Michael-5 said:
When you calim I "twist the trust", "make false mistakes" "falsify numbers" or try to demean in in some way or another, I just cut it out.
so do it,what are you telling me all that
Cause I'm sick of you giving me this image, I wanted to let you know it's not part of the debate, ruins the forums for everyone, and just needs to be excluded from this conversations
Okay, now look, I know in the past we have have heated debates that lead to negative consequences on your end. I don't want to have anything so stupid as before. You don't have to agree with me, I don't want you to. All I want to do is present suporting or contradicting arguements, and I want to debate them with you. I'm fine that you beleive the PS3 will overtake the 360 in sales, who am I to tell your your opinion is wrong? You do have some good points.
nobody has to agree with anybody,we are having a debate.its just that when the other person tells you sometime,you just don't take it it or take it negatively just not ready to let your argument go.
Well sometimes you ignore my arguement because you find it "stupid" and instead of replying to it, you demean me. It's not a debate when either of us ignore the point the other is making, and we both have done that a fair amount.
You tell me "you respect people and take their advice,they will take yours and respect you", but how does demeaning me show respect for me? Many of your posts are not replies to the arguement I made, but calims of me "twisting the truth."
i wasn't trying to demean anybody,you know i have corrected and tried to advice you in many of our posts but you never come on the right track.its like you took something from one ear and let it go from the other and you reply with the same reponse as before
But you see, sometimes what you feel is "corrected" is actually just injecting your opinion into it, and ignoring my point because in your eyes it's just false. You don't have to agree, but just leave it at that. Don't "correct" me unless I actually give an incorrect number, like a price, or a value for units sold.
Lets start on a new slate. No more insults, no more talking down, no demeaning, none of this bs. If I offend you in some way, or if you feel I have ignored your post, just point out where. Don't add the insult, please, it's no fun debating when half the debate is just rude trash talking. I'm at fault too, I know, so just point out where I offend you in future debates.
i didn't try to demean you anywhere but after repeated telling you to correct it got heated and you always took my reply and advice as insult.its a debate man,just listen to the other guy
Saying things like "I twist the truth" "my theory is stupid" "diliberate mistake" "bias" "I prove myself wrong, and then insult myself, so no counter arguement was needed." thats all demeaning.
Also when you word your responces in such a way that you talk down to me "You fail again", laughing at my responces, saying things like my arguement is "being optimistic of what I want to succeed." Thats demeaning, and it just makes it unpleasent to debate.
Anyway no more lecture, you want to keep the debate clean, then I'll stick in it. This is all I wanted from you.
I think for this debate specifically, we should leave it at this:
You believe PS3 will overtake 360 sales in ______________________________ and _________________________________________ (You can fill this in yourself).
well i already did,it is mid-2011
I just didn't want to write your responce for you because I may not be able to explain it in the way you feel is most appropriate.
I believe 360 will hold second place in the lifetime of the console. I believe this because I think Kinect bundles will push as many, or more consoles as Move bundles and the peripheral will hold popularity until a successor console arrives.
again,you just don't have to bring MOVE in here cause its not necessary.this is how these where you bring in something that is not needed to support your arguments.
I brought in Move because Move did boost PS3 sales by 60-80k weekly. Thats significant, and the purpose of bringing Move in, is because I use it as a scale of how well Kinect will push consoles. I need to compare the console selling capability of Kinect to something, something preferably Sony, and Move is it's most direct compeditor.
and abt the prediction,so when do you think the next gen will start?
2012 or 2013. If MS releases a successor console to the 360 in 2013, the 360 will have been MS's mainstream home console for 8 years, and thats too much as it is. In the past no console has had their mainstream console last more then 6 years, this includes successful consoles like the PS1, PS2 and NES.
and you really think a $100 PS3 price-cut won't be able to cover a 2.9m gap?
3.9 million gap, shipped consoles do not reflect sold units, and No. In the past the difference in console sales has fluctuated heavily. Just a year ago the difference was 8.1 million sold. PS3 really benefited from the PS3 Slim and price cut, the 360 Slim could not ever have done as well because it no longer has that "shocking" aspect. I think until the price cut, 360 will sell on par with PS3, and after the price cut, it will continue to sell on par, with minor fluctuations bothways in sales.
the fact that i say is that price is the biggest thing that has faultered PS3 sales always and the under $200 means $199 is a huge deal and bring those middle-class families in for the purchases.most of last gens sales came at $149.
its like when a product is $1000 and the price gets cut to $800,you don't care cause its still way expensive.by when it cuts to $400 from $1000,that bring in the low income public.thats what PS3 still hasn't hit
I understand that logic, but how many 360 sales are due to the 360 Arcade? In 2008 when there was a $200 Arcade, $300 Pro, and $400 Elite, I know sales went 10%, 80%, 10% respectively. So 360 will benefit about as well from a $200 Elite model. PS3 will probably benefit a little more because there is no cheaper arcade model, so lower income families never had the option of buying a PS3, but a $130 Arcade will probably offset the minor difference the PS3 got from a price cut to $200, so this should not boost either console over the other.
