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Forums - Sony Discussion - Has the Playstation Move's apparent success made people go crazy?

leo-j on 26 October 2010

kinda funny how someone posts pictures of there "UK" store, or a european market store, (and if it is UK, then...).

time for another prediction



 

mM
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FinalEvangelion on 26 October 2010
DirtyP2002 said:
Jordahn said:
DirtyP2002 said:
evolution_1ne said:

you posted a pic of move shipments at launch to try and justify Sony over shipping and or no shortages after it's been out for almost 2 months........ or am I missing something?


I had to go to university today and the Media Markt is just around the corner so I checked if there are any PS Move left.

I asked another employee and he told me this is still the first shipment. They reduced the price as you can see. It is 55 € now. It used to be 60€. (Check first pic) Not a big deal, but still far away from the reported shortages. This is a picture I took today. At first I thought I was wrong and they are sold out, but they just moved below the Xbox 360 section at the bottom as you can see. The PS Move demo is not displayed anymore. (Check the first pic, there is a guy playing PS Move) Instead there are turntables for the Xbox 360 version of DJ Hero 2.


Wrong again.  Most of us agree that the bundles are in stock.  But it's becoming quite common for the MOVE controller itself hard to find.

 

There are Move controllers as well. I just didn't make a picture.

When I posted the first picture: Ohh that is old, probably sold out already. There are shortages!

When I post the second picture: It is just the starter kit! Everything else is sold out.... except software, subcontrollers, charging stations and PS eye.


So the starter kit is available and the first shipment is not sold out. Small price cut happened though.


software is not sold, because it is not needed... there is a demo disc! That is why there is almost no game in the PAL charts at all.

What does it take to convince you that PS Move is not the blockbuster-out-of-the-gate-success like Sony wants to make it look like? I can post myself naked covered with move controllers and you guys would probably say those aren't real ones and I faked them in my basement.


Anecdotal evidence doesn't do too much.  I can say (which is true) that I went to Target, Best Buy, and WalMart and only Target had a couple single controllers in stock because they restocked this morning a few hours ago (employee told me).  Even SC was in low stock.

 

I guess this has to go through the 5 stages like the PS3 slim shortages did earlier this year.  We finally reached accpetance 2 weeks ago when the numbers were adjusted up.  The PS Move success is now in the denial stage for haters.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

Jordahn on 26 October 2010
DirtyP2002 said:
Jordahn said:
DirtyP2002 said:
evolution_1ne said:

you posted a pic of move shipments at launch to try and justify Sony over shipping and or no shortages after it's been out for almost 2 months........ or am I missing something?


I had to go to university today and the Media Markt is just around the corner so I checked if there are any PS Move left.

I asked another employee and he told me this is still the first shipment. They reduced the price as you can see. It is 55 € now. It used to be 60€. (Check first pic) Not a big deal, but still far away from the reported shortages. This is a picture I took today. At first I thought I was wrong and they are sold out, but they just moved below the Xbox 360 section at the bottom as you can see. The PS Move demo is not displayed anymore. (Check the first pic, there is a guy playing PS Move) Instead there are turntables for the Xbox 360 version of DJ Hero 2.


Wrong again.  Most of us agree that the bundles are in stock.  But it's becoming quite common for the MOVE controller itself hard to find.

 

There are Move controllers as well. I just didn't make a picture.

When I posted the first picture: Ohh that is old, probably sold out already. There are shortages!

When I post the second picture: It is just the starter kit! Everything else is sold out.... except software, subcontrollers, charging stations and PS eye.


So the starter kit is available and the first shipment is not sold out. Small price cut happened though.


software is not sold, because it is not needed... there is a demo disc! That is why there is almost no game in the PAL charts at all.

What does it take to convince you that PS Move is not the blockbuster-out-of-the-gate-success like Sony wants to make it look like? I can post myself naked covered with move controllers and you guys would probably say those aren't real ones and I faked them in my basement.


When did SONY ever said MOVE was going to be a "blockbuster-out-of-the-gate-success?"  Or did you lie to yourself to get yourself worked up over nothing?  Not healthy.



Hackers are poor nerds who don't wash.

Squilliam on 26 October 2010
thismeintiel said:
Squilliam said:

Its the way they work. When Microsoft 'ships' most of their products, an OEM just installs a copy into one extra machine or a tech does it in a large enterprise. They don't actually move product. Also when they did Windows 7 pre-orders they booked that already recieved monies to the quarter of release. So shipments for them tend to be more fulfilled orders which is why the PS3 / Xbox 360 shipment discrepency relative to each other exists.

This may affect how they report sales of their SW, but how does that affect how they report sales of the 360, a tangible object?  They both (at least I know for Sony) are reporting sales to retailers.  So how does MS's method of reporting HW sales to retailers make it more in line with what retailers/customers are buying?


