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Forums - Nintendo - Here we go again: Heavy Rain creator calls Wii a toy and board game

.jayderyu said:

... I'm an RPG gamer. The ones that are 200 pages. In all honestly I can tell you now. That I/we consider RPG the peak of table top gaming. Along with TT War Games :P . Risk, Monopoly. They are Toy's in regards to gaming. Simplified and for the "casual". Well suffice to say. Many companies would love to see their RPG sell like Monopoly. However most of the RPG community has grown past the "we are better" mentality. The community has come to accept that taste, time, preference is the most important factors. To say Monopoly is like a Toy isn't derogatory. It's just  state of fact that it appeals to different taste.

So when will the VG industry reach this maturity.... I would say apx 10-20 years. When the Gamers brought up on the Wii will be getting into the industry.

What exactly do you mean by this? The Wii is part of the video game industry. Pretending that it is not is quite foolish.



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pacman91 said:
.jayderyu said:

... I'm an RPG gamer. The ones that are 200 pages. In all honestly I can tell you now. That I/we consider RPG the peak of table top gaming. Along with TT War Games :P . Risk, Monopoly. They are Toy's in regards to gaming. Simplified and for the "casual". Well suffice to say. Many companies would love to see their RPG sell like Monopoly. However most of the RPG community has grown past the "we are better" mentality. The community has come to accept that taste, time, preference is the most important factors. To say Monopoly is like a Toy isn't derogatory. It's just  state of fact that it appeals to different taste.

So when will the VG industry reach this maturity.... I would say apx 10-20 years. When the Gamers brought up on the Wii will be getting into the industry.

What exactly do you mean by this? The Wii is part of the video game industry. Pretending that it is not is quite foolish.

 

You read "Gamers brought up on the Wii" as "The Wii itself"?



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

CGI-Quality said:
richardhutnik said:

It would be beneficial if those who create GAMES not be so full of themselves.  I have had deeper and more rewarding experiences, with more replayability, playing some boardgames than I have had playing a number of videogames.  The pretention that you think you creating a game needs to be thought of as some work of art is of higher form than even movies is absurd.  Get over yourself designers.  Stop trying to think you need to do movies.  Your compete with movies experience will end up bankrupting the industry for one thing.  And, when you have such pretention, you do something like, "Press X to Jason" ends up looking WAY out of place.

Now excuse me if my next game I play is Kirby's Epic Yarn.  Sorry if this is too much of a toy and too boardgamish for you game designer.

Considering how much hate you gave HR, I'm not surprised to see such a ridiculous post here.

I would suggest you stop confusing my hating of the hype behind Heavy Rain, and it both being used as some sort of fanboy salvo of awesomeness in the console war, and it being made out to be more than it is, with my opinion of it as interactive fiction.  I have Indigo Prophesy on my 360.  I would be interested in seeing an updated version that worked.  However, I do believe the spin towards Heavy Rain, is one that is not healthy for the videogame industry.  While it is good to do an experimental piece that stands out unique, if the attempt to keep trying to make a movie-like experience, with MONSTER production costs, is going to bankrupt the industry. 

My post prior is triggered by this individual, SO full of himself, ripping into the Wii, which does what videogames have been know to be, that is things that are fun, and games.  They also are sometimes toys.  And him taking a dump on boardgames I am PARTICULARLY offended with.  If videogames were more like boardgames, they would be more replayable, and more social for people.  The experience would actually be healthier.

You can take what you will about what I say.  But I do stand by this: Games are GAMES.  You can try to do more with them, but if you happen to end up feeling a need that you MUST do more with them, and are willing to bankrupt yourself in the process, you don't do anyone a service here.  Flat out, most game designers SUCK at storytelling, and the attempt to combine storytelling with the game medium, by means of bringing in writers who don't know about good game design, you end up with a fractured product in the end.  What you get, in the fragmented approach as the norm, is what you saw in Modern Warfare 2.  If THAT were a movie, it would of been in the running for worst film of the year. 

I will stand here now and also say I just finished Fable III, playing through twice, and I am done with it.  I bought it the same week as when it was released, and it already has been traded in.  WOW, I got a week or two of play out of it, and that is that.  Oh, the story was pretty good, and the acting was good.  But it ended up both on the short and easy side.  It is a disposable product in the end.  Now, if it ended up actually having it be where you ran the kingdom like a kingdom, and managed issues (like Simcity), then you would have a game with longevity.  Instead, what do you get?  I got a disposable experience that I am done with.  What sticks with me is how I want to punch Peter M's company in the face for doing a plot twist that works in films, but forced me to do poorly because I didn't prepare propertly.  Plot twist works in movies.  Here, it didn't.

