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Forums - Gaming Discussion - "Embarassing" Kinect Interview

Alby_da_Wolf on 16 October 2010
unknown_soul89 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Kinect will be a strong "casual" device, but the more we know about its strenghts and weaknesses, the more likely it becomes that it will leave the "hardcore" motion market, whatever its size is, whole and undivided to Sony PS Move. Maybe Sony suddenly realized it and this could be the reason why it suddenly looks more persuaded of Move's chances.

I don't see how kinect can succeed as a causal device either, wii pretty much has that market cornered and MS doesn't have anything besides a cheap gimmick that makes the actual games not work well and is incredibly awkward 

Success can mean, on a smaller scale, decent sales. It can work well on a subset of sports, dance and fitness games. This could make it a competitor for Wii Balance Board. But Wii BB is an add-on that COMPLETES the Wii's motion control system, while Kinect is the only XB motion control, and it isn't a complete, general purpose controller, so it cannot really beat Wii, just be a decent runner up if it concentrates on doing well what it can really do.



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unknown_soul89 on 16 October 2010
Alby_da_Wolf said:
unknown_soul89 said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:

Kinect will be a strong "casual" device, but the more we know about its strenghts and weaknesses, the more likely it becomes that it will leave the "hardcore" motion market, whatever its size is, whole and undivided to Sony PS Move. Maybe Sony suddenly realized it and this could be the reason why it suddenly looks more persuaded of Move's chances.

I don't see how kinect can succeed as a causal device either, wii pretty much has that market cornered and MS doesn't have anything besides a cheap gimmick that makes the actual games not work well and is incredibly awkward 

Success can mean, on a smaller scale, decent sales. It can work well on a subset of sports, dance and fitness games. This could make it a competitor for Wii Balance Board. But Wii BB is an add-on that COMPLETES the Wii's motion control system, while Kinect is the only XB motion control, and it isn't a complete, general purpose controller, so it cannot really beat Wii, just be a decent runner up if it concentrates on doing well what it can really do.

Yea I still don't see it being a contender, even if you limit the field to fitness and dance "games", the wii is cheaper and more versatile, I can't see a single women buying a wii or kinect for a fitness game, and every mother is going to tell herself she's getting it mostly for the kids when she's getting a wii, so the balance board add on is more justifiable purchase in the mind of the people that would actually be interested in those games, kinects only real audience the the longterm girlfriends of 360 owners and people who still believe it will deliver what it promised 



theprof00 on 16 October 2010
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Severance said:

Why do they always have more than one person playing Dance Central? isn't it single player?

It's two players.  It can track the movements of 2 people to keep score, but all the demos had several MTV dancers join you on stage to make it seem like a much bigger party, and to pump everybody up.


Are there any videos of it showing split screen?

Also, I disagree about making it seem like a much bigger party. Well, I disagree in tone only. 

They did it to advertise falsely, which coincides exactly with the entire e3 kinect campaign, and pretty much everytime they show actors' choreographed 'playing' of the games.

Being dramatic is completely different from misrepresenting your product.

It's like that video they showed last year with the kid being a dinosaur, or the kung-fu game. You're selling a product that doesn't exist. Sure, Sony asked people to 'pay for potential' but at least those potential games were games that were actually being made.

I would liken the entire kinect campaign to a commercial for ps3 in which Halo:Reach, starcraft 2, and videos of actual sports teams playing were used in a video collage to show off 'things ps3 is capable of".



Simulacrum on 16 October 2010

Epic.



 

 

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makingmusic476 on 16 October 2010
theprof00 said:
The Ghost of RubangB said:
Severance said:

Why do they always have more than one person playing Dance Central? isn't it single player?

It's two players.  It can track the movements of 2 people to keep score, but all the demos had several MTV dancers join you on stage to make it seem like a much bigger party, and to pump everybody up.


Are there any videos of it showing split screen?

Also, I disagree about making it seem like a much bigger party. Well, I disagree in tone only. 

They did it to advertise falsely, which coincides exactly with the entire e3 kinect campaign, and pretty much everytime they show actors' choreographed 'playing' of the games.

Being dramatic is completely different from misrepresenting your product.

It's like that video they showed last year with the kid being a dinosaur, or the kung-fu game. You're selling a product that doesn't exist. Sure, Sony asked people to 'pay for potential' but at least those potential games were games that were actually being made.

I would liken the entire kinect campaign to a commercial for ps3 in which Halo:Reach, starcraft 2, and videos of actual sports teams playing were used in a video collage to show off 'things ps3 is capable of".

There is a 2player "face off" mode within the game, but I don't believe it is splitscreen.  I think one person plays through a song, then the other person plays through it to challenge them, with some special quirks thrown in.



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daroamer on 17 October 2010
Reasonable said:
thranx said:
Reasonable said:
daroamer said:
thismeintiel said:
Severance said:

Why do they always have more than one person playing Dance Central? isn't it single player?

I believe so.  I guess they want to make it look like a multiplayer game, so it looks more fun?  I know a lot of people were saying Dance Central is going to be the real game to hook people because of its unique tracking method, but there's a game coming out for the PS3 that does full body tracking, as well.  It's a fitness game called Get Fit With Mel B.  It made me wonder if Dance Central does go multi-plat, would Harmonix be able to pull off the exact same game just using the PS Eye.


If Harmonix had been able to do it with the PS Eye they would have already.  You think they WANT to keep it exclusive?  They've stated plenty of times in videos that they wanted to do a dance game for a while but the tech didn't exist yet to do what they wanted to do....and they had already made games for the Eye Toy so they know what they're talking about.  They have indicated they might do versions for the PS3 and Wii but it would only be tracking the hands.

