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Forums - General Discussion - North Korea fires artillery at a populated South Korean Island

Kasz216 said:
Cross-X said:
Kasz216 said:
Cross-X said:
 

Yes it obviously seemed that I was trying to defend myself with that link but with regards to that link, I didn't neccessarily  agree either with the all the guess work and theories. I just posted to see what you thoughts on the theories that person came up with and some of the comments as well.


I can only think of two countries that would ever want to sink a sub like that and make it look like a North Korean sub.

 

1) China, in attempts to break up reunification talks.  This would only happen after relations had been normalized however and it could be portrayed as a "friendly fire accident."

2) Japan, who more then anyone is upset over North Korea have nukes and would no doubt like to take out their Nuclear power plants.  As Japan is a country that actually does have to worry about North Korean Nukes.

Problem being here... Japan know's china is on the UN securities council, and knows China would veto blame and therefore veto retribution.

 

The problem with it being a conspiracy and not a torpedo is that the US, Australia and Sweeden wouldn't evenwant to cover that up.   The US actually probably wishes it was one of their mines.

But with regards to China, there hardly hasn't been any major reunification talks between North and South pretty much since 2009. Like I said earlier, Lee completely trashed the relationship and opted talk more about imposing sanctions on North Korea rather than Reunification and the two have been going against each other since. So there isn't much to break up by blowing up the South Korean ship.


That's exactly why it had to of been North Korea.

The only other two countries who would benefit from it... wouldn't.

If only Lee had shut the fuck up in the first place and just moved on instead of creating a huge mess...



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Cross-X said:
Kasz216 said:
Cross-X said:
Kasz216 said:
Cross-X said:
 

Yes it obviously seemed that I was trying to defend myself with that link but with regards to that link, I didn't neccessarily  agree either with the all the guess work and theories. I just posted to see what you thoughts on the theories that person came up with and some of the comments as well.


I can only think of two countries that would ever want to sink a sub like that and make it look like a North Korean sub.

 

1) China, in attempts to break up reunification talks.  This would only happen after relations had been normalized however and it could be portrayed as a "friendly fire accident."

2) Japan, who more then anyone is upset over North Korea have nukes and would no doubt like to take out their Nuclear power plants.  As Japan is a country that actually does have to worry about North Korean Nukes.

Problem being here... Japan know's china is on the UN securities council, and knows China would veto blame and therefore veto retribution.

 

The problem with it being a conspiracy and not a torpedo is that the US, Australia and Sweeden wouldn't evenwant to cover that up.   The US actually probably wishes it was one of their mines.

But with regards to China, there hardly hasn't been any major reunification talks between North and South pretty much since 2009. Like I said earlier, Lee completely trashed the relationship and opted talk more about imposing sanctions on North Korea rather than Reunification and the two have been going against each other since. So there isn't much to break up by blowing up the South Korean ship.


That's exactly why it had to of been North Korea.

The only other two countries who would benefit from it... wouldn't.

If only Lee had shut the fuck up in the first place and just moved on instead of creating a huge mess...

I don't see how that would change matters, both that attack and this one seem to have been part of a plan of succession for Kim Jong Il's son and to get a better deal from the US to stop it's nuke program.

This attack likely would of happened just the same. 

Showing outrage is fine, the only way he could turn it into a huge mess is if he orders another attack beyond just shelling back...

or if another attack happens he just outright goes bannanna's on the retaliation and like quadrupples the force or something to the point of where the ass kicking actually embaresses North Korea, forcing a small war because Kim Jong Il knows the embarresment will prevent his son from ascneding cleanly.



Kasz216 said:

Relations to be normalized?  I'd think because they'd want to avoid situations like this where refugees may come in.

I'd think China would want North Korea and South Korea to be friendly, but still have enough mistrust to not want to combine.  Do you disagree?

Neither agree nor disagree. First of all, the reasoning is kinda vague. Why refugees would be a problem at all in any scenario (btw what refugees? why refugees? we're talking here about potential peaceful unification, right?).



mai said:

Kasz216 said:

Relations to be normalized?  I'd think because they'd want to avoid situations like this where refugees may come in.

