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Forums - General Discussion - Belief in God produces Hell on Earth

Oh geez, numonex.

 

Please, for me, list the Presidents that were killed by Christian fundamentalists for religious reasons. I'd love to hear them. (all four!)



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

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flagship said:

Great idea! Without religion people revert back to killing each other for far more meaningful things, like: land, money power and women.

 

Ah, but we never stopped killing each other for those reasons.  It's just that people started diguising those reasons with a veil of religion to make their wars seem just.  Oh, and it gives people the want to hate religion, regardless of whether there is a real reason or not.



outlawauron said:

Oh geez, numonex.

 

Please, for me, list the Presidents that were killed by Christian fundamentalists for religious reasons. I'd love to hear them. (all four!)

Here is my opinion/view/belief on linking religious fundamentalists and the assassinations of the US Presidents.

Four Presidents assassinated: Abraham Lincoln(1865), James Garfield(1881), William McKinley(1901) and JFK(1963) were all assassinated by Christian fundamentalists who opposed the Presidents religious/political views.. Religious fundamentalist assassins believed they were  instructed by God, opposed the President of the day and killed the President in cold blood.  Religion and politics are closely linked in neo-conservative America. Two sides of religious  fundamentalists: Protestants (Republicans) and Catholics (Democrats) share different political/religious views on most aspects of society. 

The Presidents were all killed by  religious fundamentalist nut cases who believed they were instructed by God to carry out their acts. Religion fundamentalists and paranoid schizophrenia  share similar traits. Religion fundamentalists have been linked to assassinations and terrorist plots through out the world there is evidence to support this notion. 

In 1981 Ronald Reagan narrowly escaped death from an assassin's bullet. Once again the political/religious views of the assassin made him believe he was on a mission from God to get rid of the President. Terrorism is linked to religious fundamentalism. 

Religion should never be used to justify murder. Religion promotes peace but it often  leads to war and conflicts. In America: some defendants  use the Devil/Satan made me do it as a legal defense. Similar to the dog hate my homework excuse. 



thismeintiel said:
flagship said:

Great idea! Without religion people revert back to killing each other for far more meaningful things, like: land, money power and women.

 

Ah, but we never stopped killing each other for those reasons.  It's just that people started diguising those reasons with a veil of religion to make their wars seem just.  Oh, and it gives people the want to hate religion, regardless of whether there is a real reason or not.

There's a difference between "hating" religion and classifying religion as a perversion of the human mind. I don't hate religious people, I just think they're wrong ;P



I survived the Apocalyps3

numonex said:
outlawauron said:

Oh geez, numonex.

 

Please, for me, list the Presidents that were killed by Christian fundamentalists for religious reasons. I'd love to hear them. (all four!)

Here is my opinion/view/belief on linking religious fundamentalists and the assassinations of the US Presidents.

Four Presidents assassinated: Abraham Lincoln(1865), James Garfield(1881), William McKinley(1901) and JFK(1963) were all assassinated by Christian fundamentalists who opposed the Presidents religious/political views.. Religious fundamentalist assassins believed they were  instructed by God, opposed the President of the day and killed the President in cold blood.  Religion and politics are closely linked in neo-conservative America. Two sides of religious  fundamentalists: Protestants (Republicans) and Catholics (Democrats) share different political/religious views on most aspects of society. 

The Presidents were all killed by  religious fundamentalist nut cases who believed they were instructed by God to carry out their acts. Religion fundamentalists and paranoid schizophrenia  share similar traits. Religion fundamentalists have been linked to assassinations and terrorist plots through out the world there is evidence to support this notion. 

In 1981 Ronald Reagan narrowly escaped death from an assassin's death. Once again the political/religious views of the assassin made him believe he was on a mission from God to get rid of the President.


Haha wow good conspiracy theories. What else UFO's in area 51, moon landing was faked, and the US governement planned the 9/11 attacks?



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raptors11 said:
numonex said:
outlawauron said:

Oh geez, numonex.

 

Please, for me, list the Presidents that were killed by Christian fundamentalists for religious reasons. I'd love to hear them. (all four!)

Here is my opinion/view/belief on linking religious fundamentalists and the assassinations of the US Presidents.

Four Presidents assassinated: Abraham Lincoln(1865), James Garfield(1881), William McKinley(1901) and JFK(1963) were all assassinated by Christian fundamentalists who opposed the Presidents religious/political views.. Religious fundamentalist assassins believed they were  instructed by God, opposed the President of the day and killed the President in cold blood.  Religion and politics are closely linked in neo-conservative America. Two sides of religious  fundamentalists: Protestants (Republicans) and Catholics (Democrats) share different political/religious views on most aspects of society. 

The Presidents were all killed by  religious fundamentalist nut cases who believed they were instructed by God to carry out their acts. Religion fundamentalists and paranoid schizophrenia  share similar traits. Religion fundamentalists have been linked to assassinations and terrorist plots through out the world there is evidence to support this notion. 

In 1981 Ronald Reagan narrowly escaped death from an assassin's death. Once again the political/religious views of the assassin made him believe he was on a mission from God to get rid of the President.


Haha wow good conspiracy theories. What else UFO's in area 51, moon landing was faked, and the US governement planned the 9/11 attacks?

I can provide links from Google searches as evidence to support my claims. Alex Jones, David Icke and Jordan Maxwell and others are revisionist historians/journalists: they do not like to be regarded as conspiracy theorists. 

Revisionist historian is a much better title and gives credibility. Science and logic can be used to explain every single event that happens in the world from a different point of view.  If all the evidence is not available, you can give a view on what were the possible motivations behind that event. There are more than one side of a story/event. 