Besides, a $130 360, how many people can turn that down as a secondary system? How many Wii owners are there who want to try out HD gaming, but are too cheap? How many PS3 owners are there who want to play 360 exclusives like Halo and Gears? How many current 360 owners want a second 360 for a sibling (for those spoiled kids who can't share), or another room in the house? Thats my logic.
I also believe a potential price cut of PS3 to $200 will be offset by a 360 Elite price cut to $200, and a 360 Arcade price cut to $130.
again this is what i find total nonsense to even bring the ELITE sales and price in,it won't matter as arcade is what matters the most
No, see I comeplety disagree from what I know about Arcade sales in 2008, and from how little the arcade Slim sales spike was in the summer. I think 80% or more of 360 sales are Elite 360 sales, and I've asked friends who work at game stores, they tell me they stock up on a lot more Elites then Arcades.
and arcade is already in the reach of the low incomes families.so a further price-cut stimulates sales but not that much.the PS3 is out of the low income groups ability to purchase.
another thing,MS won't cut it to $70,its just not worth at a $50 pricecut is what will be needed.then a year later they can got to $130 or $100
We can only speculate, still I agree with you that the Arcade won't go to $100. $130-$150, dunno if it makes a big difference.
I believe the sales difference will fluctuate consistantly between PS3 and 360, as it has in the past, and the difference will never lead PS3 to be supperior, nor will it grant the 360 will a lead in total sales of over 10 million.
again,your arguments are off the roof.
you don't take a considerate number but straight to 10million
5 million is the initial difference, I don't think it will go 5 million more in favor of PS3 or 360 (meaning I don't think the difference will ever be zero or 10 million, it will stay closer to the initial difference)
well i believe the the gap will stay this way and then shrink in Q1(Jan -mar)
another indication
Indication of what?
you know how much push the 360 got when 360 redesign happened,everybody was saying it obliterated the wii and PS3.but it didn't.PS3 sold way more than it in this quarter
Not according to VGChartz, and I'll listen to VGChartz numbers, and data from the 3 press conferences over you. Sorry, your just not going to convince me of your theory, and until proven it is a theory by definition.
Finally I think software arguements are also BS, 360 software is above PS3 weekly software, and I have shown in previous debates that 360 has just as many if not more quality exclusive titles being released in the comming years, and in the past.
now here did this come from,this again what i am talking about.this wasn't anywhere in our debate and you briought it in.this is also trying to get me to enter in a new debate
This never was a topic in our debate, but I was summarizing my reasoning for why I believe PS3 will never overtake the 360, thats why I included it.
AND again if you think
Gears 3, forza 4, Halo 4, XCOM, MechWarrior, Project Draco (From the makers of Panzer Dragoon, and likely to be a Panzer Dragoon game), Dead Island, Huxley: The Dystopia (Shooter published by MS if you didn't know), Steel Batallion, Prey 2 (Prey 1 got above 9/10 ratings) is able to compete with this:
Twisted metal, infamous 2, resistance 3, killzone 3, agent, final fantasy 13 versus, gran turismo 5, little big planet 2, last guradian
See your missing A LOT of future 360 exclusives. Not to mention that MS usually mentions at least 1 big exclusive the year of release (e.g. Gears 2, Forza 3), PGR5 is rumored to be a future title, and FFVXIII is rumored to go multi-platform.
this is being optimistic
Not when you actually include the 360 exclusives, and if you include games from this fall (since you included GT5), there there is Fable 3, and Halo as well which will likely push many units this fall, and beyond.
and this is why our debate doesn't go properly cause you just think all this is not going to have any effect and what ever 360 is going to have will push sales but what PS3 has will have no push and over that its sales will decrease
I have valid reasoning, which shouldn't be ignored. You feel my opinion is unrealistic because you feel the 360 has nothing going for it in the future, so MS has nothing to counter act future big PS3 console pushers. I feel your opinion is unrealistic because your ignoring 360 future console pushers (like the 8 exclusives you ignored)
In a different thread we can have a different debate. A Civil one, free of insults and trash talking. However I don't think there is much hope improving this specific debate, and I think continuing would just be a poor representation of VGChartz forums.
continuing this and solving our discussion would be better for VGC,not just 2 jackasses(me and you,just kidding no insult) debate for a while and then leave it to burn
Actually your last post was very civil, so I'm very happy. :D
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