Microsoft shipments are effectively fulfilled orders, I.E. when they channel stuff the retailers already have their product and Sony shipments are further back though im not sure whether its orders recieved, shipments sent, shipments to warehouses or from warehouses based on orders. Essentially Microsoft is more in line with the retail reality.



Tease.

kafar on 26 October 2010

haters are haters. i don't care if they go crazy. all i care is that i love my MOVE. it was a great purchase. people that are trying so hard to believe MOVE is a flop should try the controller themselves.



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MARCUSDJACKSON on 26 October 2010
greenmedic88 said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

1. be ready to make a thread like this next gen! or next wk?

2. biasness: thats all it is. the console wars is with the gamer not the console manufacture, so hince the war is in the gamers head and not the battle feild?

3. again biasness.

4. the most overlooked statement made so far. an annoucment already made thats being ignored.

5. in gamers eyes that are against move and Sony, it won't matter wht move sells it will still be a failure, and thats sad when we have bigger problems in this industry like that law in California. i would urge gamers to stop there hatred for the console not of there choice and fight for art and the right to game.

6. great thread. look forward to doing this when kinect releases!

It'll be same thing second verse, could be better but it's gonna get worse.


something else we agree on



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Icyedge on 26 October 2010
starcraft said:
steverhcp02 said:
starcraft said:
Carl2291 said:
starcraft said:

My perception of their expectations?  A substantial shift in the public perception surrounding the PS3.  In the way people want to play games.  A sizeable and sustained increase in sales.

Certainly not the lacklustre sell through we've seen evidence of.

Move has clearly not been a major flop.  But to call it a "success" is an equivelant stretch, unless you truly believe that Son'y ONLY goal with Move was to literally break even on the hardware.

Right. Just want to say something.

The week before PS Move launched, PS3 sold 131k units Worldwide.

The week of PS Move (I say week, I mean 2 days on sale), the PS3 sold  170k units worldwide.

The following week (The first full week of PS Move), the PS3 sold 183k units worldwide.

The PS3 has outsold the Wii every week since PS Move launched, by 20k or more units, and hasn't dropped below 155k units WW... Without a Japan Move launch, which will be in this weeks data I think.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure Sony are happy with it having sold 2.5 Million units to retailers within a Month despite it being a "slow burner". And I'm pretty sure Sony fans are happy with it judging from comments in the WW Up threads.

Why on Earth is the Wii a standard bearer for success at this point?

The Xbox 360 has been beating it out of routine.  Taken from that perspective, Move has been out a few weeks and still hasn't led to the PS3 defeating Xbox 360, despite the products apparent strong region being Europe  (the Xbox 360's less strong region).

I haven't said at any point in this thread that the Move was a failure.  Did it do as well as Sony hoped it would?  Of course not.  If a tonne of advertising (in my country at least), a massive proportion of their major events time and budget, dozens of games and an emphasis that their flagship titles will utilize Move isn't an enormous amount of hype, then Sony has never utilized an enormous amount of hype for anything.

There seems to be a systematic notion of resistance in many posters in this thread (I am referring to others here Carl, rather than you) to the concept that Move was anything other than a resounding success, when there is clear evidence that it was not.


you mean like the hardware boost that coincided with Moves release? and has elevated the bottomline weekly average 30k?

You keep repeating yourself saying "ZOMG i saw commercials...for a product.....they expect it to sell!!!!!" Well no shit. Companies make commercials. 

Ya know what i cant even start this, i cant fathom how you come to your reasoning.

You blatantly misquote me, ignore the SUBSTANTIAL evidence that Sony overshipped significantly and then (as the thread creator pointed out) misled us about their sales and yet it is me that has unfathomable reasoning?

Here is a simple picture, and I will paint our relative points within it:

1. Complete and utter resounding success by any and all standards.

2. Did ok, didn't set the world alight, didn't perform in line with it's very large amount of hype.

3. Failed.

 

Now I would be number two, and you would be number one.  As I pointed out with a previous post, a number of people, beginning with the thread creator, seem to be afraid of the notion that Move was anything other than Sony's second coming.

Sadly, it simply isn't the case.  Which is not to say that it failed at all.  In direct answer to the OP's title though, it would indeed appear that the perspective of some people has indeed been skewed by Move not meeting their aspiring hopes and dreams.

First of all you need to go and read the definition of "hype". Second, where is the reasonable option:

Did ok, didn't set the world alight, didn't perform in line with it's very large amount of hype.