The Mel B game doesn't do what you think it does.  EA Sports Active 2 has stuff that is exclusive to Kinect because the developers said it wasn't possible to track those exercises on the other systems, things like push ups.

Dance Central is 1 player at a time however you have a box on the right side that is showing the full depth map image so it can show 3 people dancing, the main player and 2 "backup" dancers, I've played it while my girlfriend was dancing and I could see what I was doing in the window as a backup dancer, only she was getting scored though.  They DO however have some PVP and co-op mulitplayer modes where the players switch out during the song.


I thought Harmonix already said Dance Central could come to PS3?

http://www.vg247.com/2010/06/23/dance-central-could-eventually-come-to-ps3-says-harmonix/

Clearly Kinect seems better input, but they seem confident it could be done.  And looking at the videos so far I'd be surprised if it couldn't.

I'm pretty sure MS will agree at least a timed exclusive on it, as it's far and away the most intersting title for Kinect I've seen and seems to get the most positive response.  But I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't turn up on PS3 later in some form.

In the article it says they are looking at using move to do it. Sounds like that would be quite diffrent from the kinect version which has no controller.
 Why do you think the ps eye can do dance central? what videos are you looking at? Dance central is one of the games I have seen that seems to exclusivly use the infra red cam of which the ps eye does not have.

I didn't mention the Eye, simply that Harminox have said they could deliver the title on PS3 and that from the videos I've seen there doesn't seem to be much use of depth vs how you are moving as a sillhouete, which the Eye could probably deliver through image recognition of how you are moving vs a pre-defined sillouete of what the game expects you to move like.  I haven't seen that many videos, though, nor anything describing in detail whether much depth info is being used or not.

I'm not really trying to guess how they'd do it though, so much as noting the developer has very publicily and clearly stated they could do it - and as they have no reason to lie I'm taking their word as good.  The context of their comments implies that they'll bring some form of the title to PS3 at some point, which would make sense if they can technically do it as it simply means more sales for them and they're third party so why not?

Since you're taking them at their word, they have actually said the exact opposite of what you're saying.  Reading a sillhouette won't work for many of the moves in the game, there are plenty of times your hands are in front of your body. 

The Eye has been out long enough that if it were possible they would have done it already.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/puzzle/dancecentral/video/6281465/dance-central-choreography-feature

Here is the quote from the video pretty much verbatim:

"We knew someday we had to make a dance game but we just didn't want to do it until the technology was right and all of our games (have a) sort of authenticity streak to them that's super important to us.  To make sure that what people are experiencing is as close to the real thing as possible.  So you see that really coming to fruition with Rock Band 3 and so we knew that when we made a dance game you had to be doing real dancing, not just posing or moving your feet around or anything like that, it had to be real dancing. 

So we looked around to see if there was any technology that let us do it and there wasn't.  So we just sort of sat on it we were working on Rock Band and that sort of stuff and then Microsoft showed us Kinect and that was when we really realized there was a piece of technology out there that would allow us to do the kind of experience that we wanted to do."

They also never said they were definitely doing a PS3 version, just that they were looking into it.



makingmusic476 on 17 October 2010
daroamer said:
Reasonable said:

I didn't mention the Eye, simply that Harminox have said they could deliver the title on PS3 and that from the videos I've seen there doesn't seem to be much use of depth vs how you are moving as a sillhouete, which the Eye could probably deliver through image recognition of how you are moving vs a pre-defined sillouete of what the game expects you to move like.  I haven't seen that many videos, though, nor anything describing in detail whether much depth info is being used or not.

I'm not really trying to guess how they'd do it though, so much as noting the developer has very publicily and clearly stated they could do it - and as they have no reason to lie I'm taking their word as good.  The context of their comments implies that they'll bring some form of the title to PS3 at some point, which would make sense if they can technically do it as it simply means more sales for them and they're third party so why not?

Since you're taking them at their word, they have actually said the exact opposite of what you're saying.  Reading a sillhouette won't work for many of the moves in the game, there are plenty of times your hands are in front of your body. 

The Eye has been out long enough that if it were possible they would have done it already.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/puzzle/dancecentral/video/6281465/dance-central-choreography-feature

Here is the quote from the video pretty much verbatim:

"We knew someday we had to make a dance game but we just didn't want to do it until the technology was right and all of our games (have a) sort of authenticity streak to them that's super important to us.  To make sure that what people are experiencing is as close to the real thing as possible.  So you see that really coming to fruition with Rock Band 3 and so we knew that when we made a dance game you had to be doing real dancing, not just posing or moving your feet around or anything like that, it had to be real dancing. 

So we looked around to see if there was any technology that let us do it and there wasn't.  So we just sort of sat on it we were working on Rock Band and that sort of stuff and then Microsoft showed us Kinect and that was when we really realized there was a piece of technology out there that would allow us to do the kind of experience that we wanted to do."

They also never said they were definitely doing a PS3 version, just that they were looking into it.

They stated that the concept is probably possible on ps3.

I think the issue is that they needed technology able to track objects in 3D space.  Kinect can track your arms while the PS Eye can track the Move controller.  This is the technology they were waiting for.

From Kotaku:

"Rigopulos said that the team is looking into the possibility of bringing Dance Central to the Playstation 3 with the help of Move. We think it's possible, he said.

The Wii? Not a chance, he said. It's motion tracking doesn't collect enough data and track things in a way that could translate into the sort of dance game that Harmonix would want to make."