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Forums - Sales Discussion - I think I have found a legitimat reason for Sony's overstuffed ship numbers

evolution_1ne on 01 November 2010
Michael-5 said:
Dexorosorous said:
Michael-5 said:

Why would Sony be in court if they didn't lie? If you present the truth in such a way where people are gulable enough to think the console is doing better then it is, how is that Sony's fault? You don't get sued for telling the truth. Here look:

Demand for the PS3 is high, and we have shipped an astounding 3.5 million PS3's making this one of the strongest Q3's ever for the PS3!!!!

or

In preparation for the holiday season, we have managed to ship 3.5 million PS3's in order to stock up retailers.

Both say the same thing, Sony can't be sued for saying one over the other. This is not fraud, you should look up the definition of fraud.

Seriously, why are you haggling me on such a little thing? If my opinion isn't 100% unquestionably Sony's why do people always try to argue with me and change my opinion. I never see people insult me when my Nintendo or MS opinion isn't 100%, but for Sony people seem to love to jump on me. It's good not to take information unquestionably, you should give it a try sometime, most large VGChartz adjustments get re-adjusted slightly sometime down the road, and I'm only saying above DS sales is shocking, and I'd take it with a grain of salt.

As for Move, I think it's a gimmick, same with Kinect, and I can find tons of articles to support my opinion, so don't tell me every single review thinks otherwise. Also I don't think there are any good games for move, why get hardware when there is not good software? Sure VGChartz gave Sports Champions above 8/10, but I've seen multiple reviews for it getting 6/10. Also after that what is there? Time Crisis is gettin 5-6/10 on most websites I look at, Tumble looks cool, but $40 for what looks like a PSN game? This is my opinion, I'm not trying to get you to agree, I just think it's shocking that Move is pushing PS3's almost as well as a Price Cut and Slim redesign...

Anyway I'm not here to argue to quality of Move, I just don't see why Move would push more consoles then a good game (like Halo, God of War, or Super Mario Galaxy 2). Like why is Move pushing more consoles then Wii Fit? I would think most people interested in a PS3/360 would be interested in HD gaming, not HD Wii imitations...

If you're argument is: "Move sucks, why should it give the ps3 a huge boost" then i'm going to have to say that your opinion isn't fact. Point is, Move works and people are buying it, whether or not you like it is your own opinion. These data and adjustments ONLY tells us that the MOVE is a product that WORKS and consumers are noticing it, but its quality is something that is judged by people like you and me. anyway, i'm sure kinect will do better but hey i won't sound so butthurt when we finally get the sales data for it. 

I'm not saying Move sucks, so why is it giving PS3 a huge boost. I'm saying why is a peripheral giving PS3 a huge boost when the peripheral itself is selling in small quantities. Wii Fit far outsold the Move, and it didn't push as many consoles, sure it wasn't console bundled, but still.

Why is Move potentially pushing more consoles then GT5? Why is Move pushing more consoles then MGS4 with the last backward compatible PS3? It's unreal how much Move is selling, no wonder Sony and MS devoted their press conference to Motion gaming.

Guess we all know next gen consoles will incorperate motion gaming in some form.

I DON'T ACCECPT THESE NUMBERZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is all I'm getting from you dude.



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postofficebuddy on 01 November 2010
Torillian said:
postofficebuddy said:

I pointed this out in the weekly analysis article. This whole argument about the adjustments being bogus and Sony stuffing the channel is kind of pointless when even after the adjustments we still show Sony stuffing the channel anyway.


Was curious if that was true so what's the Shipped to Sell through difference for the consoles after the adjustments out of curiosity?


360 - 900k

Wii - 1.3 million

PS3 - 2.1 million

Slightly rounded of course.



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Torillian on 01 November 2010
postofficebuddy said:
Torillian said:
postofficebuddy said:

I pointed this out in the weekly analysis article. This whole argument about the adjustments being bogus and Sony stuffing the channel is kind of pointless when even after the adjustments we still show Sony stuffing the channel anyway.


