I'm merely using diversity as others used it, I don't like the term much myself, but others said Nintendo needed diversity in terms of the 3D games, I think it was republic who said it perhaps, so I just used it when replying to those people.

My point is that Nintendo , doesn't need to bother with 3D style gameplay that doesn't add value, like Galaxy, Zelda, Metroid (games like Wii sports/Wii fit, while 3D do add value so those are fine), but for the most part, that they should focus on 2D style games, like NSMB and oher old school games, in line with the types of games that were available on the NES and to a slightly lesser degree the SNES, and GB/GBA/DS, for the sake of pushing hardware, and keeping momentum.  That 3D games like Galaxy, Other M, Skyward, are a waste, and those genres of games should be left to third parties if someone wants to make them

It's diversity in terms of genre, of which 2D vs 3D is only a single aspect.

2D does not equate to success, nor does 3D equate to failure. Your assertion is inherently fallacious.

Mario Kart is 3D, for one. So are the Wii X games.

That's incorrect,  I'm pointing to actual sales figures, both of games and of consoles, 3D games (well 3D games like Galaxy, Other M and Zelda, as I pointed out some 3D games like Wii sports are huge successes) do tend to equal failure, so saying that its fallacious, is fallacious in itself, since the facts of the matter prove that they are failures, even when they sell ok, they fail to push hardware, now a lot of 2D games have been shown to push hardware, so I'm saying focus on those games that push hardware, old school games, and expanded games, and leave the 3D games, like galaxy behind.

I never disagreed that there shouldn't be more than one genre, but you need to focus on the genres that actually push hardware and keep momentum, genres that do neither should be left to third parties

If you read my posts, I did mention Wii Sports and Wii fit as example of successful 3D games that should be pursued, but those actually push consoles and keep momentum, but games like Galaxy do not, so there is a difference

You talk about sales figures withotu actually citing any and without giving qualifications for any of htem, particularly qualifying what constitutes "failure".

The only game which you refer to which couldh ave reasonably been expected to move hardware would have been Mario Galaxy and (possibly) Twilight Princess - you point out, rightly, that neither of these games coincided with a marked uptick in Wii system sale.s But that's a fallacious point in and of itself. Don't you remember? SMG released in 2007, back when the Wii was sitll selling out every week. Causing a trackable uptick in adoption wouldn't have been possible for any game, including NSMBWii, when the system was already selling out. The context in which you are citing these numebrs is already wrong.

Name theg ames in 2-D that have been shown to push hardware on the Wii. I believe you can name.... one. When it comes to 3-D games that can move hardware, I can name at least five (Mario Kart, Wii Sports, Resort, Fit, Plus, Play, and yes, even Galaxy).

You have not qualified any of hte games you're referring to as failures - but don't bother with Other M, I agree that it is a failure. It should be mentioned though that it was not a failure as a hardware mover, because it was never intended to move hardware.

Again, yoru assertions so far are not grounded in reality. Cite games. Cite sale figures. Weh ave a tab right up there - it's "VGChartz" - where you can grab all the figrues you need.

I can point to other games from the GCN and N64 era if you;d like, heck I can point to those whole eras as evidence, what would you like to see?  Tell me what sales figures you want.

Galaxy two proves this second argument false, where was the uptick from galaxy 2, also lets compare Galaxy one or two to NSMB, NSMB ignited sales during last holiday, are you really going to try and argue that my point is wrong?  Lets also go back to the  GCN eras and look at  Mario sunshine and compare to NSMB for console selling power if you don't like Galaxy, why didn't  GCN experience the boosts from Mario?  So Galaxy no, didn't push any hardware, if you really want to argue that, I suggest you look at GCN and Sunshine.

As for the Wii games and Kart, I never disagreed those push hardware, from the beginning I said those were fine, so you're arguing a non-issue, since I never said Nintendo should abandon those games, not once, but as I pointed out earlier those are expanded audience games, I'm not detracting those genres, I agree those genres should be covred by Nintendo, so you're arguing a different issue than what I said altogether. Since I already said from the beginning that those games are fine, go read my earlier posts, those aren't the games that I think should not be in 3D.  Since the beginning, my point has been about the core games, read my earlier posts, games like galaxy, Zelda and Metorid and the like.

  Saying that other M wasn't intended to move consoles is ridiculous, and proves it was a waste, also I don;t think Nintendo ever says lets make games no one will buy and that won;t move systems, that would be stupid, I'm certai nteh wanted it to sell big, but it didn't

Referring to less successful hardware generations as indicative of current trends and varied software environments is fallacious. Try pointing to the Playstation and the Playstation 2, instead.

Galaxy 2 isn't proper as a hardware mover in that it was a sequel and doesn't appeal to more people that the original didn't already appeal to. Try again.

Galaxy was selling during a time that the Wii was already sold out. If you released NSMBWii during that season, it would have had exactly as much effect as Galaxy did. Yes, your comparison - and your point - is verifiably, objectively, completely wrong.

You have given no evidence for Zelda being better in 2D or anything of the sort; do you posit that the series should simply be abandoned?

Let me make sure I'm getting this straight. I know I am, but I'm going to ask you a series of questions. THis is the first, and if you can, keep your answer down to either yes or no:

Do you posit that Nintendo should abandon all games and series that are not "proven hardware movers", which coincide with sustained increased sales?

I'm going to bed. I expect a (brief) answer in the morning, when I will ask my next question.

Humor me.

http://www.vgchartz.com/worldtotals.php?name=&publisher=245&console=&genre=&minSales=0&results=50&sort=Total

Look at that list, what do you see?

Look at the top 20, the top 30, heck look at all of them, almost all of them are 2D or expanded audience games, very few are not, none of the core 3D games are in the top 20, Heck Mario 64 doesn't even show up until 24 on the list

Hahahaha, no.

1. Try this list. Combines multiplats and is much nicer-looking. http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=111169&page=1#

2. Answer my question from my previous post. "Yes" or 'no" will suffice.