 



WereKitten said:
richardhutnik said:

It would be beneficial if those who create GAMES not be so full of themselves.  I have had deeper and more rewarding experiences, with more replayability, playing some boardgames than I have had playing a number of videogames.  The pretention that you think you creating a game needs to be thought of as some work of art is of higher form than even movies is absurd.  Get over yourself designers.  Stop trying to think you need to do movies.  Your compete with movies experience will end up bankrupting the industry for one thing.  And, when you have such pretention, you do something like, "Press X to Jason" ends up looking WAY out of place.

Now excuse me if my next game I play is Kirby's Epic Yarn.  Sorry if this is too much of a toy and too boardgamish for you game designer.

Read what he said in french. He was not at all dismissive about, and he actually never mentioned, board games.

He said that he thinks that people can see the difference between "a toy or a pleasant society game (experience) using the Wii" ("un jouet, ou à un jeu de société très sympa avec la Wii") and something that is more of  "an multimedia center really strong on videogames" ("un vrai centre multimédia avec vraiment un jeu vidéo extrêmement fort").

Sounds more about "you can do much more than playing games on the PS3", not "playing on the Wii is bad" to me.

Plus, since he went on in the past about how he considers his own work more an interactive drama than a classic videogame, I doubt very much that there's any derogatory sense in the distinction, or that he thinks any worse of games, either video-based or not. He's simply interested in different things and he's going along Sony's and MS's idea of pushing their machines as all-round entertainment centers.

You can take what I said, and NOT apply it the designer of Heavy Rain then.  Take what I said and apply it to anyone who begins to trumpet movies as games, and ignore "Press X to Jason" from this, although X for Jason can fit into any place where gameplay matters, and not excessive dependence on stories.  I would go with the original French, but I don't read it.  Apparently the original poster had an agenda or the writer of the article did, if that isn't right.  In this, I will stand by, if the game industry keeps thinking it wants to make movies, it will end up bankrupting itself. 



Off topic:  Great photo in the OP.  I love the Seventh Seal.

On topic:  I would like to tell the Heavy Rain creator that Heavy Rain is just a Choose Your Own Adventure Book with breast implants and bleached hair. 

 



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WereKitten said:
richardhutnik said:

It would be beneficial if those who create GAMES not be so full of themselves.  I have had deeper and more rewarding experiences, with more replayability, playing some boardgames than I have had playing a number of videogames.  The pretention that you think you creating a game needs to be thought of as some work of art is of higher form than even movies is absurd.  Get over yourself designers.  Stop trying to think you need to do movies.  Your compete with movies experience will end up bankrupting the industry for one thing.  And, when you have such pretention, you do something like, "Press X to Jason" ends up looking WAY out of place.

Now excuse me if my next game I play is Kirby's Epic Yarn.  Sorry if this is too much of a toy and too boardgamish for you game designer.

Read what he said in french. He was not at all dismissive about, and he actually never mentioned, board games.

He said that he thinks that people can see the difference between "a toy or a pleasant society game (experience) using the Wii" ("un jouet, ou à un jeu de société très sympa avec la Wii") and something that is more of  "an multimedia center really strong on videogames" ("un vrai centre multimédia avec vraiment un jeu vidéo extrêmement fort").

Sounds more about "you can do much more than playing games on the PS3", not "playing on the Wii is bad" to me.

Plus, since he went on in the past about how he considers his own work more an interactive drama than a classic videogame, I doubt very much that there's any derogatory sense in the distinction, or that he thinks any worse of games, either video-based or not. He's simply interested in different things and he's going along Sony's and MS's idea of pushing their machines as all-round entertainment centers.

No, "un jeu de société" means "a boardgame", you're mistranslating by deconstructing the phrase and translating word by word.  

Cage also says Wii had distorted the natural market, and that Nintendo's "Wii empire" is now over.  People saying Cage is being misquoted should watch the full interview, he's pretty dismissive in regards to Wii and Nintendo and he's not exactly indirect about it.



Well calling the wii a board game seems like taking it a bit far.



BloodyRain said:

Well calling the wii a board game seems like taking it a bit far.

Boardgames rock.   Jeux de société is really a bit broader than that though, it could encompass pretty much any table or group game, from cards to chess to mahjong to tic-tac-toe to dominoes to D&D to charades.  Cage meant it as an insult, but frankly it does nothing but betray his opinion on what videogames should be.  And I'd say his vision is pretty much nothing at all what I want...



My neighbor's favorite toy is a PS3.



Its starting to get boring. Its always the same two excuse: Wii is a toy and is collecting dust. They need a new excuse, their novelty phrases are starting to become old.

Whats happening lately with people? Again the "Wii collecting dust" "Wii is a toy" and "PS3 can surpass Wii sales". NIntendo needs to do something and shut up the mouth of a lot of bashing people.



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