I'd think China would want North Korea and South Korea to be friendly, but still have enough mistrust to not want to combine.  Do you disagree?

Neither agree nor disagree. First of all, the reasoning is kinda vague. Why refugees would be a problem at all in any scenario (btw what refugees? why refugees? we're talking here about potential peaceful unification, right?).


I mean they wouldn't want a war between the two but they also wouldn't want a United Democratic Korea as a neighbor.



Cirio said:

Goddamn stop wasting resources in Afghanistan and freaking invade N.Korea, NATO! Shove democracy down their throats and break the barrier between North and South Korea like the Berlin wall. Seriously, they're the biggest threat to the world right now.

Islamic Fundamentalists are the biggest threat to the world and have posed much more threat to Americans that the Soviet Union or North Korea.

Tensions may have been high between the USA and USSR, but nobody was going to do anything about it because of mutually assured destruction.  And since both the  USA and USSR didn't want to kill other civilians or have many of their own killed, war never occurred. 

Thats not the case with Islamic Terrorists.  Their religious principles cause them to act horribly irrational, and if they ever get a weapon of mass destruction they won't hesistate to use it.  The USSR with 10000 nukes is a much better alternative than than Al Queda with 1.

North Korea and South Korea have been in a civil war for decades now, but neither side is going to do something drastic.  North Korea only does these things now, like secretly attack a ship or walk away from talks, because they know they can get away with it.



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Kasz216 said:


I mean they wouldn't want a war between the two but they also wouldn't want a United Democratic Korea as a neighbor.

So essentially they'd want to keep status quo in the region pretty much like everyone else for the time being. Though I perfectly understand why they do not want war nor UDK, since both scenarios mean US military bases in close proxmity to the borders.



ManusJustus said:
Cirio said:

Goddamn stop wasting resources in Afghanistan and freaking invade N.Korea, NATO! Shove democracy down their throats and break the barrier between North and South Korea like the Berlin wall. Seriously, they're the biggest threat to the world right now.

Islamic Fundamentalists are the biggest threat to the world and have posed much more threat to Americans that the Soviet Union or North Korea.

Tensions may have been high between the USA and USSR, but nobody was going to do anything about it because of mutually assured destruction.  And since both the  USA and USSR didn't want to kill other civilians or have many of their own killed, war never occurred. 

Thats not the case with Islamic Terrorists.  Their religious principles cause them to act horribly irrational, and if they ever get a weapon of mass destruction they won't hesistate to use it.  The USSR with 10000 nukes is a much better alternative than than Al Queda with 1.

North Korea and South Korea have been in a civil war for decades now, but neither side is going to do something drastic.  North Korea only does these things now, like secretly attack a ship or walk away from talks, because they know they can get away with it.

I dunno about that.  There were a LOT of times where it did almost happen.   Just because it didn't happen, I wouldn't underestimate the hopes of one side to wipe out the other before too much damage was done.

I do agre with you that this will lead to nothing though.


Though Islamic terrorists don't act that way because of religion... they act that way because they have no country.


The USSR nukes NY.  What happens?  MAD.

Say Al Queda nuked NY instead of 9/11.  What happens?

Not much more other then 9/11 except everyone cares a hell of a lot more.

It's not like we could nuke Afghanistan that's 90% innocent people that doesn't even have the same government.  Plus we'd have to nuke Pakistan too.

 

While the USSR and USA were staring each other down with machine guns.


Al Queda is hiding in a crowd and using hostages.



Hmm, it's been reported that South Korean airstikes hit DPRK. Is this true or am I missing smth?



mai said:

Hmm, it's been reported that South Korean airstikes hit DPRK. Is this true or am I missing smth?


I heard they fired back, and sent Fighter Jets to the area... haven't heard of an airstrike yet... but maybe.



Kasz216 said:
mai said:

Hmm, it's been reported that South Korean airstikes hit DPRK. Is this true or am I missing smth?


I heard they fired back, and sent Fighter Jets to the area... haven't heard of an airstrike yet... but maybe.

Oh, I must have skipped 'airstrike' part from initial report then, my bad. BTW didn't we sell them S-400 recently? Why they didn't use them?

UPD: Um, no, I got things mixed up again, South Korea bouhgt S-400.