I agree on ME2. It runs on UE3 which generally runs better on 360 and the games were designed with 360 in mind, so I would suspect the game will run somewhat better on 360 than on PS3.

On the PC issue, I think you'd be suprised, (going off of yearly GPU sales) just how many actually have a gaming quality PC. Of course, not all are going to be used for games, but not every gaming capable PC is going to need a yearly GPU upgrade (unless you're loaded with cash).

I'm also going to add that I think there is a difference between "gaming capable" and "gaming quality". I think there are many gaming capable PCs out there that can run multiplat games, but with lower graphics settings. For instance, my friend owns a mid-range Mac from 2 yrs ago, yet uses it to run Windows and multiplatform games like Bioshock, Call of Duty 4 and Mirror's Edge. He didn't buy it for the sole purpose of playing games, but as he has a gaming capable computer and uses it for that purpose.

I don't think he's alone in this. Many will buy a PC and have gaming low on the priority list but will still be able to play and are willing to make the graphical sacrifice. I was like this until this generation to be honest where I started to take note of my PCs hardware.

I would also point out that Steam has 30 million active users now, and Starcraft 2 has sold 3 million (in its first month I think?). That's only a small proportion of the overall PC userbase. Basically, I think there are a lot of gaming capable PCs and it does make a difference. In fact, part of the reason MS does the timed exclusivity (and full for the Halo & Gears games now) is beacuse PC sales would eat int the 360 sales in more PC centric markets.

ONE WORD.MS took away the 3 year warranty on new 360's and even the old ones only provided because RROD was huge

how are PS3's not fixed???????? they damn well are

and i know myself who got YLOD and left it for 3 hours like many other people and got my old PS3 back working

ayou can dream and cancel them out but the reality doesn't

MS didn't just but $2b on RROD just like that.

"Delusional people usually  bring up RROD to say ps3 is ahead."

well i didn't and actually that argument can very well be true but i never said it

bring another example in doesn't hide you being delusional

Michael-5 said:

Cause I'm sick of you giving me this image, I wanted to let you know it's not part of the debate, ruins the forums for everyone, and just needs to be excluded from this conversations

i was trying to make what you call civil but you never change and then you think you have this image

and everybody is fine on the forum and they don't care so don't think so much about it

Well sometimes you ignore my arguement because you find it "stupid" and instead of replying to it, you demean me. It's not a debate when either of us ignore the point the other is making, and we both have done that a fair amount.

i never ignore your argument,i debate it once or twice but you just keep coming with the same argument and learn nothing from the debate

that is when i just brush aside it and not comment on it and that is when i advice you or ask you to stop doing it and you think of it as demeaning you

But you see, sometimes what you feel is "corrected" is actually just injecting your opinion into it, and ignoring my point because in your eyes it's just false. You don't have to agree, but just leave it at that. Don't "correct" me unless I actually give an incorrect number, like a price, or a value for units sold.

actually that is totally wrong

after some time on this site,you mature and you comment based on what the trends are not just your own opinion

i used to be like you when i first join this site but 3 years on this site,your arguments become mature at that time

and i just don't ignore your argument,i take it in and comment on where i dodn't agree based on how trends go

correcting is what is debating,you give your side of view.its a discussion

Saying things like "I twist the truth" "my theory is stupid" "diliberate mistake" "bias" "I prove myself wrong, and then insult myself, so no counter arguement was needed." thats all demeaning.

cause that is what you did

saying xbox is a bigger brand than playstation  and your reasoning about that comment is foolish

then you try to make move sound alot more expensive

your theory are like from a dreamland

and you trying to say that you make mistake both sides to prove yourself

there are way more things that all these mentione that you do

Also when you word your responces in such a way that you talk down to me "You fail again",laughing at my responces, saying things like my arguement is "being optimistic of what I want to succeed." Thats demeaning, and it just makes it unpleasent to debate.

thats cause you repeat the same argument again and again and again and which argument doesn't that up

Anyway no more lecture, you want to keep the debate clean, then I'll stick in it. This is all I wanted from you.

just hold your opinions and debate and think what is accepted not just throw it out

its good you give your opinion but also think what kind of opionion stands its ground and appropraite

I brought in Move because Move did boost PS3 sales by 60-80k weekly. Thats significant, and the purpose of bringing Move in, is because I use it as a scale of how well Kinect will push consoles. I need to compare the console selling capability of Kinect to something, something preferably Sony, and Move is it's most direct compeditor.

