Bodhesatva said: eugene said: Some developers are just known to be "not casual friendly" and risk losing their fan base because of it. In including small companys for the sake of mentioning , Blizzard would never make a Wii game even if they were given the opportunity. They thrive on their eco system of hardcore pc gamers that are very very loyal. They cannot risk shovel waring their games with a Warcraft spin off. Same with Lion head, given the opportunity, they would pass. Peter Molyneux has said many times, that they make games for gamers made by gamers and thats their philosophy. So theres a handful of highly rated develpors with huge fan bases that wont go the Wii route. Thats not impuning on the Wii at all, its just that the Wii has a different philosophy to gamming of games for everyone. Epic wont either as I believe they have publicy stated that and risk alienating their base. Blizzard is really a terrible example here -- they have often specifically gone after casual players, and World of Warcraft is noted for being the most casually oriented of all MMOs (and most consider its success to be a direct result of this more casual focus). As a life long fan of Blizzard, I can absolutely say they'd produce a game for a casual base, if that game were QUALITY. "Hardcoreness" isn't one of their defining traits, quality is. Some of their games are hardcore (Starcraft), some aren't (World of Warcraft, Warcraft III). Otherwise, I agree. Lionhead definitely is a hardcore studio, and Epic has specifically stated that they're involved in high end graphical output (which should be obvious anyway, as they are the developers of the UE3).

Starcraft hardcore? Damn, it's my most played PC game of all time, and one of the most casual orientated "big budget" game on PC. Although, after you get hooked to it, you could call yourself hardcore, since it really takes time online. Blizzards success is based on it's games casual-friendly interface and logic games. Capcom seems to have things well in the future, since it's putting effort on Wii. Unlike many other devs. When others wake up and jump on Wii, Capcom will have it's "NES times" reputation among gamers. But anyway, i'd say it doesn't look good for Konami and Midway. Although Eledees seems to be very interesting game, which i propably buy someday. But besides Eledees (and Dewy's Adventure to some extent), there's really nothing from Konami for Wii, and it looks like there won't be in a while. And Midway... What decent games have they published in the last ten years?

Reading everyone's responses I see that some of us are understanding Bod's question differently. Some think of "missing the boat" as simply not publishing much or any titles for the Wii, some seem to see it as not publishing the right titles for the userbase, but I took it to mean who is publishing titles, but none that are as ambitious and imaginative as the Wii's potential enables.

Capcom isn't putting their A teams on Wii games, but with RE4, RE: UC, and Z&W, you can't really argue with the results.

Konami is at least trying to make a few decent games, though nothing really ambitious and clearly marketed towards children.
Tecmo is playing ball to a certain extent. Super Swing didn't bomb worldwide by the way. It wasn't a huge seller, but obviously made a nice profit for them. It wasn't too long after Super Swing was released that a Tecmo person(the SSG producer?) said they were happy with it's sales. And of course the sequel is on it's way too.

Obviously, their big two is DoA and Ninja Gaiden. I'm still hoping for a NG on Wii, as NG belongs on Nintendo consoles in my mind. I'm given hope by the fact that Itagaki chose the DS over the PSP for the NG handheld game. And it was only a few years ago that he said his games would always be on the most powerful console of that time, but NG is on the DS and the 360, not the PSP and PS3. Then you can also look at the sales of NG, NGB, and even NGS. None were really big sellers, relatively speaking. As one of the most "hardcore"(again, I hate that word) games around, and being on the supposed paradise platform for "hardcore" gamers, it was surely expected to blast past the million mark in America. I don't see how Ninja Gaiden couldn't have decent sales on the Wii(though not as high as on the X Box), and be quite profitable considering the dev costs. Of course, MS had deep pockets and it's obvious that Tecmo is getting some of that loot for it's support.

DoA4 and the second volleyball title have had extremely disappointing sales. I'm not a huge fan of either, but I do wonder if they will both stay X Box exclusives with their dwindling sales numbers. These two franchises seemingly need to go multi-platform to stay afloat. Unless MS somehow still feels DoA is relevant enough to keep it on the X Box, I suspect the next game in the series will be multi-platform, possibly with staggered releases. It may be doubtful that they appear on the Wii, but I wouldn't say never.

