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Forums - Microsoft - New Xbox more than Likely by 2012

HappySqurriel said:
haxxiy said:

I can bet with anyone that by the end of 2012 MS, Sony and Ninty will have released their next gen consoles.

If it isn't clear for you for now, just wait until February or March to see how the whole thing will seem to hit the wall at once... comparisons showing all the consoles and handhelds down year on year some 30%-60% and widespread dismay here at the forums, I can picture it already. The market reacting positively to the 3DS will only make things worse for this gen.

Gears 3, Uncharted 3 and Skyward Sword will be the last huge bullets this gen. Expect Sony, Ninty and MS to focus on their next gen platforms after that. Come on, you know they will.

I'm not really expecting either company to abandon their current platforms, but I do think a lot of people have been failing to pay attention to Sony and Microsoft's efforts to reposition their consoles within the market.

With that said, I think a lot of people are failing to see a trend of third party publishers anticipating the next generation of consoles. In my opinion, 2010 has been the biggest year for PC games since 2004; and (much like 2004) this has been because of increased interest in PC games from consumers (because consoles are no longer competitive) and developers (who are upgrading the tools, technology and processes in anticipation for the next generation). Realistically, I wouldn't be that surprised to see (most) major middleware and game engine developers showing off new (mature) technology at the next GDC all proclaiming that many/most major publishers already had several projects in the works using them.

Bold: good thinking guys. At the moment we get blinded by the solid sales and great game lineups but it's things like those - showings of new tech and sales starting to slow down - that will change the atmosphere and all of a sudden the "general feel" here will be that we anticipate announcements of at least one new next gen console at E3 next year. Add to that statements from MS and Sony that Kinect/Move will be compatible with next gen hardware and it's all clear what will happen.



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I'm interested in seeing how they will support cross-platforms and ease the transition of 12 million gold subscribers.  They can't just drop support of the 360 as that would be voluntarily giving up >= 2 billion p.a. in revenue when you include marketplace downloads, games, accessories etc.



Contrary to popular belief, Kinect is not a stand alone console, it's an add-on to the 360, therefore any games it has, the 360 has.



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ghaleon1980 said:

Dude what are you talking about?  This is all speculation... Kinect is being debuted this year which means that 2011 is when it should really pick up steam and 2012 is when I expect Microsoft to ANNOUNCE their next console with a likely release the 2nd half of 2013.  Releasing a console too early (meaning more than 1 1/2 years too early) would be suicide for them because by the time a competitor comes out with their console they will technologically not be able to compete.


I have to disagree there. The launch schedule will look as follows

 

March 2011 - 3DS

Late 2011 - PSP2

Early 2012 - Wii2 and 720

Late 2012 - PS4

 

This generation is nearly at an end. Kinect and Move are being introduced now to give devs a chance to learn how to make half decent games with motion controls, so that when the next gen of consoles comes out, Sony and MS only have to support classic controllers to the degree the Wii does. They are not intended to lengthen the current generation



scottie said:
ghaleon1980 said:

Dude what are you talking about?  This is all speculation... Kinect is being debuted this year which means that 2011 is when it should really pick up steam and 2012 is when I expect Microsoft to ANNOUNCE their next console with a likely release the 2nd half of 2013.  Releasing a console too early (meaning more than 1 1/2 years too early) would be suicide for them because by the time a competitor comes out with their console they will technologically not be able to compete.


I have to disagree there. The launch schedule will look as follows

 

March 2011 - 3DS

Late 2011 - PSP2

Early 2012 - Wii2 and 720

Late 2012 - PS4

 

This generation is nearly at an end. Kinect and Move are being introduced now to give devs a chance to learn how to make half decent games with motion controls, so that when the next gen of consoles comes out, Sony and MS only have to support classic controllers to the degree the Wii does. They are not intended to lengthen the current generation

I have to disagree with you on the bolded part Sony and MS have good cause to lengthen this gen, Sony is just starting to make money on the PS3 and MS is starting to make a healthier profit on the 360, Kinnect and Move will only serve to boost the # of consoles sold. There is no possible reason either would want the next gen to start this soon. Then let us not forget that the core games on both these systems do not lend themselves well to motion detection.



