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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Official Spike TV VGAs thread

Vetteman94 said:
Bong Lover said:
Vetteman94 said:
Bong Lover said:


Not in the least. My argument is that when you design a game, the focus should be on making a game not on how it looks. Spending time on creating a beautiful presentation is fine, as long as the game is the starting point. My issue is with the trend in videogames to push for graphics as the main point of creating a game. This leads to the same game being created over and over with updated presentation. And yes, in my opinion the games you have mentioned are all guilty of this to some degree.

As a side point, kudos for at least touching on the actual argument I made instead of making irrelavant digs at my user name.

While I still disagree with you I would like yo to point me out a few instances where the same game isnt being created over and over again?   This also has to at least a good game, because a game isnt good just because its different.


This is virtually impossible. That is after all the reason for my complaint. The video game industry, especially the marquee releases are growing increadibly stale.

I know that true innovation in gameplay is extrordinarily difficult and rare. I am fine with designers who work hard on refining or imporving already exsisting game mechanics. The problem with the direction of (parts of) the industry is that that is not what they are doing, instead they create generic games and try to make the experience stand out by improving the graphics or equally bad, write a 'compelling' story.

The most innovative advanced done for videogaming this generation has been in input methods rather than gameplay. Wii remote, the balance board and kinect mostly. On the gameplay front I can't think of anything outside of co-op play maturing.

So all you are basically saying is all current gen games suck then?   Alright well then I guess this conversation is done. If  you cant even give an example of what you are comparing too, you have no argument, just hollow words.  And those input methods arent innovative,  in fact they are also, how you say, the same thing over and over.  

If that is what you are reading into my statements, I am not making myself clear. As I said, I realize that complete innovation is rare. It's not rational to expect every game that is released to be a completely new genre and a never before seen game structure. It is possible however to expect that more effort is put into how a game plays. And that if a sequel or a new game boils down to adding higer resolution textures and rewriting the story then the game is not necessary.

Again, shovelware will always exsist, not everything will be stellar. My issues are that the games that are universally hailed as the best games of the year more and more often tend to be what I call graphical upgrades of old ideas. The FPS genre for example is a prime example of this. Luckily, the game industry is more vital then the film industry, but this generation has seen videogames move closer to the creative black hole that the movie industry is in, and that worries me.

Maybe Uncharted 3 will prove to be absolutely amazing, who can tell from the trailer? But then again, maybe it will turn out to be Avatar, a piece of shit in a pretty dress that everyone in the world will say is the best thing ever.

This has deviated a bit from my original post though. I stand by the idea that when graphics hit a certain level of photorealism, they start to look pretty bad since they are naturally compared to the real world. That point has been reached this generation in my opinion and I think many of the most 'realistic' games we see now look worse than many games from generations past.



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SOooo I'll be buying


Assassin's Creed 3
Mass Effect 3
Uncharted 3
Gears of War 3
Resistance 3
Mass Effect PS3
White Knight Chronicles 2
MGS: Rising 

and possibly VSXIII next year?


EPIC



Black Women Are The Most Beautiful Women On The Planet.

"In video game terms, RPGs are games that involve a form of separate battles taking place with a specialized battle system and the use of a system that increases your power through a form of points.

Sure, what you say is the definition, but the connotation of RPGs is what they are in video games." - dtewi

qmoney88 said:
Bong Lover said:
Vetteman94 said:
Bong Lover said:
Chibi.V.29 said:
Boutros said:

Naughty Dog: "Yes Uncharted 3 Trailer was all from in-Engine (plus) Actual Gameplay"

http://www.tqcast.com/2010/12/11/naughty-dog-yes-uncharted-3-trailer-was-all-from-in-engine-actual-gameplay/


O_O i think we can all agree this looks to be the best looking console video game ever created ^^ 

 

We can not. Against my better judgment I watched the trailer and as I suspected it looks like utter crap. Another step down the wrong path when it comes to game graphics.

The more developers try to make their games look 'realistic' the more we're served insults like this trailer. I see people drooling over the water effects. Here is a tip for you, if you play a game to watch natural looking flowing water try watching the Discovery Channel instead. The water effects there are infinitely better and will be so forever. For Christ out loud! They can't even produce a convincing model of the human body, let alone make it move like something that looks even remotely natural. Why do they keep doing this? All they are achieving is making the game look devoid of soul. Anyone who as ever actually been outside will immediately be able to see how hopelessly primitive this graphics are compared to what they are trying to model.

Photorealism like this is a GIANT waste of time. It will never ever look good, and is nothing but a distraction from the game. If the resources sunk into the graphics of this game had been used on creating a game instead it could have been amazing. Of course, actual game design is quite difficult and requires the ability to have an original thought. That is probably why they didn't bother trying that.