I am excited about Rygar, even though it's disappointing it's only a port, though supposedly a spruced up one. I never got to play if on the PS2, so unless the Wii port is a trainwreck, it's a purchase in my book. Bottom line is that there needs to be more games like this on the Wii, so I have to give Tecmo some credit on this one.

But now that I've thought even more about it, I think Namco(Bandai) is also a good candidate. Soul Caliber Legends is obviously a very half-hearted effort. I think they threw some stuff together, knowing everyone has been wanting a "sword fightin" game on the Wii, talked it up, hoped against hope that it might actually turn out to be good, then shoved it out the door.

The Namco Museum game is a great idea, but apparently it was just another job to be done at Namco, and not a labour of love. It may have something to do with the Virtual Console, but I believe that the Namco Museum 50th Anniv. game on the Cube had more classics than the recently released Remix for Wii.

The Bomberman game seems to be another wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am type of game. Obviously it's been delayed quite a bit(since it was one of the first Wii games to be shown at E3), so perhaps the massive delay means they are at least trying to make it a decent offering. Still, it reeks of mediocrity and it probably has a very small team working on it, probably one that worked on GBA games in the past(that's just my exaggerated feeling, probably not accurate, and I will give the game a fair shot once it's released).

So I think, understanding Bod's question as I do, I'd take back my earlier choice of Midway; they aren't even trying. Namco is trying to appeal to people that have bought into the Wii's innovations, but haven't put forth the effort or given us enough credit to be able to spot a turd a mile away. Still, I do think Tales on the Wii will be a winner. If memory serves me, they are also making/publishing the rpg "Fragile"? It at least has an interesting concept and look, so maybe it will be worth the wait. Other than those two, unless some key games have escaped my mind, I'd say Namco has really missed the boat at this point in time.

konami and square enix

bdbdbd said: Bodhesatva said: eugene said: Some developers are just known to be "not casual friendly" and risk losing their fan base because of it. In including small companys for the sake of mentioning , Blizzard would never make a Wii game even if they were given the opportunity. They thrive on their eco system of hardcore pc gamers that are very very loyal. They cannot risk shovel waring their games with a Warcraft spin off. Same with Lion head, given the opportunity, they would pass. Peter Molyneux has said many times, that they make games for gamers made by gamers and thats their philosophy. So theres a handful of highly rated develpors with huge fan bases that wont go the Wii route. Thats not impuning on the Wii at all, its just that the Wii has a different philosophy to gamming of games for everyone. Epic wont either as I believe they have publicy stated that and risk alienating their base. Blizzard is really a terrible example here -- they have often specifically gone after casual players, and World of Warcraft is noted for being the most casually oriented of all MMOs (and most consider its success to be a direct result of this more casual focus). As a life long fan of Blizzard, I can absolutely say they'd produce a game for a casual base, if that game were QUALITY. "Hardcoreness" isn't one of their defining traits, quality is. Some of their games are hardcore (Starcraft), some aren't (World of Warcraft, Warcraft III). Otherwise, I agree. Lionhead definitely is a hardcore studio, and Epic has specifically stated that they're involved in high end graphical output (which should be obvious anyway, as they are the developers of the UE3).   Starcraft hardcore? Damn, it's my most played PC game of all time, and one of the most casual orientated "big budget" game on PC. Although, after you get hooked to it, you could call yourself hardcore, since it really takes time online. Blizzards success is based on it's games casual-friendly interface and logic games. Capcom seems to have things well in the future, since it's putting effort on Wii. Unlike many other devs. When others wake up and jump on Wii, Capcom will have it's "NES times" reputation among gamers. But anyway, i'd say it doesn't look good for Konami and Midway. Although Eledees seems to be very interesting game, which i propably buy someday. But besides Eledees (and Dewy's Adventure to some extent), there's really nothing from Konami for Wii, and it looks like there won't be in a while. And Midway... What decent games have they published in the last ten years?

 Starcraft is definitely hardcore in my book, as it requires significant micromanagement. One could call ALL RTS games hardcore -- it's inherently a complex genre -- but some are less hardcore, such as Warcraft 3 or DotA, because the focus on single mega units and macromanagement. Honestly, there isn't much that's more hardcore than a micromanagement-heavy RTS, I think. Even many hardcore gamers are intimidated by the complicated nature of it and the learning curve involved in becoming adept.