Was curious if that was true so what's the Shipped to Sell through difference for the consoles after the adjustments out of curiosity?


360 - 900k

Wii - 1.3 million

PS3 - 2.1 million

Slightly rounded of course.


Thanks for doing the math for my lazy ass ^^



...

Michael-5 on 01 November 2010
CGI-Quality said:
Michael-5 said:
CGI-Quality said:

@ Michael

You haven't been insulted, whhich you really need to stop claiming. You just can't take even the slightest criticism. You aren't always going to be right on issues, or factually correct. You have to accept it and move on. On this topic, there are holes in some of what you say. My link should help you out.

When you come into a thread telling people not to bother with me, thats insulting.. you should learn to watch how you talk to your peers.

I know I'm not always right, never claimed to be.

Man look, I made a valid and reasonable arguement, one that should be considered. You shouldn't critisize me on every point i make that doesn't unargueably support Sony.

Data may get re-adjusted, most large adjustments on VGChartz do get re-adjustments in the future. This isn't a big deal, I still agree PS3 should be outselling the 360 by a substantial margin. I just think, like console redisigns, and large games, the boost from Move should have subsided quite a bit by now. Sony data does not cover October sales, those are just calculated estimated from VGChartz analysts, and it's completly reasonable to question PS3 sales, especially since they are above DS sales for multiple weeks (something the PS3 and 360 Slim designs didn't even accomplish).

This is just opinion, there is no right or wrong right now because none of us here are proffesional analysists, nor do many of us have to tools to conduct large scale sales analysis's. Why are you so critical on me of this?

I bet if I said the Halo Reach console boost was over-estimated, you wouldn't critisize me (and guess what, it was! It got reduced by 12k). Why can't I say something like this on Move?

As for your link, I read that a long time ago and never questioned it. If you listened to what I said instead of decided to jump in here and say I'm wrong, you would understand that I'm only questioning the boost in sales in September due to the Move. This is what I am debating, not the overall increase in total PS3 sales.

Man some people here need to stop being so defensive when it comes to their favorite console. I made one small reasonable point, and look at the resulting debate.

I mean, look at how you've trashed Move in here, while questioning VGC's figures. "A glowing ball, imitation wand with no good games except RE:5". With nonsense like that, it's no wonder why people aren't taking you seriously, and/or are seemingly aggressive towards you. You even went as far as claiming that Sony's "over exaggerating" their numbers. Do you realize that is a crime and Sony could be brought up on FRAUD charges? You really need to understand how much of this stuff works before making these claims.

The only advice I can give you - a. don't always feel like you "need" to tell someone what to do. b. learn to accept being wrong from time to time and c. Don't try to force opinions as facts.

The reason why I rarely debate with you anymore is because you aren't willing to accept being wrong in any form, unless it's slapped right in your face (such as your claims of Tumble being $40 when you weren't even sure of what you were talking about). That and you take even the slightest critiquing as an insult.

The purpose of refering to the Move as a black magic wand with a glowing ball on the end, is not to insult the Move (I'm sure it's fun), but to show how silly it is for such an unusual peripheral to push console sales more then a Wii Balance Board, or a Console Redesign. However I probably did go a bit harsh with that statement. I may have done that simple because of the shock of it pushing so many consoles.

Um... people do take me seriously, thats why they debate with me. You don't take me seriously, and that I dunno why, maybe because my view on gaming appears to be drastically different then yours, but I debate weuite well with everyone else who has a different opinion then me. So I dunno why my comments offend you so much...

As for this fraud thing.... I never said Sony lied, so no crime was done. I just said that the way their press conference went may have left people thinking PS3 was selling better then it is. Please re-read my comment if you must.

As for your advice? Um... maybe you should take that advice yourself because I don't seem to suffer from a,b, or c, but I think you do..

You mention I can't admit I am wrong, and use Tumble as an example, and if you read my responce to that point, I ADMITTED I WAS WRONG.... I thought It was a full game. So please, stop trying to make me look bad just because you can't win an arguement with me.

