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Forums - Nintendo - Here we go again: Heavy Rain creator calls Wii a toy and board game

Did any of you watch the entire interview?  Cage is pretty modest in the interview, going as far as saying Heavy Rain isn't up to par with what he envisions and that it was just a small step in the direction he wishes to push the format of his games.

He was pretty modest the entire time.

He mentioned (that's for you CGI, although I don't know if that was revealed before or not) that they're working hard on their next game, with R&D and motion capture sessions being in full force right now, and that they are creating an entirely new engine for their next game.  They're also recruiting, making their team bigger.  

He mentions, showing how humble he is, contrary to what a lot of clueless people here believe, that they are working hard to figure how they can tell a better story, in a better way (acknowledging that there is work to be done on these elements of their games).

As far as the recent multiplatform rumors are concerned, Cage was asked if they were still in partnership with Sony for their next game.  He specifies that many of the major publishers approached them after Heavy Rain, showing a lot of interest.  They (Quantic Dreams) went to talk with many of them, while still staying in touch with Sony wondering if their next project would appeal to them or not.  After sitting with Sony, they ended up sealing the deal with them as they already had a working and healthy collaboration with them, and they love the hardware ("I really think the Playstation 3 is an extraordinary console.  So we want to keep going on that road with Sony and see where it will lead us.").

Now, about his comment about the Wii, Cage was asked this:

Last question, this time about the Wii.  It's a real phenomenon as the sales of the Wii are starting to plunge just about everywhere in the world, do you think it's somehow the end of the Nintendo empire as we know it now and do you think Nintendo will have to react quickly by releasing a new home console?

To which he responded (I made sure to get his speech, translating the expression he used to their english counterparts as accurately as possible):

Cage:  I think it's the end of the Nintendo empire on the Wii (he emphasises that part).  Which was an "anomaly" in the cycle.  It altered the whole cycle since there was the 2 consoles which were way ahead technically, technologically than this console that won the market with its controller, it's innovation and also it's flagship titles.  It completely tempered with this cycle (this console generation) and the fight we were going to expect between Sony and Microsoft finally didn't happened the way we envisioned it at first.

Now, I'm really optimistic about Nintendo's future because I think that in the past, they've shown that they were able to innovate and surprise, take the whole market back for themselves. So I'm very curious to see what else they will invent.  Although in the end I don't think they will be able to redo a "Wii" 50 times again. I think that there's a moment, when we have a console like Playstation, with a Blu-Ray drive, a hard-disc drive, that connects to the internet, that does a bilion things, and really is a multimedia center in the living room, and which also has an extraordinary hardcore game library, well I think that at one point people make the difference between something that is more similar to a toy or a real nice parlour game with the Wii, and a real media center with a very strong game library.  I think they will have a hard time to redo the same thing they did with the Wii.  That being said, they have the capability to do an other one.


This certainly doesn't sound like he's bashing or belittling anything. He's being quite honest here, and expressing an opinion most of us have about the Wii.  Not that it's a bad product, but that the sofware and execution caters more  to a casual audience (let's be honest here, out of the 75M who bought a Wii, how many of them are using the system exclusively in a casual way, if at all at this point in time?)   In any case, this thread is the typical "take out of context" nonsense that we see too often on the internet.  Most of you make a bigger deal out of it than it really is.



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LordTheNightKnight said:
Boutros said:

I just don't understand your point. What is good about Heavy Rain then in your opinion? Why do you think people loved the game? I'm not the only who liked the story. It was praised for it's story.

You are in the minority if you disliked the story. That is if you've played the game.

And Heavy Rain's plot is much more than a simple mystery story. It involves great characters, emotional events and a dramatic premise.

There's so much more to Heavy Rain than meets the eyes.


As far as I know, it's just the vocal minority that likes the story. The game didn't have sales legs. It sold on the strength of ads that made it look like something else. After that, the sales dropped off. If more gamers liked the story, as it was tied to the game, then it would have sold better, like Modern Warfare or Red Dead Redemption.

