thoughtspeak said:
Ok, Ive got a bit of free time now so u will relay my feelings regarding the trailer properly.
I am not known for my brevity so if you are the type that hates a wall of text, here is the TL;DR version - while impressive for ninja theory, this trailer is simply nowhere good enough.
The first point of contention is that they (NT) felt it necessary to highlight that this trailer is a work in progress. Sorry guys, that does not make them or it immune to criticism. Every game that hasn't gone Gold by any developer is a work in progress. To state that at the beginning of the trailer not only suggest a lack in confidence in your own product, but also highlights a built in need to be given special treatment. If platinum games can release prototypes of games that are only 4 months in development without such a disclaimer (bayonetta) I see no reason for ninja theory to do the same.
On to the trailer. While I did like the music, it was used in a very manipulative way. if you know anything about sound design you know certain tempos can provoke different emotional reactions in relation to the images shown on screen. While of all my points I readily admit this is the shakiest, it felt to me from even the start this trailer was trying to give a "told you so, so there vibe"
I won't comment on the setting or inception inspired environment as these are things I dint mind. While not classic DMC, they are perfectly acceptable as a new take on the franchise. I did think the use of Color was grossly overdone, but that has always been NT's style.
The first part of the combat was a series of combos with the new morphing sword. These begin with Dante failing around with the sword wildly instead of the controlled swordsman ship of old. I won’t comment negatively on this, although I personally don’t like it, as the story is supposed be set at a point where Dantes is not quite as skilled as he is in earlier titles. Even so, it shows the enemies as cannon fodder in a way that is not characteristic of the DMC series and suggests that enemies are slow to attack and do not prose a real threat.
After a quick cut we then see some of the air combat shown. What was evident straight away was the floaty physics and hit detection of the blows. It was neatly hidden by the "impact shake" added in the edit but still visible to the trained eye. What was more worrying is that the animations for these moves were not actually derived from Dante but rather Nero. This was especially noticeable as the downward slash was Nero’s split, not Dante’s helm breaker. The final nail in the coffin was that the helm breaker created no ground bounce as in previous titles. This has always been important for hit stun while continuing combos.
We then have sequence of Dante plunging his sword in a crawling enemies back :- a sadistic action that is far removed from the playful taunts and put downs of previous titles. Worse, the enemies in Devil may cry do not run away from our protagonist, in fact it is their relentless attacking that sets the tone for the pace of the combat. No matter how beaten, they kept coming back at you until you or they were dead.
I’ll talk about the god awful “dante trigger” in a later section but for now, lets move on to the next move on to the next section, the axe weapon in the alley way. Highly reminiscent of the Darksiders title, the axe weapon provides a 3 hit to knockdown function. On paper this is perfectly fine, but the way it is implemented shows immediate cause for concern. Firstly the animation for this heaver weapon is choppy, which is actually highlighted not hidden by the slowdown edit. Second, the hit detection leaves a lot to be desired as while the enemies are clearly hit by the weapon the first time and reacts accordingly; subsequent hits actually pass through their body before being registered for a reaction. While this can be true for any title, DMC has in the past been a lot better with this issue even in the ps2 days. The only title that isn’t is dmc2.
We then have Dante failing through a window into a gothic church reminiscent of previous titles. This is good and in limited doses, comprises a level of fan service that ninja theory should be commended on. However, what happens in the church is not. We are treated to a dazzle of combos that are reasonable fast paced and somewhat stylish…at least on first view. Taking a moment to pause however reveals some horrendous oversights.
Firstly, rather than have the enemies truly react to being struck, they given 2 animations a static one and a hit one. It is jarring to watch in slow motion and is carefully hidden with the rotating camera.(this is a recurring theme) the changes of weapon are also badly animated, with Dantes new scythe being twirled around like a nunchuck, but having both a limited animation both with enemies and his own hands. Its quite poignant that the best move, where he twirls it in from of him similar to his old revolver move is by far the worst animated and thus, the camera is set at the furthest distance.
We then are greeted with a spectacle of him rising with the enemies in tow, again with this twirl scythe being the facilitator. But if you notice closely, the enemies have no animation for the repeated hits of this combo, in fact remove the splash effects and would just think they are just rising in the air for no apparent reason. There is no feedback for each blow that connects.
It is ended with a sword strike which again seems more like an unfocused unskilled strike…to be honest, it looks more like being hit with a baseball bat.
