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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Official Spike TV VGAs thread

Uncharted 3, Mass Effect 3. That's me set for games in 2012. I suspect I'lll be playing ME2 for A LOT of 2011, and not a lot else.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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Cross-X said:
Vetteman94 said:
Cross-X said:

My impressions.

 

- Red Dead Redemption Deserved GOTY 2010. No denying that.

- Kinda was buggered to see John Marston's VA not getting the Best VA Award or Gary Oldman for Reznov.

- God of War III didn't get any awards and so didn't Halo Reach...

 

Actual Games:

I WAS MIND BLOWN BY:

- UNCHARTED 3

- MASS EFFECT 3

- RESISTANCE 3

- BATMAN ARKHAM CITY

- ELDER SCROLLS V: SKYRIM

 

Prototype 2 looks exactly like Prototype 1 so don't give a shit. Forza 4 obviously I don't give a shit either along with SSX.

I was expecting more from Del Toro's Game and since it's Horror, I'm gonna pass.

And what was the Zombie Game VGA was teasing about the whole time?

I'll deny it,  it didnt deserve it.  Im just glad it wasnt Black Ops

Well I actually didn't care whether RDR or GOW III or ME 2 got the GOTY. I also was very happy that Black Ops didn't get it because I seriously don't understand why it was in that catagory in the first place. Good game but not GOTY Contender.

I assume that you would've wanted Heavy Rain as GOTY?

I would have been fine with ME2 or GOWIII winning as well,  and yes if it was up t me it would have been Heavy Rain.



Bong Lover said:


Not in the least. My argument is that when you design a game, the focus should be on making a game not on how it looks. Spending time on creating a beautiful presentation is fine, as long as the game is the starting point. My issue is with the trend in videogames to push for graphics as the main point of creating a game. This leads to the same game being created over and over with updated presentation. And yes, in my opinion the games you have mentioned are all guilty of this to some degree.

As a side point, kudos for at least touching on the actual argument I made instead of making irrelavant digs at my user name.

The problem with the points your trying to make is that you sound like someone who's arguing from an outsiders point of view. Judging by your game collection and console of choice, I doubt you have a heavy investment in HD gaming and so I also doubt you've fully experienced all these games your trying to criticize. 

Just because a game looks fantastic, it doesn't mean it's fallen in the gameplay department. Uncharted 2 is a perfect example, it's the best looking gaming on consoles and yet it's plat forming and shooting mechanics are so refined that they near perfection and it also adds new elements into the gameplay that differentiates it from it's competitors. If you had played the game, you could probably provide me a list of new and refined gameplay elements that other Third Person Shooters are missing.

Assassins Creed 2 is another example, it's a beautiful game that masterfully recreates 15th century Italy. So basically it looks great, but it also offers the player unique and refined gameplay elements that cannot be found in any other games. It plays better than it looks, but it also looks phenomenal.

Your blanket statement that games are merely becoming the same content but repacked with a visual upgrade is false. You can probably find a few examples, but you won't find many and they also won't be among the top tier games that is usually brought up in these debates. Uncharted 2 isn't just a prettier Uncharted 1, Assassins Creed 2 isn't just a prettier Assassins Creed, God of War 3 isn't just a prettier God of War 2, MW2 isn't just a prettier MW1, Little Big Planet 2 isn't just a prettier Little Big Planet, Mass Effect 2 isn't just a prettier Mass Effect, Bayonetta isn't just a prettier DMC4 and I can go and on but hopefully you get my point. 

It also helps that every year, these developers your trying to criticize, put effort into creating new IPs and gaming experiences. Just this year we've had Bayonetta, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, Vanquish, Super Meat Boy, Joe Danger, Limbo, Split/Second, 3D Dot Game Heroes and heaps other great new experiences and they all look fantastic.