You just don't like to argue with me because I make reasonable claims that you don't like to hear and because they aren't always pro-PS3, so you ignore me.

And telling people to ignore me, is insulting, not critiquing.



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Michael-5 on 01 November 2010
evolution_1ne said:
Michael-5 said:
Dexorosorous said:
Michael-5 said:

Why would Sony be in court if they didn't lie? If you present the truth in such a way where people are gulable enough to think the console is doing better then it is, how is that Sony's fault? You don't get sued for telling the truth. Here look:

Demand for the PS3 is high, and we have shipped an astounding 3.5 million PS3's making this one of the strongest Q3's ever for the PS3!!!!

or

In preparation for the holiday season, we have managed to ship 3.5 million PS3's in order to stock up retailers.

Both say the same thing, Sony can't be sued for saying one over the other. This is not fraud, you should look up the definition of fraud.

Seriously, why are you haggling me on such a little thing? If my opinion isn't 100% unquestionably Sony's why do people always try to argue with me and change my opinion. I never see people insult me when my Nintendo or MS opinion isn't 100%, but for Sony people seem to love to jump on me. It's good not to take information unquestionably, you should give it a try sometime, most large VGChartz adjustments get re-adjusted slightly sometime down the road, and I'm only saying above DS sales is shocking, and I'd take it with a grain of salt.

As for Move, I think it's a gimmick, same with Kinect, and I can find tons of articles to support my opinion, so don't tell me every single review thinks otherwise. Also I don't think there are any good games for move, why get hardware when there is not good software? Sure VGChartz gave Sports Champions above 8/10, but I've seen multiple reviews for it getting 6/10. Also after that what is there? Time Crisis is gettin 5-6/10 on most websites I look at, Tumble looks cool, but $40 for what looks like a PSN game? This is my opinion, I'm not trying to get you to agree, I just think it's shocking that Move is pushing PS3's almost as well as a Price Cut and Slim redesign...

Anyway I'm not here to argue to quality of Move, I just don't see why Move would push more consoles then a good game (like Halo, God of War, or Super Mario Galaxy 2). Like why is Move pushing more consoles then Wii Fit? I would think most people interested in a PS3/360 would be interested in HD gaming, not HD Wii imitations...

If you're argument is: "Move sucks, why should it give the ps3 a huge boost" then i'm going to have to say that your opinion isn't fact. Point is, Move works and people are buying it, whether or not you like it is your own opinion. These data and adjustments ONLY tells us that the MOVE is a product that WORKS and consumers are noticing it, but its quality is something that is judged by people like you and me. anyway, i'm sure kinect will do better but hey i won't sound so butthurt when we finally get the sales data for it. 

I'm not saying Move sucks, so why is it giving PS3 a huge boost. I'm saying why is a peripheral giving PS3 a huge boost when the peripheral itself is selling in small quantities. Wii Fit far outsold the Move, and it didn't push as many consoles, sure it wasn't console bundled, but still.

Why is Move potentially pushing more consoles then GT5? Why is Move pushing more consoles then MGS4 with the last backward compatible PS3? It's unreal how much Move is selling, no wonder Sony and MS devoted their press conference to Motion gaming.

Guess we all know next gen consoles will incorperate motion gaming in some form.

I DON'T ACCECPT THESE NUMBERZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

is all I'm getting from you dude.

Then re-read my posts because that is not at all what I am saying, and just because you fail to comprehend that, doesn't mean you should be rude to me.



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AnveL on 01 November 2010

360 fanboy are just so free trying their best to create anything to prove that PS3 are not selling well... xDD

 



SOLIDSNAKE08 on 01 November 2010

what is wrong with you 360 fans? the numbers aint gonna change so get used to it.



Michael-5 on 01 November 2010
CGI-Quality said:

I didn't tell anybody to ignore you. I said he shouldn't bother with that debate, and I'm sure he can see what I was saying. You never just accept being wrong. I also don't care about who supports what console/company more. You always go there when your argument is weak.