When all the pieces of the puzzle are not available: more questions are left unanswered. 



kowhoho said:
gergroy said:
mrstickball said:

So what about Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot?

Ideologies which have large power bases are the problem, not religions per-se. Look at those that were not religious that held great sway in politics - Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, and many others did some dastardly things, none of which were in the name of any god, but in the name of their political ideologies. I'd venture to say that those four combined killed more men and women than any person has in the name of religion.

One could list many of the beliefs of secularists over the past century or two, and come to the conclusion there is a lot of evil in any ideology if it is used to undermine those that they believe are societal ills.

On the other end, I could cite all the great things Christians have done for humanity. It has been a major force for hospitals, food banks, poverty relief, and humanitarian aid over the centuries.

In the end, power breeds corruption and abuse. The more power an ideology has over free thinking people, the more damage it can cause, as it will hurt the minorities that do not adhere to the majority view. This is expecially true when the ideology devalues the life of humans, which has been the case with some ideologies.

This pretty much sums up how I feel.  Religion on its own is not bad.  It is actually a very good thing, teaching people morals and to treat one another with respect and dignity.  It's people that can be corrupted and can use bits and pieces of an ideology to help fuel an agenda.  

Not saying that religious persecution doesn't happen, because it does.  Myself being a Mormon I'm well aware that religions are persecuted by people of other religions.  However, I don't really blame other religions for the persecution, I blame the people that do it.  

I don't think it's ever really a good idea to "teach" morals. What one considers common sense may seem ludicrous to someone else. In cases of childhood indoctrination, a child leads the same spiritual and political life as their parents. "I'm a Christian and I vote republican because my parents do." And no, that isn't hyperbole. I've heard people in my school say those exact words when prompted.

Teach a child logic and they can come to their own conclusion. We can learn morality simply by observing the interactions between people in our lives and the consequences of our actions.

I honestly don't think there could ever be a problem with teaching morals.   Almost every child story has a moral that it teaches.  Should we not read those to our kids?  Seems like a silly thing to say. 

As far as the indoctrination, that could be true up until they become adults and think for themselves.  Honestly, as a kid I would have probably said the same thing, but I'm grown up now, I don't believe or do the same things as parents because I'm a big boy, I can think for myself.  For example, they vote Republican, I vote Democrat (which in Utah is a big difference).  



The Anarchyz said:

Hitler, Stallin, Mao, etc., people always bring them up to favor religion, but those people were religious leaders, religion is not exclusive to the ancient writings and old beliefs of things people like me call myths, religion covers all beliefs used to control people, even the modern ones, Hitler was a God to a lot of germans, so was Stallin to soviets and Kim-Jong-il to north koreans, once i heard that there was a belief among many north koreans that Kim has the power to control the weather based on his mood, if that's not religious belief, i don't know what is...

Religion was invented by men, the ancient and modern books, the temples, churches, mosques, propagandas, celebrity centers, all by men. And men sometimes have a good agenda, and sometimes they don't, (hell, sometimes they have mixed agendas) the problem is to follow blindly everything the religious leaders say without thinking rationally about it ...

Religion and political ideologies are more or less the same religious fundamentalist clap trap. Voting and religion is a complete waste of time.  Religion and politics creates more problems that are never fully resolved. Religion is used to formulate a lot of political policy making decisions and they come hand in hand. Separating religion and politics is impossible. Politics is based on religious doctrine that must be followed by believers. 



I started reading numonex, but had to stop. As someone who has read a lot of John Wilkes Booth journal, taken numerous American history courses, and read several books on the subject. Abraham Lincoln's assasination had nothing to do with religion. I don't even see how he could possibly to linked to anything of the sort. (I'm not condoning the acts in case anyone tries to bring that up).



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.

ProdigyBam said:

Religion(s) = islam?

not all religions are the same, most wars had been fought because of the islam, just saying..

 

"Allah:"
"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who
disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads
and strike off every fingertip of them." 

(Qur'an 8:12)

Muhammad:
"
Fight everyone in the way of Allah and
kill those who disbelieve in Allah." 
(Ibn Ishaq 992)

Jesus:
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 5:14)

 

;)

 

it is kinda funny when you rant on Islam when you know nothing about it. i have studied  it for years and almost every thing fits. and in this forum war because of religion seems to be the most important subject so here is the truth that you didnt understand in the quotes you always bring from the Quran: more than a thousand years ago every thing was connected to WAR. Food wealth you name it.... So the only was for Islam to prove itself against an other nation was War but they didnt attack any individuals, even that the prophet lived with and talked people who  were not muslims and didnt even impose Islam to them and stoped his followers who tried to do so or even harm them . But now it is different This is the time of peace (or it should be). The religion involved over the time so there should be no war and it can ONLY prove itself through the things this time is know for; knowledge. as you have seen from those ignorant terrorists who simply kill people without even talking to them. it is because they are still living in the darkages and werent brought up well in harsh places with anger against people who lived a better life and studied by the hands close-minded people who imposed false information about something they dont understand that should be good. 

 

there is nothing wrong with my religion. It brought be peace of mind and made me an open minded person. I was a secular person because i thought that it was boring and hated it for that before i even learned about other reason people hated it for. The only wrong thing here is living in the past and the very thought that every idiot who pretends that he belongs to a group is representing them. dont focus on religion being bad for you just focus on how to bring happiness to yourself and others by focusing how the problem is solved and not complaning and posting blame.  read