that was alrite to bring the MOVE in for sales comparision

but you should know the impact and the push are going to be different as they both are different peripheral and going fro different startegy

also you brought in move to pricefight which wasn't needed

also MOVE didn't oost shit for PS3,the VGC adjustment numbers were just assumption and no tracking was done so just leave the argument there

2012 or 2013. If MS releases a successor console to the 360 in 2013, the 360 will have been MS's mainstream home console for 8 years, and thats too much as it is. In the past no console has had their mainstream console last more then 6 years, this includes successful consoles like the PS1, PS2 and NES.

againi just asked you for your opionion on the next gen console,you didn't need to add other bullshit cause that wasn't anywhere near the debate

this is being foolish(corry i just have to put it in here cause you are stubborn)

and you think MS will hold off PS3 till 2013,that is being totally optimistic and you know that

3.9 million gap, shipped consoles do not reflect sold units,

shipped consoles reflect how soon the gap is reducing and the sold units aren't true atm

and No. In the past the difference in console sales has fluctuated heavily. Just a year ago the difference was 8.1 million sold. PS3 really benefited from the PS3 Slim and price cut, the 360 Slim could not ever have done as well because it no longer has that "shocking" aspect.

in the past the sales have fluctuated cause PS3 was out of the reach of alot of peopl,now it is in reach and next year it wil become in reach of middle class

now if you are gonna complain again on price then think about this

when a console is already in the reach of the people,even if it gets a price cut it won't get much boost but when a product of reach gets into the reach of people it gets alot more boost

I think until the price cut, 360 will sell on par with PS3, and after the price cut, it will continue to sell on par, with minor fluctuations bothways in sales.

well before the pricecut the gap is decreasing

and even if yo think the pricecut will nullify each other,the fact that gap is currently decreasing will remain

I understand that logic, but how many 360 sales are due to the 360 Arcade? In 2008 when there was a $200 Arcade, $300 Pro, and $400 Elite, I know sales went 10%, 80%, 10% respectively.

keep bullshting

this is how you twist the truth

so 360 will benefit about as well from a $200 Elite model. PS3 will probably benefit a little more because there is no cheaper arcade model, so lower income families never had the option of buying a PS3, but a $130 Arcade will probably offset the minor difference the PS3 got from a price cut to $200, so this should not boost either console over the other.

here is why i call you bias

you seem to think all that 360 does can hold and help the 360 sales

but the PS3 strategy would do shit for it

the fact that 360 is already in reach of lower income families,a further cut doesn't make so much difference

but when people never had a consoles in reach of their income,the boost is far bigger

and keep dreaming of a $70 price-cut,it isn't happening

Besides, a $130 360, how many people can turn that down as a secondary system?

well when they don't want a secondary system they just don't want it

you really think just because the thing is cheap and people don't want it they will just go and buy it.wrong.

How many Wii owners are there who want to try out HD gaming, but are too cheap?

well wii owners have the ability to buy a $250 console so they should have bought the 360 by now is they really wanted it

How many PS3 owners are there who want to play 360 exclusives like Halo and Gears?

not many

How many current 360 owners want a second 360 for a sibling (for those spoiled kids who can't share), or another room in the house? Thats my logic.

again this is being bias

you think all this will happen for 360 and not other consoles...........meh

No, see I comeplety disagree from what I know about Arcade sales in 2008, and from how little the arcade Slim sales spike was in the summer.

again your argument fails

cause most of the 360 owners were upgrading and that could be seen from never changing SW sales

and the fact that the the arcade owners were  for low income families

who just don't go and buy a new product,they bought cause it was chea and they wanted it

the people who bought the elite andhad maney went out and upgraded their consoles to SLIM

also alot of those sales were from the discounted arcades too

I think 80% or more of 360 sales are Elite 360 sales, and I've asked friends who work at game stores, they tell me they stock up on a lot more Elites then Arcades.

again your argument and reasoning fails

you tell me i demean you but you demean yourself,you just put out any argument out there

just a friend  and a game stores doesn't prove shit

 We can only speculate, still I agree with you that the Arcade won't go to $100. $130-$150, dunno if it makes a big difference.

when $100 was out of the question,you again comment on it

yeah we can only speculate but we speculate on trends and statistics which you just don't consider