Yes because games like Uncharted, Halo Reach and God of War III lack things that could make it amazing because they focused so much on the graphics.  


I agree. They are basically without a single original idea. Upgraded presentation, repackaged content. The same thing that has all but killed Hollywood is now destroying gaming.

Youre right bong lover, why dont we toss nathan drake a magic staff sitting on top of a chocobo while hes busy browsing through his menus trying to figure out if he should upgrade his spellpower or that ifrit summon hes been eyeing for the past 4 experience levels... im not quite sure how much different you would like each iteration in any series to be but apparently you only play one game in a franchise and forget about it.  If every game was like crackdown, then maybe your posts would be justified but if you believe that every franchise that spawns a sequel is nearly identical to its predecessor then I feel sorry for you for being so cynical and not allowing yourself the opportunity to enjoy these games and experience the myriad of gameplay changes/additions and improvements overall that most sequels tend to receive.  Ive said this before and ill say it again, I dont think Ive ever seen a straight guy complain about women only having three entrances with which to penetrate, sure there are different positions and  techniques but at the end of the day men just want to have sex.  Despite a few exceptions, most video game series fall within these parameters in order not to alienate their fanbase but are still able to create a varied enough experience that it all feels fresh and familiar at the same time.  There is absolutely no reason to scrap the core mechanics and premise if it worked so well to begin with, its actually incredible to see these games transform from iteration to iteration while keeping their identity intact.  Welcome to gaming my friend, you seem to be lost.



Almost correct, except I think entire genres are remakes of the same game, not necessarily just a series.



Bong Lover, im not done yet.  You also dont realize (and im assuming based on your stance on video games in general this gen that this doesnt apply to you) that several fans of series become emotionally invested in their favorite games, its what keeps them coming back.  Everything from the story to characters, environments, atmosphere etc etc are just as important to a game as the gameplay itself.  This is why developers continue to build upon the foundation they created, rather than scrapping it for an entirely different model.  Heres a prime example, if metal gear solid 4 were to ever be anything other than a stealth action game, such as just an action game, I would never support that series again a day in my life.  I would feel as though they robbed me of a true metal gear experience.  Another reason creating sequels simply works the way it does is because there are so many other gaming experiences to be had that by the time the sequel rolls out everyone is ready to return to that particular universe.



 PROUD MEMBER OF THE  PLAYSTATION 3 : RPG FAN CLUB

LivingMetal said:
toadslayer72 said:

Real quick. VGA was complete shit. I Dvr'd it and watched it later JUST so I didn't have to labor through all of the BS. Even still, what little I did see of the people on stage was completely embarrassing. 

That said, I think Sony represented big time. Hey 360....where the fuck were you? Uncharted 3 was looking good  and I thought Arkham looked off the hook. I'm cool with RDR winning even though I haven't played it. By what everyone says it seems like a good game that deserves it, like UC2 last year. Also happy for LIMBO. I think someone here said that Reach didn't win anything but gamrFeed says it got best multi-player. 

I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on a PS3 though, I wanna play Killzone and Uncharted.


Let me just be sincere by saying that I prefer the PS3 so I'm not trying to come at you from a certain angle.  So let me just say that Sony really takes care of their own.  Get a PS3.  Something about it just... deep.  Also, I do want an Xbox 360.  I just don't have time for it now.  Good luck to, ya.

What you said at the end of your post is the reason I don't already own a PS3....time. Hell I barely have the time to play the few games I play on the 360 as it is. It sucks because I know I'm missing out on a lot of quality titles on both systems. I'm sincere when I say that I want to play some of the PS' big titles but if I'm gonna do that, I'm just gonna have to say F-it and go out and buy a PS. If I think about it too much I'll talk myself out of it like I have to date.

I guess I'm also just disappointed that MS pretty much didn't even show up to the VGAs. I mean I mostly don't give a shit about who wins what as far as "awards" but seeing the premiers is cool. I'm sitting there watching with my two sons and all I'm seeing is all this good looking PS3 shit. MS better have a good showing at E3 in 2011 and not just a fucking Kinect stroke fest. I don't have a problem with Kinect either, I actually think it's cool and I remain optimistic  as long as MS balances out the offerings. 



I LOVE paying for Xbox Live! I also love that my love for it pisses off so many people.

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I forgot about this until now, but what happend to the resident evil game that was rumored to be announced. Also there was a a peace walker emblem that popped up during one of the geoff keighly interviews.