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ironman said:
scottie said:
ghaleon1980 said:

Dude what are you talking about?  This is all speculation... Kinect is being debuted this year which means that 2011 is when it should really pick up steam and 2012 is when I expect Microsoft to ANNOUNCE their next console with a likely release the 2nd half of 2013.  Releasing a console too early (meaning more than 1 1/2 years too early) would be suicide for them because by the time a competitor comes out with their console they will technologically not be able to compete.


I have to disagree there. The launch schedule will look as follows

 

March 2011 - 3DS

Late 2011 - PSP2

Early 2012 - Wii2 and 720

Late 2012 - PS4

 

This generation is nearly at an end. Kinect and Move are being introduced now to give devs a chance to learn how to make half decent games with motion controls, so that when the next gen of consoles comes out, Sony and MS only have to support classic controllers to the degree the Wii does. They are not intended to lengthen the current generation

1I have to disagree with you on the bolded part Sony and MS have good cause to lengthen this gen, Sony is just starting to make money on the PS3 and MS is starting to make a healthier profit on the 360, 2Kinnect and Move will only serve to boost the # of consoles sold. 3There is no possible reason either would want the next gen to start this soon. 4Then let us not forget that the core games on both these systems do not lend themselves well to motion detection.

 

1) What's the point of getting a bit of profit on this gen's consoles if it means completely fucking up next gen? (See 3)

2) Move has not had a huge effect on console sales so far, no more of an effect than a fairly big game release certainly. I don't see any reason why Kinect will be any different.

3) Take a look at the early years of this generation - releasing earlier allowed MS to build up a considerable userbase advantage, which helped them convince developers to make games for the 360. MS will want this advantage again, Sony cannot allow them to get that advantage

4) Shooters, action-adventure and racers are some of the games that are most hindered by classic controls. Turn based rpgs will work just as well with or without and action rpgs are all essentially shooters or action-adventure in terms of how they control

Halo, Gears, Killzone, MGS, GT, God of War. Surely that includes a few of Sony/MS's core games?

 

The 3DS and PSP2 are being talked about a lot now, the next gen is beginning. Everyone needs to release reasonably soon or there will be no point releasing a console - it will be unable to get enough userbase to warrant game development



HappySqurriel said:

In my opinion, 2010 has been the biggest year for PC games since 2004; and (much like 2004) this has been because of increased interest in PC games from consumers (because consoles are no longer competitive)

I would agree with your opinion that 2010 has been the biggest year for PC games since 2004, but not for your rationale for getting there.  Two of the largest PC franchises (Starcraft, Civilization) had their releases this year.  These weren't because of increased interest from consumers.  Consumers were interested in these titles if they had released in 2008 or 2009, or whenever.    It's just hitting that point where prolific sequels will be on the way.  (Diablo 3,  Probably Half-Life 3, etc). 



Hmmm, its interesting because MS will cut the lifespan of the 360 if they release in 2012, and the problem they have now (which is not many exclusive games) will be repeated when they launch so they're playing a zero sum game. i wouldnt be supprised if for this reason, instead of releasing a HD console, they release something more like the Wii with massive support for kinect and motion controls.



scottie said:
ironman said:
scottie said:
ghaleon1980 said:

Dude what are you talking about?  This is all speculation... Kinect is being debuted this year which means that 2011 is when it should really pick up steam and 2012 is when I expect Microsoft to ANNOUNCE their next console with a likely release the 2nd half of 2013.  Releasing a console too early (meaning more than 1 1/2 years too early) would be suicide for them because by the time a competitor comes out with their console they will technologically not be able to compete.


I have to disagree there. The launch schedule will look as follows

 

March 2011 - 3DS

Late 2011 - PSP2

Early 2012 - Wii2 and 720

Late 2012 - PS4

 

This generation is nearly at an end. Kinect and Move are being introduced now to give devs a chance to learn how to make half decent games with motion controls, so that when the next gen of consoles comes out, Sony and MS only have to support classic controllers to the degree the Wii does. They are not intended to lengthen the current generation

1I have to disagree with you on the bolded part Sony and MS have good cause to lengthen this gen, Sony is just starting to make money on the PS3 and MS is starting to make a healthier profit on the 360, 2Kinnect and Move will only serve to boost the # of consoles sold. 3There is no possible reason either would want the next gen to start this soon. 4Then let us not forget that the core games on both these systems do not lend themselves well to motion detection.