And it's not about whether I dislike the story. It's still weak and badly written regardless of what I think. I like the movie Armageddon, but I'm not going to pretent it's a good story or a smart movie.

As for being a mystery, I did not mean it in the whodunnit sense alone. The other aspects in this story are part of those works as well. And the characters are not great. They are cookie cutter, bland, and do things more because the plot says so than anything that fits what little characterization they have.

For emotional events, so what? That doesn't make a good story. That often makes melodrama. Neither does a dramatic premise.

Actually, part of the premise is wrong. The question given to Ethan is closer to "What would you do if I put a gun to the head of someone you loved?" than "How far would you go..." The latter is better realized in movies like Ransom and Taken. Those stories have the fathers doing things of their own choice, which means they are going as far as they need to, not being forced to run a torturous obstacle course.

You think Heavy Rain's success was due to false advertising?...lolol

It's at 87 on metacritic and sold 1.5 million to this date. It was critically acclaimed and it rightfully sold a lot.

And you certainly don't know much about who liked Heavy Rain's story as even my friends who don't play video games loved Heavy Rain for it's story.

No one cares whether it's missing some details in the plot. Never watched an Alfred Hitchcock movie? He didn't mind about the why of events, it was all about the way people reacted to them.



Smeags said:

Whatever floats his boat. As a Wii owner, the console has brought me and my family and friends hours upon hours of smiles and fun, adrenaline rushes and high-fives. There's been moments of joy and moments of frustration. The Wii has provided me an "extremely strong video game experience" (something he forgets to mention when talking about the "funny board game" that is Wii).

*Shrugs* But what can ya do...

And playing a funny board game wouldn't cause those exact same effects?

Anyway, he wasn't trying to troll the Wii. He was just trying to say that, while the PS3 was a multimedia centre, the Wii is a games console - a "toy", as such. He just didn't choose his words very well. 



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

@ CGI_Quality: He said that they were working hard to improve their methods, how they tell a story, etc.

Intervierer then asked:  While still in a partnership with Sony?

To which he answered: We're still in a partnership with Sony (notice the smile ^^,).

 

So take it any way you want.  To me, it sounds like a confirmation that their next title, or at least one of them if they have more than one, will be a Sony exclusive and produced in the same vein as Heavy Rain was (with lots of backing from Sony).



CGI-Quality said:
Hynad said:

@ CGI_Quality: He said that they were working hard to improve their methods, how they tell a story, etc.

Intervierer then asked:  While still in a partnership with Sony?

To which he answered: We're still in a partnership with Sony (notice the smile ^^,).


So take it any way you want.  To me, it sounds like a confirmation that their next title, or at least one of them if they have more than one, will be a Sony exclusive and produced in the same vein as Heavy Rain was (with lots of backing from Sony).

I really want to see him unleash his potential on the PS3. To me, after extensively following HR's tech, I was left wanting more (even with my craziness over the title). I know he could do better, on the tech side and story telling, so I really want him to continue there.

Well, just take a look at how Uncharted was for Naughty Dog and how they improved everything with the sequel.

Heavy Rain is Quantum Dreams' first game on the PS3.  Like Uncharted for Naughty Dog, it is plagued with technical issues (as minor as they are).  Now imagine what they could do with the expertise they gained from their first game.

Of course, Naughty Dog is one heck of a developer, and maybe the comparison between the two just can't be made.  But I have faith they will improve on just about every aspects for their next game.  I sure can't wait to see footage and info of what they are cooking right now.



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CGI-Quality said:
Hynad said:
CGI-Quality said:
Hynad said:

@ CGI_Quality: He said that they were working hard to improve their methods, how they tell a story, etc.

Intervierer then asked:  While still in a partnership with Sony?

To which he answered: We're still in a partnership with Sony (notice the smile ^^,).


So take it any way you want.  To me, it sounds like a confirmation that their next title, or at least one of them if they have more than one, will be a Sony exclusive and produced in the same vein as Heavy Rain was (with lots of backing from Sony).

I really want to see him unleash his potential on the PS3. To me, after extensively following HR's tech, I was left wanting more (even with my craziness over the title). I know he could do better, on the tech side and story telling, so I really want him to continue there.