Bong Lover said:
qmoney88 said:
Bong Lover said:
Vetteman94 said:
Bong Lover said:
Chibi.V.29 said:
Boutros said:

Naughty Dog: "Yes Uncharted 3 Trailer was all from in-Engine (plus) Actual Gameplay"

http://www.tqcast.com/2010/12/11/naughty-dog-yes-uncharted-3-trailer-was-all-from-in-engine-actual-gameplay/


O_O i think we can all agree this looks to be the best looking console video game ever created ^^ 

 

We can not. Against my better judgment I watched the trailer and as I suspected it looks like utter crap. Another step down the wrong path when it comes to game graphics.

The more developers try to make their games look 'realistic' the more we're served insults like this trailer. I see people drooling over the water effects. Here is a tip for you, if you play a game to watch natural looking flowing water try watching the Discovery Channel instead. The water effects there are infinitely better and will be so forever. For Christ out loud! They can't even produce a convincing model of the human body, let alone make it move like something that looks even remotely natural. Why do they keep doing this? All they are achieving is making the game look devoid of soul. Anyone who as ever actually been outside will immediately be able to see how hopelessly primitive this graphics are compared to what they are trying to model.

Photorealism like this is a GIANT waste of time. It will never ever look good, and is nothing but a distraction from the game. If the resources sunk into the graphics of this game had been used on creating a game instead it could have been amazing. Of course, actual game design is quite difficult and requires the ability to have an original thought. That is probably why they didn't bother trying that.

Yes because games like Uncharted, Halo Reach and God of War III lack things that could make it amazing because they focused so much on the graphics.  


I agree. They are basically without a single original idea. Upgraded presentation, repackaged content. The same thing that has all but killed Hollywood is now destroying gaming.

Youre right bong lover, why dont we toss nathan drake a magic staff sitting on top of a chocobo while hes busy browsing through his menus trying to figure out if he should upgrade his spellpower or that ifrit summon hes been eyeing for the past 4 experience levels... im not quite sure how much different you would like each iteration in any series to be but apparently you only play one game in a franchise and forget about it.  If every game was like crackdown, then maybe your posts would be justified but if you believe that every franchise that spawns a sequel is nearly identical to its predecessor then I feel sorry for you for being so cynical and not allowing yourself the opportunity to enjoy these games and experience the myriad of gameplay changes/additions and improvements overall that most sequels tend to receive.  Ive said this before and ill say it again, I dont think Ive ever seen a straight guy complain about women only having three entrances with which to penetrate, sure there are different positions and  techniques but at the end of the day men just want to have sex.  Despite a few exceptions, most video game series fall within these parameters in order not to alienate their fanbase but are still able to create a varied enough experience that it all feels fresh and familiar at the same time.  There is absolutely no reason to scrap the core mechanics and premise if it worked so well to begin with, its actually incredible to see these games transform from iteration to iteration while keeping their identity intact.  Welcome to gaming my friend, you seem to be lost.



Almost correct, except I think entire genres are remakes of the same game, not necessarily just a series.

I guess I can understand where youre coming from if youre the kind of guy thats played lara croft and decided that there is no need to play uncharted because of their similarities in gameplay.  It sounds as though gaming just isnt for you, or that you stick to one game for a very, very long time.  I can respect that you do not have the want or will to plug your way through another cliche jrpg, or another online first person shooter.  I guess im the kind of guy that plays all types of games within each genre just to see how each experience differs from the next.  Essentially every genre boils down to the same mechanics if you look at it that way, but my passion for video games is what drives me to play as many great games as I can despite the similarities.  Im sorry for sounding a bit malicious but I believe that now is the best time to be a gamer period.



 PROUD MEMBER OF THE  PLAYSTATION 3 : RPG FAN CLUB

Bong Lover said:
psrock said:
Bong Lover said:
psrock said:
Bong Lover said:
psrock said:
 

bong lover, huh?

Me and Miley Cyrus.

obviously, how high are you right now?

That is irrelevant. I stand by my argument. My avatar or username really doesn't have anything to do with the point I am making.

I disagree, it has everything to do with your statement.

I have proof =   Your statement.

By that rational I have proof that you are an ass based on your avatar?

as long as its an sexy ass I'm cool with it



 

qmoney88 said:

Bong Lover, im not done yet.  You also dont realize (and im assuming based on your stance on video games in general this gen that this doesnt apply to you) that several fans of series become emotionally invested in their favorite games, its what keeps them coming back.  Everything from the story to characters, environments, atmosphere etc etc are just as important to a game as the gameplay itself.  This is why developers continue to build upon the foundation they created, rather than scrapping it for an entirely different model.  Heres a prime example, if metal gear solid 4 were to ever be anything other than a stealth action game, such as just an action game, I would never support that series again a day in my life.  I would feel as though they robbed me of a true metal gear experience.  Another reason creating sequels simply works the way it does is because there are so many other gaming experiences to be had that by the time the sequel rolls out everyone is ready to return to that particular universe.