 

On another note, I remember reading that you thought it didnt perform as well as Sony wanted. You know Sony PR themselves said they didnt expected Move to have a massive opening:

"exactly as with EyeToy in the PS2 days, it's a product that needs to be sampled. You need to get your hands on it. You need to understand it. You need to try it." Maguire further went on to say he's "not particularly" expecting "massive" day one sales, but that he expects sales to grow as word of mouth spreads.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/26/sony-execs-talk-playstation-move-expectations-ps4-details/



Icyedge on 26 October 2010
DirtyP2002 said:
jneul said:
slowmo said:

Thats rather rude, you accused him of trolling and he has offered to provide evidence to the contrary.  Just because you don't like the information he is providing doesn't make it ok to accuse him of being "sad".  Did he go into your Kinect bashing threads and call you sad for posting the information?


It was rude but it serves him right for stalking me constantly on n4g, posting on picture of 100 moves proves nothing, and even if he took a picture with lots of moves in it every day it still does not prove anything, he would have to go to every store in the world to prove that indeed yes move is absoultely not selling out everywhere, which btw is impossible

maybe he did not call me sad, but maybe to some i am as far as the "kinect bashing" threads go, i am staying away from kinect threads at the moment


1st: I never said worldwide. I said there are no shortages in Germany.

2nd: wow you are so kind.

3rd: to prove my point check the latest PAL Charts:

Netherlands: No move game in the top10
Norway: No.7 for Sports Champion, no other move compatible game (including MAG, RE5 and Heavy Rain) in the top20
Sweden: No. 12 for Sports Champion, no other move compatible game in the top 20 and not in the top10 on PS3 alone either
Swiss: Sports Champion at No.9 on PS3 only chart
UK: Sports Champion at No. 28 on UK Chart, not any other move-compatible game in the top 40.

I don't know about you, but that does not sound like a device that is doing amazingly hot. It sells decent, it might turn a profit for Sony, but it will never ever be a game changer in any way. With 1.5 million in 4 weeks (more than Halo Reach, which still sits in these charts for some strange reasons), you should expect at least some games in the top10 / 20 / 40 in any region. But except for Sports Champion, there is nothing at all.

I just remain sceptical.

Based on Move games type, the fact some users already have Move ready game and/or PSN Move games, its highly possible the majority of Move users didnt purchase more then 1 retail title yet. Split the userbase between Move ready games and it shouldnt come as a surprise most titles cannot be part of a top 20 or 40 wheter the userbase is 600 K or 1 million.



Icyedge on 26 October 2010
Squilliam said:
Bokal said:
Squilliam said:

The total number of Move only software titles sold is the only metric which counts. It is the only metric by which developers will use to justify further support over the longer term of 1-3 years and it is the only metric which is directly comparable to other platforms.


Why "Move only" software? If I buy the move now, it would be for Heavy rain, MAG, RUSE or RE5, not for Sports Champions. And the next ones that makes me intersted in it is Socom and Killzone, so all DS3 or Move games. And I'm certainly not the only one like that.

So? how is "Move only" software a metric of anything?

Buying Move only software is the only way you'll get Move games built from the ground up to support the platform. At the moment it is Move tack-ons and cheap minigames.

The reason Move only is a software metric is because it is the only software which will definitively tell us the size of the overall userbase.

Software sales cannot be use as a metric to calculate userbase, at least not in this case. Some userbase may purchase 2 games per month on average while others will purchase only 1. Just look at Wii userbase/software sold VS xbox userbase/software sold.



thismeintiel on 26 October 2010
Squilliam said:
thismeintiel said:
Squilliam said:

Its the way they work. When Microsoft 'ships' most of their products, an OEM just installs a copy into one extra machine or a tech does it in a large enterprise. They don't actually move product. Also when they did Windows 7 pre-orders they booked that already recieved monies to the quarter of release. So shipments for them tend to be more fulfilled orders which is why the PS3 / Xbox 360 shipment discrepency relative to each other exists.

This may affect how they report sales of their SW, but how does that affect how they report sales of the 360, a tangible object?  They both (at least I know for Sony) are reporting sales to retailers.  So how does MS's method of reporting HW sales to retailers make it more in line with what retailers/customers are buying?


Microsoft shipments are effectively fulfilled orders, I.E. when they channel stuff the retailers already have their product and Sony shipments are further back though im not sure whether its orders recieved, shipments sent, shipments to warehouses or from warehouses based on orders. Essentially Microsoft is more in line with the retail reality.

Do you actually have a link that proves that MS only counts it as a sale when a product arrives at the store?  Because I really doubt that.  Most likely, as with most companies, it is either when they get the order in or when they actually ship off the product to retailers.  I know for a fact that Sony changed its reporting methods in '06/'07 from counting units sold as units shipped from factories to their warehouses, to "recorded sales."  Now, I don't know if that means when a retailer puts an order in or when they actually ship it to the retailer.  Either way, it's a definite sale to retailer.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/07q2_sony.pdf

The info for their new method of reporting is found on page 4, under Game.