Well, just take a look at how Uncharted was for Naughty Dog and how they improved everything with the sequel.

Heavy Rain is Quantum Dreams' first game on the PS3.  Like Uncharted for Naughty Dog, it is plagued with technical issues (as minor as they are).  Now imagine what they could do with the expertise they gained from their first game.

Of course, Naughty Dog is one heck of a developer, and maybe the comparison between the two just can't be made.  But I have faith they will improve on just about every aspects for their next game.  I sure can't wait to see footage and info of what they are cooking right now.

Tis' true, he really could produce a mega hit on the system. I believe he is capable of an UC1-UC2 like jump. I want him to now focus on that.

Maybe that's the very reason why they're doing a new engine from scratch?

They learned what they did right, and what didn't work, and they're uptimising a new engine to work even better with the hardware they're now much more familiar with.  That's just a guess though.  Maybe the HR engine just isn't made to do what they want for their next game.  We'll see in due time. 

Please, David Cage, make it so it's for next E3 !!!



I wonder why some gets defensive when someone claims Wii is a toy. Where I disagree is that PS3 is a toy as well.  And what so offensive with Wii is like board games since Wii is known for local muliplayer just like board games? Wii is known to have more child friendly games.



Smidlee said:

I wonder why some gets defensive when someone claims Wii is a toy. Where I disagree is that PS3 is a toy as well.  And what so offensive with Wii is like board games since Wii is known for local muliplayer just like board games?


There's nothing offensive about calling Wii a board game; it's a compliment; board games is the most hardcore kind of entertainment there is!



SaviorX said:

I wonder... why does everybody who is rarely or never even associated with the Wii in terms of content... always have a comment about it or Nintendo?

I mean, if the console does not concern you...or you don't even make games for it, why even mention it?

And yet, we  always get an earful of what the Wii is doing wrong or what its limitations are. I don't understand it.

You refuse to make Wii games; you complain about Nintendo not working hard enough; you belittle the console; you intentionally release subpar games to abuse and destroy the market; you spend the least money on it and still make profit. What more can they possibly do to prove they hate it?

I'm really surprised no one has attacked Reggie Fils-Aime at an E3 like the hip-Hop Awards already... :P

I'll give you my take on it: they feel threatened. Nintendo has seen that the current gaming industry, as is, is an unsustainable model. What was it, that made the past several systems successful? Access to the masses. So how can you get out to more people? That's where Nintendo went with the Wii.

And Nintendo was successful. MASSIVELY so. Enough so that the 'traditional' developers were threatened by the new people that Nintendo was bringing in. Their 'hardcore' games couldn't sell as well as the new 'casual' games in most cases- the base of sales was shifting. Rather than trying to adapt to these new gamers, and make games that could appeal to a wider swath of the market, they'd rather belittle what is causing the change. And if they could get enough people to believe their, frankly, crap, public interest and confidence in the Wii would drop, and these new gamers would move to more 'hardcore' offerings. (Which, sorry, no. They'd leave gaming again, and help continue to perpetuate that gaming is an isolationist hobby.)

Fortunately, it's taken about 4 years of their bitching, comparing, whining, and, yes, sabotage, to finally dent the Wii's shell. But by now, it's too late. The Wii has seen enough success that it has both Microsoft and Sony looking at how to emulate what the Wii made successful, with their own spin. (I am not getting into Wiimote vs Kinect vs Move.) Nintendo has made their impression on the market. But continue, the detractors will, since they've seen the Wii can be dented, and they'll continue until they get their way (unlikely), they decide to adapt (even less likely), or they go bankrupt catering to an increasingly less relevant 'hardcore' market. It may seem cruel in the current economic market, but I await their bankruptcy; it's the only thing that'll stop their whining.



-dunno001

-On a quest for the truly perfect game; I don't think it exists...

I surely don't want them to go bankrupt. While WOW is the most successful of all video games in history I want to play something besides MMORPG. I'm so thankful we still got some developers building more hardcore games like Iracing even though it will never sell anywhere close to Mario Kart or GT5.