I didn't say Africa, each time I've said sub Sharan Africa. Sub Saharan Africa is that incredibly blue area towards the south of the continent on that map you provided where the majority of the population are Catholics. I didn't say Catholicism was the majority religion for all of Africa, but I did say it was the majority religion for that area. Your map just backs my geography skills up .

As for your first bit, yes, they can't think for themselves on this issue because they have been subjected to so much propaganda (the catholic church is very powerful there). There is a social stigma caused by the catholic church in that area of the world. Regardless of whether you're a catholic or not the propaganda is there, and anyone who is or is not a catholic will be against using a condom because of the Catholic churches propaganda blitz.

The catholic church doesn't just say to people in this area of the world "don't have sex until you're married, and then don't use a condom", they actively tell people that in  all cases condoms are bad. They actually tell them that condoms will increase the risk of infection in some cases.

And I think it's important to stress the point that it's not just the Catholics here, the anti-condom propaganda affects the area as a whole. Some people in this thread have failed to understand this. The other side can't just be like me and do what they want, because they are part of the social stigma too.  There is an extremely low compliance of condom use.

I think much of this post is probably also applicable to the other user who replied to me.

I thought that the Churches morality was objective and eternal?

Guess not.

But hey, any improvement in this house of ill repute is a good thing!

Wow, at this rate condoms will become absolutely OK by 2110. The Catholic Church is so "progressive".

Honestly, Id like some sources on what you are saying here. Alphabetically (:D):

A) that the countries with catholic majorities are the ones with the highest rate of HIV infection. From the little I know, it seems to be the opposite.

B) That the church says only that condoms are bad. I mean, the Church always teaches what I said in my post. It surely doesnt say: Dont have sex, but if you do, dont use condoms.

You cant separate one from the other. if they do it, its their choice.

C) You make it as the "catholic propaganda blitz" is this juggernaut and the only thing they hear. Do you think the UN doesnt have its own propaganda blitz? Other NGOs have their own strengh on the issue?

D) There is also the fact that like you said, a lot of the this poulation is ignorant. If american teenagers (who arent catholic) dont use condoms sometimes, what about them who live in a country with less education?

E) There is also the aspect of there is a lot of wars going on in Africa right now. Many of them, have guerrillas going into villages and raping all the women there. I imagine that would contribute greatly to the spread of the disease.

EDIT - Looking through Google, I found this:

http://www.martinrothonline.com/MRCC11.htm

Dont know who he is but he has some percentages of HIV infection x Christianity percentage of the population.

He seems to mostly agree with your postion, though he blames Protestant missionaries mostly for that.

Also, he shows that the rate of infection in  Muslim majority countries is very small.

However, he points out a few things towards the end about how the reports we have are dubious and the infection rates have been linked to a variety of things over time.

To end, he mentions something that I even forgot to add on my arguments:

A country can be majoritarily catholic (or protesatnt, or jewish, etc.) and that may not represent the truth.

I live in Brazil who has a Catholic majority. Yet, our infection rate is very small (0.6% last I heard).

But for a lot the so-called Catholics, there lots of them (and a huge chunk) have a active sex life outside of marriage.

We get the same "catholic propaganda blitz" as Africa, but our infenctions are much much lower.

So, for people to blame The Church (or any specific institution, person, etc.) is wrong. It creates hostility towards the Church around the world.

Phew. That was long. Sorry.

hm.. most of mankind's biggest problems could be solved by dramatically decreasing the birth rate, so I think the Vatican's stance towards condoms is highly immoral

i wonder when these old people will realize that this earth is overpopulated already and that turning a blind eye to this fact _will_ (it's only a matter of time) end in catastrophe

Perhaps its time we all stopped listening to figures like the Pope? If anyone has ever listened, that is...

PS: This may seem odd from the only man with a pope avatar.

I do. And I will keep doing it. You dont want to listen, fine.

On a side note, only now I realized it was Rath who started the thread.

Stop changing avatars people.

Christmas-fy it: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=119834&page=1&str=1148583435#

Of course;

When was that conferance held? xD