Of course, this depends on people's viewpoint of "hardcore," and in this case I'm defining it largely by the game's sheer complexity. It's certainly lighter on the violence and manliness that games like Ninja Gaiden and Call of Duty all but ooze from their pores.  

EA is the one with the most to lose by missing the boat. It seems that they are losing market share and may end up the big loser.

Faxanadu said: konami and square enix

I've been waiting for someone to say Square, because I don't think this is nearly as silly an answer as some people may instinctively make it out to be. 

Knee jerk response: they're giving the Wii DQS, Chocobo's Dungeon, and FFCC!

Next response: Crystal Chronicles has been heavily rumored to be in trouble (and was pulled from Square's Jump Fest), DQS is a spinoff and was not well recieved, and Chocobo's Dungeon is also a spin off and we have no idea how big a deal it will be. 

Add on to this that Nomura seems to be a big fan of cinematic stylings, FMVs, and has publicly praised the PS3, and I think there's credence to rumors that he's not a huge fan of the Wii. Until I see something beyond Spinoffs announced from Square -- DQ X, Star Ocean 4, Chrono Trigger, Kingdom Hearts 3, or something of that nature -- I remain skeptical of their actual investment in the Wii.  

Smash_Brother said: Konami. Eleibits, Dewey and yet another DDR game ain't gonna cut it.

 In fairness, the Wii version of DDR is the best console version ever made. 

 

windbane said: albionus said: windbane said: I think most third parties will "miss out" on the Wii. First teams are making games for the PS3/360/PC or DS or PSP. I don't think the boat is really there yet for them to miss. Just my opinion. Well then you mean most third parties are intentionally missing out on the Wii boat (which is certainly defendable) not that it isn't there. I'm not sure the boat is there. Only 3 third-party games have sold over 1 million on the Wii so far. That's certainly more than the PS3, which only has 1, but not as good as multiplatform releases can do. I also think third parties have a reason to intentionally miss the boat if they want to push their games. The Wii has a nice control option with the pointer but it can't do as much in other areas. I hope all the consoles get great games, though. I haven't seen any big announcements about Wii games yet, but maybe they are all new IPs and will require hands on to impress. We'll see.

Name 3 more 3rd party games on the Wii that deserved to sell 1 Million yet haven't. Or even 2. I can't. Zack and Wiki maybe, but that's not exactly a broad appeal game. Other then that...? Ah I actually thought of a second one myself. MLB Power Pros. But just like Zack and Wiki these are just two games that arn't going to sell on any console.

Bodhesatva said: Faxanadu said: konami and square enix I've been waiting for someone to say Square, because I don't think this is nearly as silly an answer as some people may instinctively make it out to be. Knee jerk response: they're giving the Wii DQS, Chocobo's Dungeon, and FFCC! Next response: Crystal Chronicles has been heavily rumored to be in trouble (and was pulled from Square's Jump Fest), DQS is a spinoff and was not well recieved, and Chocobo's Dungeon is also a spin off and we have no idea how big a deal it will be. Add on to this that Nomura seems to be a big fan of cinematic stylings, FMVs, and has publicly praised the PS3, and I think there's credence to rumors that he's not a huge fan of the Wii. Until I see something beyond Spinoffs announced from Square -- DQ X, Star Ocean 4, Chrono Trigger, Kingdom Hearts 3, or something of that nature -- I remain skeptical of their actual investment in the Wii.

But Chocobo Dungeon is so hardcore!!! 

ItsaMii said: Konami is the best example. I think SE and Sega will be very late to the party (in terms of quality must buy titles).

I plan on buying a Wiiware game by Square next year (they already have at least 1 title on VC but I still play it on SNES). So Square is supporting the Wii on all fronts (VC, Wiiware, and full games).

I've already bought 2 Sega Wii games, I'm going to rent House of Dead, and I will either rent or buy Mario and Sonic used. Sega is my favorite 3rd party developer on the Wii, although I hated the controls in Wii Sonic.

I'd say Namco has done nothing that is even close to good for the Wii. Hopefully, it will someday.