If the American government disappeared  tomorrow who stands to lose more ,the man making minimum wage or the man taking home a million dollars?

Flat taxes aren't fair because the need for government services is disproportionate, someone making millions a year has far more need for the military, police and education system to safeguard their fortunes and ability to make more money by protecting our  country, foreign interests, travel systems, banks, stock system and to train their next group of employees.  

I hope you're serious, because I agree with that completely.

Aside from which, equal has to do with quality of life, not just some %. If I make $20 million a year and you make $20,000, we have grossly different qualities of life. The impact  of living off of $10 million a year vs $16 million a year is minimal. The different between even $1000-2000 for someone making $20,000 a year is HUGE.



As for letting rich people pay to get organs faster, that's just crazy. Talk about putting a dollar value on human life. A good public health system, but there also being private health care of higher quality available? Fine. But life saving organs going to the rich first? That's just evil. Because I'm a wealthy investor, I deserve to live more than than father of 4 who drives a bus? Certainly not.

The poor pay less taxes?  Last I heard, the top 5% of our country pays like 90%, or something like that, of our taxes.  And while I will agree it is very difficult to find a full time job, the people that are searching can easily get a part time, minimum wage job that will at least help for bills (obviously won't cover near the full cost, but still helps)...I see places saying they are hiring all the time, even now.  So to some degree, yes, they are lazy, because they could go get one of these jobs if they wanted.  Also, if you'd look, its mostly uneducated people getting unemployed.

i dont' have all the stats for everywhere in front of me, but for example in new york there is a direct correlation with graduation rate and the amount of money spent.  This is for new york state.

 School districts with graduation rates of less than 50% spent an average of $13,593; 

School districts with a 50% to 67% graduation rate spent an average of $15,009;  

School districts with a graduation rate of between 67% and 90% spent an average of $15,916; 

School districts with more than a 90% graduation rate spent an average of $18,551

Ok so you're assuming that based on your personal experiences, unemployed people are lazy because they won't get a part-time job? I seriously doubt that. Do you know that for every job opening now, there are 5 people trying to get that 1 job? And if you think unemployment is enough money for these people to live on, you're mistaken. Are there people probably abusing the system? Yes, probably. But to assume the majority of the unemployed are lazy because some of them near you won't apply for that part-time job is ludicrous.

And honestly I think the rich wouldn't have a problem going back to the what 39% tax bracket? The "it will kill small businesses" talking point is a myth, seeing as only 3% of small businesses fit into that category of 250,000 and above. It's fearmongering, plain and simple, and it's worked.

Well i like my taxes the way they are. But here in Canada our medical and water is covered in our taxes and our own state medical. I feel sorry for everyone in the US who dies because they don't have the money for medical treatment. Also I think the rich should be taxed more. They are gaining more from your society so they should give more back. If a poor man looses 10% in taxes and is forced to live on the streets do to lack of finances a rich man who makes say over 200K should have to pay 15% or so maybe even 20% if you make a mill or so.

The wealthy should help those they are using to get rich. In a country of democracy all citizens should be given equal rights and the rich should not be in such a powerful position compared to the poor. I mean seriously this is how democracies got started the poor people over through the nobels to create democracy.

If you are insainly wealthy you should give back if not voluntarily through taxes. Give back to all those people buying your products and paying for your lifestyle.

So the rich should put more into the system even though they get same out?

Say the tax rate is flat and at 10%. Someone making 25k puts 2500 into the system. Out of it they get highways, police safety, education for their children and all the other government funded service. Now you have a gentlemen that makes 250k a year putting 25k into the system and he doesnt get anything more out of the system then the fellow that only put 2500 in, even though he put in 10 times more. Fair? Hell no.

Now I'm going to take a wild guess and say you're not terribly wealthy.... Now why is that? Are you lazy? Maybe. Perhaps you live a comfortable lifestyle and you're cool with that. But why should someone who goes out and busts their butt to make it big have to put more into the system than you?

50% of the American population pays $0 into the federal tax system. Some of that 50% actually get money back. So who's paying for all the government funded organizations? The wealthy are. And you all just think since they already fund everything they should just give up more? These people get nothing out of the system because they managed to make it on their own. And they should pay even more?

As to the bolded statement above. Yeah Bill Gates and Steve Jobs giving you the Personal Computer, that's no big deal. Everyone on this forum hardly uses a computer anyways, they didn't really give us anything good.

Generally people buy a product because it makes life easier, but you're right, all those people who invented helpful stuff, they don't deserve a single penny they have made off of it. We'd all be better off without any conveniences.

I hope this next part doesn't land the ban hammer on my head, but you all need to get your heads out of your asses (atleast those who say the rich should be taxed more). Rich people are rich because they put forth the effort to become rich. And in the process they've made the rest of your lives alot easier. (Now is this universal among rich people, no but for the most part) And instead of thanking them you all just want to take their shit.

Now a flat tax system is probably as fair as it can get for rich people, but if you want fair then they should actually pay a smaller percentage and even then they'd be paying more than everyone else.

I'll use the example of the UK here, since it's pretty much the opposite of numonex's proposal.

Who uses state education? The poor.

Who uses the NHS (public healthcare)? The poor.

Who gets benefits and housing allowance? The poor.

Who pays significantly more tax than anyone else? The rich.

The poor are actually taking far more from society than the rich. Obviously I'm not saying that they should pay more tax, but is it really fair to then tax the poor at 0%, and the rich at 40-50%?

The funniest thing people just don't realize is the following: If you would start everybody off with $0 again.  Give the current poor people salaries equal to twice as much as the current rich people.  20 years down the road, it will be almost the exact same people that are rich, and the exact same people that are poor. 

For a majority of life, it is your own choices that will lead to "success" in life.  Even people that lose their job...if you would follow any financial plan at all, they pretty much all say you should have at least 1/2 year of income saved in an easily accessible account (often referred to as an emergency fund), so please don't try using this as an excuse for why people get so far in the hole.  These people that will wind up poorer get there because they go buy a brand new expensive house, brand new expensive car, brand new this, brand new that, and have every dollar they make going out the door each month.  They lose their job, obviously they will be screwed over.