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Forums - General - STAR WARS TOURNAMENT: Episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back. Rate it!

darthdevidem01 said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:
badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:

The only part that really seemed incredulous to me was when the Ewoks were beating them down with those little cudgels.

Yeah, that is the precise scene I'm thinking of. While I'm sure it made me laugh as a kid, now it just makes me groan. All this building up of the Empire as the baddest asses around only to feed them to a bunch of furry little merchandising ploys.

Still, at least I can understand that logic behind that choice: commercial desires simply outweighed artistic ones. Boba Fett's undignified demise, I'll never get.

Did they expect him to be such a badass when it was filmed?

I mean, outside of having a cool helemt it's not like he does anything badass.

He just... picks up Han Solo after Vader does all the work... and that's pretty much it.

This is true as well. Fett's now mythological status was largely fan-developed, given that he didn't do much of anything.

Jango, now he deserved it. He killed a jedi with just a blaster rifle

Makes you think there must of been something wrong with those cloning vats.

Besides which, so are Stormtroopers now officially all clones or what?

I seem to remember one of the videogames talking about "New" clones being integrated with the original Jango clones for diversity's sake... and that become the new stormtroopers.

Unsure if that's canon though.

Canon, as far as i remember, states that the clones were slowly phased out over time. iirc (too lazy to look it up on Wookiepedia) the Kamino cloners turned on the Empire soon after Episode III and had to be dealt with, and the Emperor realized the weakness of having most of the clones come from the same stock. New clones were developed, but they slowly began a recruitment process as well. From memory, i want to say that by the original trilogy they were down to 20% clones, 80% volunteers.

In the original story Lucas wrote that became the screenplay for A New Hope, Luke was trying to get away from Tatooine to go join the Imperial Academy, though Biggs had also gone through that academy before defecting to the Rebellion, so they weren't originally conceived of as all-clone. Though the reason the Emperor was not in A New Hope was because he was originally conceived of as a weak pawn of the military warlords, a figurehead, unlike the omnipotent ringmaster he became, so Lucas retconned a little even within the original trilogy


Yeah, wasn't that even in the movie?  Or maybe it was just the novelsation of the movie.  Hence why I wasn't a fan at a suggested rewrite of that.

can you tell me where you've found info for all these "original scripts" and stuff, I'd like to read all of that

You'd have to ask him, not me.

I know some extra stuff because I own the novelsations of the movies.  In general though you can find it all online via google searches.

My god, the first Star Wars script is just... awwwwwful.



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10/10

Empire lacks the charm and wonder of the first movie but makes up for it with a better story, stronger acting, and one of the greatest moments in cinema. Empire installed the despair to IV's hope perfectly allowing viewers to know that the Empire's previous misteps would be corrected. While it's my second favorite, behind A New Hope, I have to say it is the better movie and hopefully *fingers crossed* all three of the original trilogy will stand on top.



9/10 amazing



10/10

Not only the greatest Star Wars movie but IMO the greatest movie of all time.

Perfection.



 

 

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The best quote I've seen this year:

Angelus said: I'm a moron

10/10.  The best Star Wars film in almost every way and certainly overall.  Darker than A New Hope and therefore perhaps a little fun and breezy, but as a film for mass entertainment Empire managed the neigh impossible of getting the following right:

  • actually follow up A New Hope as a story continuance rather than some weaker sequel
  • excel A New Hope in every way - better script, better narrative, better themes, better acting, better effects, etc. etc.
  • expand the sense of place in A New Hope to a fully realized and consistent seeming Universe
  • expand the mythology of the Jedi / The Force while retaining a heatlhy sense of mystery
  • setup a sense of an epic tale for Luke Skywalker and the series as a whole with some fantastic twists and revelations
  • the best saber duel of the entire series - note, I'm not interested in technique.  This is a film, not a technique class.  I don't care they pushed the choreography further in the prequels and Jedi, the pacing, impact and emotion resonance of the duel in Empire dwarfs every other duel bar the rematch in Jedi - which still pales a bit in comparison.  The duel so perfectly takes Luke from cocksure to peril to inevitable defeat, ramping up the mythos of Vader at the same time while using framing, composition, lighting and effects like no other duel in the trilogy... it's the high point.  After this there had to a duel and inevitable - and incorrectly - the focus shifted to fancy moves vs actual reason for the duel and its importance to the characters.

 

For me Empire shows what should have been (even in Jedi) and clearly illustrates the flaws and mediocre nature of the prequels in particular.  Here, Lucas hires a solid, experienced and trusted director who knows how to direct actors, how to get a performance, how to pace a scene and a narrative.  Here, he has great scriptwriters deliver a perfectly balanced mix of epic narrative with believable character moments and beats and a nice mix of homour.  Of George, why on Earth couldn't you stick to this formula?  Why did you have to direct/write when all the evidence showed this was the best way?

Anyway, while Jedi wrapped things up it showed the plot starting to get lost and the prequels and extended Universe have removed all mystery and consistency, reducing something promising to a setting for endless Jedi duels and innane prattle, weak humour and daffy robots battling boring cloned soldiers who tend to hit their heads on low ceilings.

Still, think of the merchandising sales.  They must be amazing.



Try to be reasonable... its easier than you think...

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10/10

The best Star Wars film just narrowly piping Episode IV for top honors

 

BEST SENE IS STAR WARS!!!!!



Japanese Pop Culture Otaku

and I just had to post this it is to awesome



Japanese Pop Culture Otaku

considering all the shit movies like LOTR have gotten for not having an ending I really hardly see how this one can be considered 10.... i'll duck it to 9.5 just because it doesn't work without a sequel.

(and sorry to say but I prefer RotJ... but then I was a kid when I saw it the first 5 times and the ewoks really didn't bother me, on the contrary.... plus you have a real jedi in luke there, whereas in empire he's impatient and doesn't listen to yoda...)

but yeah, the mythic one liners are from this movie :p



OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO

10 /10

This movie broke the rule about second parts.

I am not sure how it works without the other Star Wars movies, but it is sure the most important episode in terms of the conflict.

And at the same part it is the only one without an all out epic battle. (What happened in Hoth was merely a skirmish). But, again, those things don't make movies great.

Most important thing in any movie: drama




10/10

I've been very foolish though and I've let things get on top of me, so I have plenty of work to do and no time to explain my rating. Just thought I would make the effort to register my rating.