What your doing is going along with the standard Wii fan argument that they give out when ever graphics is ever brought up in a discussion, but it's a disgusting statement to make and it's incredibly stupid. Just because a developer puts an effort into their artistic direction and overall visual presentation, it doesn't mean that they don't put that same amount of love and effort into the gameplay.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

Real quick. VGA was complete shit. I Dvr'd it and watched it later JUST so I didn't have to labor through all of the BS. Even still, what little I did see of the people on stage was completely embarrassing. 

That said, I think Sony represented big time. Hey 360....where the fuck were you? Uncharted 3 was looking good  and I thought Arkham looked off the hook. I'm cool with RDR winning even though I haven't played it. By what everyone says it seems like a good game that deserves it, like UC2 last year. Also happy for LIMBO. I think someone here said that Reach didn't win anything but gamrFeed says it got best multi-player. 

I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on a PS3 though, I wanna play Killzone and Uncharted.



I LOVE paying for Xbox Live! I also love that my love for it pisses off so many people.

Vetteman94 said:
Bong Lover said:


Not in the least. My argument is that when you design a game, the focus should be on making a game not on how it looks. Spending time on creating a beautiful presentation is fine, as long as the game is the starting point. My issue is with the trend in videogames to push for graphics as the main point of creating a game. This leads to the same game being created over and over with updated presentation. And yes, in my opinion the games you have mentioned are all guilty of this to some degree.

As a side point, kudos for at least touching on the actual argument I made instead of making irrelavant digs at my user name.

While I still disagree with you I would like yo to point me out a few instances where the same game isnt being created over and over again?   This also has to at least a good game, because a game isnt good just because its different.


This is virtually impossible. That is after all the reason for my complaint. The video game industry, especially the marquee releases are growing increadibly stale.

I know that true innovation in gameplay is extrordinarily difficult and rare. I am fine with designers who work hard on refining or imporving already exsisting game mechanics. The problem with the direction of (parts of) the industry is that that is not what they are doing, instead they create generic games and try to make the experience stand out by improving the graphics or equally bad, write a 'compelling' story.

The most innovative advanced done for videogaming this generation has been in input methods rather than gameplay. Wii remote, the balance board and kinect mostly. On the gameplay front I can't think of anything outside of co-op play maturing.



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It's obvious Microsoft doesn't give a flying crap anymore. All we get is a Forza 4 trailer that shows us absolutely nothing. They might as well have cut Forza 4, invited Peter Dille to host the show because it might as well have been a freaking Sony press conference. You have a 10 million lead on the PS3 in Americas, and you get completely outclassed by Sony at an awards show. Absolutely freaking predicable as usual.



themanwithnoname's law: As an America's sales or NPD thread grows longer, the probabilty of the comment "America = World" [sarcasticly] being made approaches 1.

toadslayer72 said:

Real quick. VGA was complete shit. I Dvr'd it and watched it later JUST so I didn't have to labor through all of the BS. Even still, what little I did see of the people on stage was completely embarrassing. 

That said, I think Sony represented big time. Hey 360....where the fuck were you? Uncharted 3 was looking good  and I thought Arkham looked off the hook. I'm cool with RDR winning even though I haven't played it. By what everyone says it seems like a good game that deserves it, like UC2 last year. Also happy for LIMBO. I think someone here said that Reach didn't win anything but gamrFeed says it got best multi-player. 

I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on a PS3 though, I wanna play Killzone and Uncharted.


Let me just be sincere by saying that I prefer the PS3 so I'm not trying to come at you from a certain angle.  So let me just say that Sony really takes care of their own.  Get a PS3.  Something about it just... deep.  Also, I do want an Xbox 360.  I just don't have time for it now.  Good luck to, ya.



Doobie_wop said:
Bong Lover said:


Not in the least. My argument is that when you design a game, the focus should be on making a game not on how it looks. Spending time on creating a beautiful presentation is fine, as long as the game is the starting point. My issue is with the trend in videogames to push for graphics as the main point of creating a game. This leads to the same game being created over and over with updated presentation. And yes, in my opinion the games you have mentioned are all guilty of this to some degree.