 

1) What's the point of getting a bit of profit on this gen's consoles if it means completely fucking up next gen? (See 3)

There would be none, good thing that's not what's going on here, If they go on to the next gen they lose out on a good deal of revenue they could have recieved. Consumers are still buying these consoles in decent numbers, and to start the next gen with these numbers (which will get a boost from motion control) would be stupid from a business standpoint, both contenders just released new revisions of their console which indicates to me, they plan on staying in this gen for at least three more years.

2) Move has not had a huge effect on console sales so far, no more of an effect than a fairly big game release certainly. I don't see any reason why Kinect will be any different.

Marketing, Move had virtually none, Kinect had the snot marketed out of it, plus, neithor one is a game, you can't look at it that way, they are addons with potentially hundreds of new games, which means they will see a boost in sales (this will ultimately mean a boost in consoles) once software picks up.

3) Take a look at the early years of this generation - releasing earlier allowed MS to build up a considerable userbase advantage, which helped them convince developers to make games for the 360. MS will want this advantage again, Sony cannot allow them to get that advantage

MS was forced to release earlier because Nvidea stopped producing the GPU for the Xbox, it worked to their advantage, but with the current sales trends, and the foreseeable sales trends, they would be foolish to go into next gen so early.

4) Shooters, action-adventure and racers are some of the games that are most hindered by classic controls. Turn based rpgs will work just as well with or without and action rpgs are all essentially shooters or action-adventure in terms of how they control

Well no, all those genras are not hindered by classic controlls, they are enhanced by them, Motion detection is great, but it is more of a gimmic that will not be used 100% of the time for FPS, racers, and AA. Motion control takes too much energy for these, and neithor Move nor Connect has a control scheme that would work well for extended periods of time.

Halo, Gears, Killzone, MGS, GT, God of War. Surely that includes a few of Sony/MS's core games?

 

 

The 3DS and PSP2 are being talked about a lot now, the next gen is beginning. Everyone needs to release reasonably soon or there will be no point releasing a console - it will be unable to get enough userbase to warrant game development.

So, you are compairing the hand held market to the console market? It can't be done, handhelds are a completely differant animal. The next gen in HANDHELDS is coming. Not the console market.





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d21lewis said:
CChaos said:

No chance that 2012 will hold the next XBox. There are several reasons why...

1. Have you noticed that no matter what, if Sony or Microsoft even sneeze, the gaming news knows about it because they have a dozen insiders who run off to tell anyone and anything to the news sites? So far, there has been no patents, no posts about needing technical people, no designs for new technology...absolutely nothing that has been leaked so far, despite the fact that it almost always ends up leaked.

2. The 360 is still making a mint for them. By now, they are already using technology that is cheap enough that they are actually making money off each console. Microsoft is a business. As long as their product is still selling a lot, they're not going to touch that, for fear that they think their money train will crash. Just as with Sony, it would be monumentally stupid to suddenly switch gears and make another new console, yet again with technology that will probably cost them more than the console sells for, when the first is still selling well and will probably do so easily for quite a long time.

3. Where, exactly, are they going to go with the next XBox console? 1080p, like the PS3? Sure, they could do that. 3D? Sadly, that will probably be added too. Toss a Blu-Ray player in there? Could work. But pretty much everything else? Not a lot to shoot for now. They've basically topped out the capabilities without getting into neural uplinks that actually put you into the game. We've reached an echelon of technology that we can see individual eyelashes on a character's face and probably how they interact with a wind coming from a specific direction. Realistic clothing, once considered one of the single hardest things to really do well, is now done in spades. Kinect is a step they're taking. Until they figure out the next one, there's not going to be a new console from anyone out there (except maybe Nintendo).

You don't have a lot of posts but I'll be damned if you don't make an impact when you do post.  You make a lot of sense, buddy.

Much obliged! Though, alas, I figure most of mine aren't even read due to their length anyways. heh

All in all, I think such an early announcement for a console would be fallacy. But, we'll just have to wait and see who's right.