would be the first to join the latter group.

As for women, what do you suppose their duty should be? Cooking for the army? Come on. Everyone in a country has the same duties; that's the very basis of equality. I think that if women expect equal rights to men, they should take equal actions, so if (atheist God forbid) there were a draft, it should be for both genders.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:


Not really.  I'm just pointing out your pure irrationality.

But ok, instead of Medicine... lets say the police.

No need for the police if everyone decided not to comit crimes against each other?  So against the police too then?

Or weapons for that matter.

Being against these things is the same problem as being a pacifist.

All it takes is one person who thinks differently... a single divergent opinion to make you wrong.

There's lots of things wrong with what you wrote.

First of all the police is reactive, not proactive. It's role is to make sure that all goes well within society.

The army's role isn't strictly reactive, and often times the army creates the conflicts (for example attacking another country). Wars don't represent the will of the people (I'm talking about both sides of a conflict), they're power games of political leaders. It's not really in any individual's interest to invade country X, or attack country Y etc. The citizens of country Y did not do anything to the citizens of country X and vice versa. These conflicts are started to political leaders, but are fought by normal people, who have nothing to benefit from them (though political leaders often use manipulation under the guise of patriotism and nationalism to fool people into thinking that their power games really concern them).

That's not actually true.  There are plenty of defensive only armies.  Though with military technology to be defensive you NEED to be offensive.  Otherwise there is no way to stop things like Missles.

Armies very much are the will of the people.  Unpopular wars pretty much don't happen.

Wars only become unpopular once the people who supported them realized they were fools for wanting them in the first place.



Kantor said:
pizzahut451 said:
Kantor said:
pizzahut451 said:

It should be a duty for men and voluntary for women IMO.

And its not about serving your government but serving your country.

Why should it be a duty for men? What has a "country" done for men (not that a country can do anything), which it hasn't done for women?

If it were up to me, I'd pull out of Afghanistan tomorrow.


I never said women should be in the army at all.I said it shouldn't be a duty for them. And I'd like to see your country invaded and than you posting a bolded sentence like that.

My country never will be invaded. And if it were to be invaded, half the population would leave and the other half would embrace the new rulers, most likely. The government would be the first to join the latter group.

As for women, what do you suppose their duty should be? Cooking for the army? Come on. Everyone in a country has the same duties; that's the very basis of equality. I think that if women expect equal rights to men, they should take equal actions, so if (atheist God forbid) there were a draft, it should be for both genders.

Yeah, the draft or lack of a draft should be the same for everybody.  The only reason it isn't in the US I think is because nobody expects a draft to ever happen.

People forget many things when they get stuck in gender stereotypes... the big two here being

 

A) You don't need to be that big to even be a frontline soldier.  Not now a days with guns.

B) Despite the fact that women are born less phsically able... there are still a TON of women out there who can beat you up.  Like physically kick your ass pretty eaisly unless you are in the very top tier for men.... and if we are having a draft... it's because we need a LOT more then that top tier.