I was already fairly confident that SCOTT was Mafia before he decided to randomly change his vote without great reason. Somebody said that it was because he was put under pressure, but at the time that he did it, he had merely 2 votes on him, and the whole issue has dropped under the radar a bit. It doesn't seem right to me, and I'm pretty sure that he's just a newbie playing as the Mafia.

People have been bringing up Final-Fan's PM comment and since I forgot to comment on it before I'll do it now.

I can't understand how FF of all people decided to make such a comment considering that PM talk is what ruined his game. I'd like to know what motivated him to post it because I fail to see a reason why he'd want to put this out there.

For those who weren't around most of day 1 (mostly dtewi and myself) - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3817373 - heph jumping on him for it - http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3817558 - more replies later if you feel like reading more.

Anyways, I personally see no harm in the post nor any indication of alignment. It used to be that you could format your pm's very nicely just like forum posts. Now they format horribly. I assume that maybe noname brought the quality of those pm's back to the WoW days which were very very nice regardless of role (townie, scum, doctor, cop, etc all had long nicely laid out rules with what you could and couldn't do and maybe some theme thrown in) Commenting on a good job publicly is fine by me. Nothing was discussed other than the fact he liked it (layout and content). This doesn't mean much at all since even townies get content (for a short example, "you are town, you must vote to lynch the mafia during the day and hopefully not die during the night").

Since I have no other reason (currently) to be suspicious of Final-Fan I would actually take some responses to be more suspicious than the original post. For example, theprof00 saying the post was used to draw out other power roles. Maybe theprof is trying to justify mafia moves which he made himself yet pin them on a townie? It would be extremely convenient and would be a smart move in my opinion. Also, theprof's assumption that Final-Fan is scum goes against his previous post saying he thinks that the scum are inexperienced, which Final-Fan has been around mafia for a long time. Nothing is concrete, but I don't see how any of those related postings by Final-Fan indicate scum. If anything I would think they indicate town as scum do not want to draw attention to themselves or their role pm.

sorry for the long post. I originally only wanted to find the links for dtewi and myself but obviously I put a lot more thought into it

@potals - since some people were discussing them

Personally I don't like them because I feel that they distract from the heart of the game. In the real world equivilent people have to remember without writing down huge spreadsheets of information. If you want to do that privately there is nothing I can do to stop you. However, I feel that posting potals (and other giant spreadsheets of analysis like "is lynching day 1 mathematically a good idea") is overkill and distracts from the game. I also feel it is a technique used to look like you are contributing when all you are really doing is compiling maybe semi-useful information. In short, I find them suspicious.

As for myself, I keep a list of confirmed/suspected roles and a few links. By day 4-5 I'll have enough interesting posts either in memory to be found later or enough links in my own posts that I can easily build very interesting evidence and I think I do just fine with what little information I keep outside of memory.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

as of the trawling for information I've been doing, my opinions have changed a lot. I don't think FF is mafia and did it as a lure, I think he did it by mistake and mafia were paying attention.

I'm not against the idea that he's mafia either though.

I'm simply pointing out that that particular post is what got Heph killed. It has to be. Taking out strong players first (my old theory) is all well and good, but this was an even better opportunity. The two theories can coexist, but I believe this post was the primary reason.

I honestly don't have to post the stats and info. People seem to like it though.

You must admit though, looking at the numbers, that right after gnizmo was accused of not contributing, the next day he is one of the highest contributors. Of course, he may just come in and say that whatever issue was keeping him from contributing is gone, but the fact still remains that in between two completely different behaviors, was night.

It's useful for what it is. Personally, last night after I was done and went to bed, I felt it did take away from the game somewhat. If there is interest in them, I will keep posting them, but if not, I'll just tally up my information and post it like regular posts where I see pertinent information, as above.

oh, I agree. There can be some useful information. How useful is to be determined. If people find it interesting the only thing I can do as a non-mod (game wise anyways ) is to vote for you or anyone else, however I doubt I'd get any support from the town. My other problem is people having "mistakes" and "slipups" which are a judgement call which if a scum is creating the table can influence easily making a player look bad without posting links.

As for Gniz. Honestly I would expect very low contribution during day 1 from everyone. I see in my potals that I had 3 NC day 1 and 6 C day 2 (ok, maybe I didn't just look and my memory might suck ). Generally during day 1 most posts are complete garbage. I like convo in day 1 so I can go back and see who didn't quite randomly vote and how I think they line up.

Also, as asked above, can you please explain your j0 suspicion. You say you suspect him (and 3 others) based on creating your potals but you never stated why. I know why (or at least a reason) for SAK and Stefl.

About scottie and his vote. Yes he didn't back up his vote with much but wouldn't someone who's bandwagoning choose to hop on the one with the most votes already? In this case it would have been nen-suer so him voting for Silver-Tiger could mean two things:

- He's town and really believes Silver-Tiger is scum but didn't explain his reason clearly.

- He's scum and didn't want to vote for nen-suer because nen is scum too.

The second scenario kinda makes me want to vote for scottie just because of the huge pay off involved if it turns out to be true.

despite this feeling like some kind of set-up to me;

j0 has barely contributed. That in itself isn't much, but he could be described as an active lurker. On day 1, he posted this: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3816523

It just screams contribution without content, on top of what I would say is an innaccurate assessment of the mafia # discussion. It is very important, (and easy) to find out how many players there are so that we can weigh the risks of lynch vs no lynch etc etc.

This post he made later is a bit far-reaching
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3819246

Two games ago (MINHA) he also said that mafia don't lurk and that lynch all lurkers is a bad strategy. That game had all the mafia lurking...indeed, it cannot be argued that LaL doesn't work. The post above makes me think that j0 is trying to contribute as little as possible and casually dismiss the overall discussion as paranoia.

I find this strange as well. It semi-correlates with my suspects.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3819828
In the link above, he says No Lynch, yadda yadda yadda, but doesn't vote it.

Over the course of the enxt 8 hours, hat, gniz, stelf, and himself vote no lynch. 2 out of those 3 not including j0 are suspects. Could be a directive, who knows.

There's not much more, but honestly, looking through every single post and really digging through them, nobody jumped out the way those 4,5 did.

ill be back later.