Anyway - you said Sony is exaggerating their numbers (which would be considered a form of lying), which is fraudulent in this situation. And saying it's "silly for Move to push consoles" is the kind of stuff that I'm talking about. You expect to be taken seriously with a post line like that? Sure it's your own take, I'll give you that. But obviosuly, many people disagree with it, hence the numbers.

So whats the difference between, don't bother debating with him, and ignore him? I don't see any.

How am I wrong? Can opinion be wrong now? Whats with you and trying to prove me wrong? Are you simply annoyed that you can't do it, especially since most of the time we disagree? So I guess this means you finally proved me wrong on....what is it that I am wrong about?

Did not say Sony exagerated their numbers, don't put words in my mouth, I just said the way Sony presented the information may have exagerated their appearance, and I only intended that to be a small comment, but people seem to love to debate it's validity.

I did say I think VGChartz over-exagerated Move sales, I think PS3 weekly sales should be stonger pre-Move and slightly weaker post-Move, and that I think there may be a re-adjustment in the future.

Don't you find it shocking that Move is selling as more consoles then Wii Fit, or almost as many as the PS3/X360 Slim redesigns? I do, and If you disagree thats fine, but don't start critisizing my opinion just becase it's different.

I also stick to Move having no real good compatible games, except for Resident Evil 5, and older games that will be compatible with the Move controller. Sports Champions is argueably the best Move exclusive title, and lets look at the reviews. Metacritic 76/100, IGN 7.5/10, GameSpot 7.5/10, GameTrailers 6.8/10, etc. The only good review it got was VGChartz which gave it an 8.6/10. So naturally, I find it very shocking that Move is pushing PS3 sales. You don't have to agree, I don't expect you too, this is just my opinion.



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Michael-5 on 01 November 2010
CGI-Quality said:

Micaheal said:

Sony can overexagerate truths. For example, Sony may have shipped 3.5 million units early for the holiday rush, where MS and Nintendo may plan to ship their holiday consoles in October. Then a 3.5 versus 2.8 million consoles shipped makes the PS3 look amazing, when in reality MS and Nintendo are just one big shipment away.

If Sony can exaggerate truths (and you claim you didn't say they exaggerate their numbers), what are the "truths" you're speaking of in this case?

The number, was never altered. I did not say, in any way, that Sony lied. Truths is refering to sales/shipments. Sony did ship 3.5 million PS3's, and an example of over exagerating truths would be if those 3.5 million shipped was to prepare for the holidays, where MS and Nintendo have not made their holiday shipments. Then PS3 looks amazing because it's shipped 700k more units then MS, but in reality, it's just shipped early, and comparing shipment figures to MS before they shipped for the holidays.

I am saying this is a possibility, so people should take this data with a grain of salt because we don't know exactly why PS3 shipments have jumped. There could be multiple reasons, not just Move.

Please, stop trying to find error in my claims. Read my post first before you want to critisize me, then maybe next time you will see there is nothing incorrect to critisize. If you have trouble understanding what I type, then ask, don't critisize first. You can learn more that way.



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bannedagain on 01 November 2010
Yuyyder said:

You know, I am sure that because of the TS's reason, Sony probably overshipped PS2 by over 50 million because of Christmas. But still taking that into account, Sony will have sold near to 100 million PS2.

But never mind, now I have found out this interesting fact. Listen. Sony has actually, GASP, been buying back the consoles to inflate the figures. In fact they bought 50 million of their own PS2. Thats how they win the game. Either that or they force a gun down retailers to order PS2 in huge numbers.

With some common sense, humility and for a fact, PS3 has been shipping more than X365 on a yearly basis ever since they launched.

In fact, Microsoft probably inflated the one year head start figure to make it sound like they had a head lead of 5.5 million over PS3. I am sure that figure is more like 550k only.

550,000k huh, You are just as bad as the article.  It's 3.9 million as of now with adjustments. I'm pretty sure that 550,000 is impossible by shipped numbers too.

I love how all of you are so quick to slam xbox 360, go back to n4g.