5 million is the initial difference, I don't think it will go 5 million more in favor of PS3 or 360 (meaning I don't think the difference will ever be zero or 10 million, it will stay closer to the initial difference)

be clear like this

Not according to VGChartz, and I'll listen to VGChartz numbers, and data from the 3 press conferences over you. Sorry, your just not going to convince me of your theory, and until proven it is a theory by definition.

and VGC was wrong thats why they readjusted their numbers

you just don't understand the situation

Gears 3, forza 4, Halo 4, XCOM, MechWarrior, Project Draco (From the makers of Panzer Dragoon, and likely to be a Panzer Dragoon game), Dead Island, Huxley: The Dystopia (Shooter published by MS if you didn't know), Steel Batallion, Prey 2 (Prey 1 got above 9/10 ratings) is able to compete with this:

gears and forza and steel batallion(this one barely) compete

all other titles you mention don't compete with established franshies now

and saying a game got 9/10 does shit as  high ratings means nothing when we are discusiing sales and push it can give

See your missing A LOT of future 360 exclusives. Not to mention that MS usually mentions at least 1 big exclusive the year of release (e.g. Gears 2, Forza 3), PGR5 is rumored to be a future title,

i didn't mention other exlcusives cause they weren't established  and can't push shit like gears and even forza doesn't do anything

and PGR5 well its even worse than forza and it will be the same and nullify and also the fact that 360 have had alot of PGR's and forza's

and FFVXIII is rumored to go multi-platform.

well alot of other shit also on rumour  but we aren't cosidering that

if your argument has no better points than mentioning a rumour then just don't make an argument

Not when you actually include the 360 exclusives, and if you include games from this fall (since you included GT5), there there is Fable 3, and Halo as well which will likely push many units this fall, and beyond.

actually you are still being optimistic when there aren't many 360 exlcusives and you know that from the list you mentioned

i just included GT5 as its not released and it will release just before the year end whcih will carry its push next year.

you mentioning HALO is foolish as its  already nearing 10 weeks and we have seen all the push it can give,

Fable 3 also had its push this week and will have afew over next few weeks and won't carry on next year

I have valid reasoning, which shouldn't be ignored.

either you are lying or are optimistic

You feel my opinion is unrealistic because you feel the 360 has nothing going for it in the future, so MS has nothing to counter act future big PS3 console pushers.

i never said 360 has nothing going for it but 360's push has already been all done.it has a few other pushes left

but not like the PS3 which is still at a new consoles price and have games and pushes coming like its a new platform

and you are in another world if you think my opion is unrealistic,look at yours

I feel your opinion is unrealistic because your ignoring 360 future console pushers (like the 8 exclusives you ignored]

and how many of those 8 exlcusives are established and gonna make a push

barely 2-3

Actually your last post was very civil, so I'm very happy. :D

and i'm not cause you returned to being you

Sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you debate, I just want to add 1 small point, and leave you two alone again.

I got my 360 in January 2007, it broke many times, and after I replaced it for a 3rd time, about a month after my 3 year warrenty expired, they gave me an HDMI model 360. It's only been 6 months, but so far not a single problem, not a single freeze. However MS replaced my 360 twice with the original non-HDMI model 360, and all 3 units broke (one unit they returned to me came defective to be fair, it wouldn't play games online), and I had to really yell at them to get an HDMI model. I bet a significant portion of people still have a non-HDMI model replacement, which is bound to break in a year or two.

Also reliabilty figures for current gen consoles. Original non HDMI 360's 35% failure rate. HDMI 360, 2.5% failure rate. Slim 360, unknown failure rate. Original PS3 3.5% failure rate, Slim Model PS3 2% failure rate. Wii - 0.2% lifetime failure rate (but I've read the repair rate for a bad disk drive was 2-5%). So 360 is the worst, but outside the original model, its not that bad.

I won't interrupt again, have fun.

keep taking the numbers out of your ass

the debate was whether the failure rate of 360 and PS3 were anywhere near

you could have sumed it up in a couple of lines but what you did is not needed

i think late 2011 to early or even mid 2012

Read those figures before somewhere, but I dodn't make it a habit of saving every article I read.

and I gave my input on my exerience with a first gen 360, (which I did sum up best I could), and failure rates (which is also as short as possible).

Anyway I'm not getting into this one, just wanted to add my 2 cents