File this post under oversimplification, although at least partly valid.

I had wondered why conservatives generally make a big deal about immigration.  Oh, I do agree there is an issue, but I do believe the ranting will go far deeper.  The hatred over what is going on isn't taken out on powers that be that use illegals to make money, it focuses on the illegals themselves.  One can say there is racist overtone, and concern over a corrupting of their traditional values by allowing them in.  Well, I see this as not really getting why, when the economy is bad, the issues with illegals goes up.  Well, I think I have the real reason for the dislike.

Based on what I have seen in response in forums like this to people in need in general (including one post elsewhere, where someone told me I should kill myself so he didn't have to pay more taxes), I do believe there is a general assumption on the part of conservatives that, if things go bad, they can always at least find manual labor somewhere.  If things go bad with health, they always have an emergency room.  Well, illegal aliens are seen as a threat to both.  Illegals will take away labor of last resort for those who are conservative.  Also, since emergency rooms are seen as the health care system of last resort, too many illegals threaten to get them to close, if the are here. 

So, my take is this, the real reason for hatred and dislike for illegals, beyond "they broke the law" and they have different values (threaten English speaking) is that job and health care of last resort are threatened.  On the job front, the drive to making people have to be bilingual also is a threat, because the norm for Americans is only to speak English.

Well, that is my oversimplified take.  Now onto the thread for Libertarians.  I did one on charity and welfare for liberals.

dude are you drunk posting? :)

You think Conservatives feel they will get shafted in an Emergency Room if we have to many illegal aliens? Sorry, but that's not it. The only concern they have with respect to medical is cost.

The real problem they have with it, is conservatives don't like the federal government breaking the law on anything. To be the one in charge of enforcing something, anything, and then say "we don't like that law, so we will do nothing about it" pisses off people who want to live in a country of laws.

People who care about the rule of law tend to be conservatives.

A few things...

1. People do complain about the businesses that employ illegals. Here in Phoenix several stores have had raids. Basically they go in, look at the books and force them to fire all the illegals. We aren't allowed to employ illegal day laborers either.


2. When it comes to jobs, health care, and other services like food stamps. Illegals shouldn't be able to take advantage of those services like they do. Simple as that.


3. They are no real threat to English speaking, but if you're gonna live in America its not a bad idea to learn English. If I moved to Mexico, Japan, or some other country I would make an effort to learn the language commonly spoken.

When I worked in retail, sometimes spanish only speaking customers would actually give me crap for not speaking spanish. I got in arguments a few times because of so. Imagine that, an American being yelled at for only speaking English.

4. I won't argue about them threatening our values. But I will say Illegals come here by breaking laws we've set up. If they are gonna break laws to come here, you can't expect them to respect or abide by all our other laws.

For the record, I'm a liberal. Its not just conservitives that dislike the illegal immigrant situation. Its a vast majority of the country.

I think that the dislike "conservatives" have for illegal immigrants is that they are not lawfully entitled to the same privileges as citizens of the nation yet sometimes take advantage of what it has to offer.  It drives costs up for the citizens and people who have earned their place in society, yet people who were never supposed to be there in the first place are consuming (sometimes precious and limited) resources.  Yet at the same time, since no system is perfect and every society flawed, there are genuinely decent people within that same nation, who are citizens, yet are not entitled to the resources that some illegal immigrants consume.  Illegal immigration is thus frustrating to "conservatives", as they see the unfairness of it.  Myself, while I acknowledge it does cause problems, hope that whatever life these people manage for themselves is better than what it would have been had they not fled.  We all deserve to be treated like human beings, but only the elite get that treatment.  It's hard sometimes not to take what we have for granted.

I thought it was pretty simple. If a person comes to a country illegally they should be shipped back home.

Unless these people are fleeing persecution or an opressive government in their own country (and thus either can't leave legally or didn't have enough time) of course. I don't see why theres a controversy over this.

The truth is that conservatives are timid people.  Immigrants challenge their ability to compete for jobs, and conservatives would rather point elsewhere (cultural, social, legal, etc.) than have to contest them for economic prosperity.

Immigration is a necessary part of free trade, and you cant have your cake and eat it to.

I think wage depression is a part of it, but it's by no means the biggest part. Pretty much across the board in Western nations, the right tends to be more immigration restrictionist because they're culturally conservative. Mass immigration really doesn't give itself to assimilation. If you basically transplant a whole village of Somalians to Maine, what impetus is there really to assimilate? And, of course, when you have people marching in the street waving foreign flags and demanding things, it's going to cheese a lot of even not-so-conservative people off... whether or not the demonstrators are illegal. How popular are the militant Muslims who gather in the streets of London to chest-thump about how they're taking over?.

It's definitely an oversimplification, though. In the U.S., I see less anger directed at illegals themselves than at a government which increasingly seems to think it should control every single thing about the country except its borders.

there are laws for a reason, Illegal immigrants are by definition breaking the law, why pitty them? do you pitty the guy that raped your daughter? Do you pitty the pickpocket that stole your wallet? no

by being there they:

_have to work illegally -> no taxes which means basically stealing from the people of the country.

_ have to rely on people providing them housing, insurance.... illegally -> support of balck market and of various mafias.

_don't integrate as well because they have little access to regular institutions, often by fear as they are here illegaly.

_ Cost money in some countries (France) where we pay for the children's school, their health care... although they are not supposed to be there and don't pay taxes -> further steal from the people of the country.

what do they bring? nothing that legal immigrants don't.

Actually, illegal immigrants give a bad immage to regular immigrants. For example in my country, immigrants are often seen as not integrating and prone to be trouble makers.... why? because illigal immigrants don't integrate and their kids have no structure arround them and just go into gangs. The goal of the illegal immigrant in france is to come here and give birth on the land, as there is a birth right to french nationality, which gives the right to the familly to stay with the kid..... in essence if you want to migrate here just have a baby :p

I have nothing against immigration, i'm myself son of immigrants (legal ones).

Actually a lot of illegal aliens pay taxes.(In the US)  If you are an illegal alien and call the IRS they give you a secret identification number to pay taxes on your illegal wages.  A lot of people do this expecting it may lead to citizenship in the future.  Granted this just makes the whole Illegal immigration thing even more stupid and government sponsered and worth more hate, but it's a fun fact.  

As for me, I'm against Illegal immigration for a few reasons

A) It's illegal...

B) It stops legal immigration, because if this workforce was needed and couldn't get in illegally, then it would come in legally, and those people would then have more rights and be more likely to assimilate.  Which would be good.

C) Legal immigrants are more likely to speak english.  It serves nobody if the country can't speak 1 united language due to all kinds of issues with police, firefighters, medical staff and others.   I know people in the health industry who have legally immigrated here from other countries... speak 2-3 languages and can't get a job here because they don't speak spanish, because you NEED to speak spanish here because a lot of people don't speak english.

Hell, it's hard to work in a store and not speak spanish.

D)  Manipulative minium wage laws.   Ok sure, waiters don't make minimium wage because of tips.   People who work on farms don't make minium wage.... why?