As a side point, kudos for at least touching on the actual argument I made instead of making irrelavant digs at my user name.

The problem with the points your trying to make is that you sound like someone who's arguing from an outsiders point of view. Judging by your game collection and console of choice, I doubt you have a heavy investment in HD gaming and so I also doubt you've fully experienced all these games your trying to criticize. 

Just because a game looks fantastic, it doesn't mean it's fallen in the gameplay department. Uncharted 2 is a perfect example, it's the best looking gaming on consoles and yet it's plat forming and shooting mechanics are so refined that they near perfection and it also adds new elements into the gameplay that differentiates it from it's competitors. If you had played the game, you could probably provide me a list of new and refined gameplay elements that other Third Person Shooters are missing.

Assassins Creed 2 is another example, it's a beautiful game that masterfully recreates 15th century Italy. So basically it looks great, but it also offers the player unique and refined gameplay elements that cannot be found in any other games. It plays better than it looks, but it also looks phenomenal.

Your blanket statement that games are merely becoming the same content but repacked with a visual upgrade is false. You can probably find a few examples, but you won't find many and they also won't be among the top tier games that is usually brought up in these debates. Uncharted 2 isn't just a prettier Uncharted 1, Assassins Creed 2 isn't just a prettier Assassins Creed, God of War 3 isn't just a prettier God of War 2, MW2 isn't just a prettier MW1, Little Big Planet 2 isn't just a prettier Little Big Planet, Mass Effect 2 isn't just a prettier Mass Effect, Bayonetta isn't just a prettier DMC4 and I can go and on but hopefully you get my point. 

It also helps that every year, these developers your trying to criticize, put effort into creating new IPs and gaming experiences. Just this year we've had Bayonetta, Alan Wake, Heavy Rain, Vanquish, Super Meat Boy, Joe Danger, Limbo, Split/Second, 3D Dot Game Heroes and heaps other great new experiences and they all look fantastic.

What your doing is going along with the standard Wii fan argument that they give out when ever graphics is ever brought up in a discussion, but it's a disgusting statement to make and it's incredibly stupid. Just because a developer puts an effort into their artistic direction and overall visual presentation, it doesn't mean that they don't put that same amount of love and effort into the gameplay.

I appreciate the reply and your well stated arguments. I don't think it is necessary to call my statements disgusting and increadibly stupid, but the overall post is strong so I will let that slide.

I don't expect everybody to agree with my opinion, if you think the games you mention are great value then I am happy for you. I have not played or tried them all, but the ones I have sampled fall handily into the pattern I am pointing to in my opinion.

There is no way you will get me to believe that there's even a 50/50 split in presentation vs game mechanics for the development of a typical game today. I would prefer that significantly more resources are put towards making the actual game and less on the presentation. For the record, I consider things like 'adding more weapons', 'improving NPC AI', 'more complex world maps' etc. to just be updates of the presentation.

As for my game library, the list on my profile is nowhere near complete. As for my console of choice, the points I am making are even more glaring on the Wii. That system is overrun by games where the developers don't care about the gameplay OR the graphics. I suppose that when chosing between a shitty game or a shitty and ugly game it makes sense to pick the shitty game. I want good games though.



Bong Lover said:
Vetteman94 said:
Bong Lover said:


Not in the least. My argument is that when you design a game, the focus should be on making a game not on how it looks. Spending time on creating a beautiful presentation is fine, as long as the game is the starting point. My issue is with the trend in videogames to push for graphics as the main point of creating a game. This leads to the same game being created over and over with updated presentation. And yes, in my opinion the games you have mentioned are all guilty of this to some degree.

As a side point, kudos for at least touching on the actual argument I made instead of making irrelavant digs at my user name.