This is where we differ. I don't consider these thinsg to be part of the 'game' in the sense I use the word. These things are presentation. When I speak of a game I mean the rules that determine how the game plays. 



qmoney88 said:
Bong Lover said:
qmoney88 said:
Bong Lover said:
Vetteman94 said:
Bong Lover said:
Chibi.V.29 said:
Boutros said:

Naughty Dog: "Yes Uncharted 3 Trailer was all from in-Engine (plus) Actual Gameplay"

http://www.tqcast.com/2010/12/11/naughty-dog-yes-uncharted-3-trailer-was-all-from-in-engine-actual-gameplay/


O_O i think we can all agree this looks to be the best looking console video game ever created ^^ 

 

We can not. Against my better judgment I watched the trailer and as I suspected it looks like utter crap. Another step down the wrong path when it comes to game graphics.

The more developers try to make their games look 'realistic' the more we're served insults like this trailer. I see people drooling over the water effects. Here is a tip for you, if you play a game to watch natural looking flowing water try watching the Discovery Channel instead. The water effects there are infinitely better and will be so forever. For Christ out loud! They can't even produce a convincing model of the human body, let alone make it move like something that looks even remotely natural. Why do they keep doing this? All they are achieving is making the game look devoid of soul. Anyone who as ever actually been outside will immediately be able to see how hopelessly primitive this graphics are compared to what they are trying to model.

Photorealism like this is a GIANT waste of time. It will never ever look good, and is nothing but a distraction from the game. If the resources sunk into the graphics of this game had been used on creating a game instead it could have been amazing. Of course, actual game design is quite difficult and requires the ability to have an original thought. That is probably why they didn't bother trying that.

Yes because games like Uncharted, Halo Reach and God of War III lack things that could make it amazing because they focused so much on the graphics.  


I agree. They are basically without a single original idea. Upgraded presentation, repackaged content. The same thing that has all but killed Hollywood is now destroying gaming.

Youre right bong lover, why dont we toss nathan drake a magic staff sitting on top of a chocobo while hes busy browsing through his menus trying to figure out if he should upgrade his spellpower or that ifrit summon hes been eyeing for the past 4 experience levels... im not quite sure how much different you would like each iteration in any series to be but apparently you only play one game in a franchise and forget about it.  If every game was like crackdown, then maybe your posts would be justified but if you believe that every franchise that spawns a sequel is nearly identical to its predecessor then I feel sorry for you for being so cynical and not allowing yourself the opportunity to enjoy these games and experience the myriad of gameplay changes/additions and improvements overall that most sequels tend to receive.  Ive said this before and ill say it again, I dont think Ive ever seen a straight guy complain about women only having three entrances with which to penetrate, sure there are different positions and  techniques but at the end of the day men just want to have sex.  Despite a few exceptions, most video game series fall within these parameters in order not to alienate their fanbase but are still able to create a varied enough experience that it all feels fresh and familiar at the same time.  There is absolutely no reason to scrap the core mechanics and premise if it worked so well to begin with, its actually incredible to see these games transform from iteration to iteration while keeping their identity intact.  Welcome to gaming my friend, you seem to be lost.



Almost correct, except I think entire genres are remakes of the same game, not necessarily just a series.

I guess I can understand where youre coming from if youre the kind of guy thats played lara croft and decided that there is no need to play uncharted because of their similarities in gameplay.  It sounds as though gaming just isnt for you, or that you stick to one game for a very, very long time.  I can respect that you do not have the want or will to plug your way through another cliche jrpg, or another online first person shooter.  I guess im the kind of guy that plays all types of games within each genre just to see how each experience differs from the next.  Essentially every genre boils down to the same mechanics if you look at it that way, but my passion for video games is what drives me to play as many great games as I can despite the similarities.  Im sorry for sounding a bit malicious but I believe that now is the best time to be a gamer period.

I am very passionate about games. That is why it is disappointing to me to see that games are rellying more on more on fluff, and less on actual gaming. You are right that I prefer sticking to the same game for a long time rather than playing many variations of the same basic game.

Though, I don't want to seem like a nazi about it. I concede that a genre or a game can be advanced by improving on presentation, maybe even story telling. Not every game can invent its own genre. My problem is that game innovation seems to be virtually at a standstill and the entire industry is focused on presentation.