While I still disagree with you I would like yo to point me out a few instances where the same game isnt being created over and over again?   This also has to at least a good game, because a game isnt good just because its different.


This is virtually impossible. That is after all the reason for my complaint. The video game industry, especially the marquee releases are growing increadibly stale.

I know that true innovation in gameplay is extrordinarily difficult and rare. I am fine with designers who work hard on refining or imporving already exsisting game mechanics. The problem with the direction of (parts of) the industry is that that is not what they are doing, instead they create generic games and try to make the experience stand out by improving the graphics or equally bad, write a 'compelling' story.

The most innovative advanced done for videogaming this generation has been in input methods rather than gameplay. Wii remote, the balance board and kinect mostly. On the gameplay front I can't think of anything outside of co-op play maturing.

So all you are basically saying is all current gen games suck then?   Alright well then I guess this conversation is done. If  you cant even give an example of what you are comparing too, you have no argument, just hollow words.  And those input methods arent innovative,  in fact they are also, how you say, the same thing over and over.  



Bong Lover said:
Vetteman94 said:
Bong Lover said:
Chibi.V.29 said:
Boutros said:

Naughty Dog: "Yes Uncharted 3 Trailer was all from in-Engine (plus) Actual Gameplay"

http://www.tqcast.com/2010/12/11/naughty-dog-yes-uncharted-3-trailer-was-all-from-in-engine-actual-gameplay/


O_O i think we can all agree this looks to be the best looking console video game ever created ^^ 

 

We can not. Against my better judgment I watched the trailer and as I suspected it looks like utter crap. Another step down the wrong path when it comes to game graphics.

The more developers try to make their games look 'realistic' the more we're served insults like this trailer. I see people drooling over the water effects. Here is a tip for you, if you play a game to watch natural looking flowing water try watching the Discovery Channel instead. The water effects there are infinitely better and will be so forever. For Christ out loud! They can't even produce a convincing model of the human body, let alone make it move like something that looks even remotely natural. Why do they keep doing this? All they are achieving is making the game look devoid of soul. Anyone who as ever actually been outside will immediately be able to see how hopelessly primitive this graphics are compared to what they are trying to model.

Photorealism like this is a GIANT waste of time. It will never ever look good, and is nothing but a distraction from the game. If the resources sunk into the graphics of this game had been used on creating a game instead it could have been amazing. Of course, actual game design is quite difficult and requires the ability to have an original thought. That is probably why they didn't bother trying that.

Yes because games like Uncharted, Halo Reach and God of War III lack things that could make it amazing because they focused so much on the graphics.  


I agree. They are basically without a single original idea. Upgraded presentation, repackaged content. The same thing that has all but killed Hollywood is now destroying gaming.

Youre right bong lover, why dont we toss nathan drake a magic staff sitting on top of a chocobo while hes busy browsing through his menus trying to figure out if he should upgrade his spellpower or that ifrit summon hes been eyeing for the past 4 experience levels... im not quite sure how much different you would like each iteration in any series to be but apparently you only play one game in a franchise and forget about it.  If every game was like crackdown, then maybe your posts would be justified but if you believe that every franchise that spawns a sequel is nearly identical to its predecessor then I feel sorry for you for being so cynical and not allowing yourself the opportunity to enjoy these games and experience the myriad of gameplay changes/additions and improvements overall that most sequels tend to receive.  Ive said this before and ill say it again, I dont think Ive ever seen a straight guy complain about women only having three entrances with which to penetrate, sure there are different positions and  techniques but at the end of the day men just want to have sex.  Despite a few exceptions, most video game series fall within these parameters in order not to alienate their fanbase but are still able to create a varied enough experience that it all feels fresh and familiar at the same time.  There is absolutely no reason to scrap the core mechanics and premise if it worked so well to begin with, its actually incredible to see these games transform from iteration to iteration while keeping their identity intact.  Welcome to gaming my friend, you seem to be lost.





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