Then we are treated to him returning to the ground with a volcano type move, which far as I can see actually is done well, except for the fact that the ground damage occurs before he even hits the ground. It is honestly hard to judge this because at this point the camera has become too dizzying.
Then we move on to the midboss who is the only enemy that is shown to attack. While his presence is signified by a bear howl…there is no audio cue for his attack, which again is a mainstay of the series. Even discounting the intended slowdown of his charge, he moves extremely slow, but again this is a point that at this present moment I have no real problem with. The skystar move is a bit cheesy compared to the previous games, but it is reasonable. The awful animation of the axe helm breaker is not, nor is the final shock wave that erupts from it.
Visuals
Visually the game looks an absolute mess. Textures pop in and out, there are jagged edges everywhere everything looks rough and gritty and not in a nice way. Compare this trailer with enslaved and you can see that there are a lot of issues that clearly need to be ironied out to even match that game. This trailer makes DMC4 look like uncharted.
Weapons.
The weapons and their related moves seem to be borrowing from every game not named dmc. Darksiders light effects, heavenly sword, weapon switching, prototype’s whipfist, the list goes on. Compare the quality of the weapon compared to even what was suggested in the initial trailer and you can see clearly how the quality has gone way down. The whip fist in particular just seems like a cynical way to emulate Nero’s devil trigger and hasn’t been implemented well at all. There is no give when it is sent out, not is there any tension when it connects. It’s just a mess.
Dante trigger
Oh god for the love of whats holy? What the fuck? This is supposed to be a game how Dante becomes the Dante we know and love and now suddenly its some kind of power up derived from too many hours watching dragonball z? I love the old design but I would have preferred they just left it out entirely than butcher it like that. It’s frankly ridiculous that not only does his hair change colour, but the colour of his clothes suddenly become red too. It’s ridiculous and has created a plot black hole for a developer that is supposed to be renowned for creating cohesive stories.
Framerate framerate framerate.
If there is any proof why action games should be locked at 60FPS as a standard it’s this. The framerate was all over the place and affected everything from the weapon animation, to texture pop in. It’s insane how bad it looked at points. I fathom to think what the responsiveness of the controls will be like in response to this.
Like many of said, the bad character design, secrecy with the title and finally this trailer remind fans for of DMC2 than anything else. The absolutely disgusting interview with alex jones shows that are concerns are not going to be address and are just being swept under the rug. The fact that it the director of DMC4 is overseeing this is not reassuring, we have not forgot how much he pandered to the producers wishes in DMC4 and the fact that he directed DMC2. While Ninja theory very well may impress with the voice acting and motion capture, they haven’t even matched their own standards with the art direction and are seriously lacking in the gameplay department, although nobody can say they haven’t given it a decent shot.
I actually could go on but I think that’s enough. That was the worst DMC trailer ever. It was however the best ninja theory trailer ever. Go figure. I will be not be buying this title, or even renting it. They had their chance to convince me and they have blew it. |
1. Its a work in progress, whatever conatations that might have i dont know.
2. Seems like hes adept at using a sword in other parts of the trailer. the beginning is just a build up with some slow motion. since we dont have a demo of the game we dont know how the enemies will behave. however i find it hard to believe they will simply wait around, since in Enslaved the enemies have attack patterns.
3. I didnt play DMC4 much (i put it down after the first few hours), but this is a different Dante, its natural that he would have a different move set. i cant comment on the visuals since i am the untrained eye, as will many people be who watch the trailer. the problem i think is whether the physics stuff you mentioned are superifical problems or are they problems that will affect the gameplay. we wont know until we can see a demo of the final build. either way my point is that loads of games and films use camera tricks to create the illusion of something that isnt there. the things your mentioned are designed to enhance the games visuals - however as long as they dont affect the gameplay and are unoticable then i dont have a problem with it.
4. Dosent Dante to similar stuff in the other games. i seem to recall him stabbing a Despair Embodied in one of the final cutscenes of DMC2, then shooting a wounded Despaired Embodied in head. seemed pretty cool to me. if Ninja Theory are making the game darker then i dont have a problem with it. but i'm pretty sure he does behave violently to demons in other games. so i think the question is better put to Capcom on the other DMC games rather than Ninja Theory in this case.
5. I couldnt tell from watching the trailer, but again my point is, its an illusion of something, its not a real axe slicing through an enemy. if the problems are unoticiable to the human eye in the final build i dont have a problem with it. i'll skip a lot of the points you've mentioned here, since i couldnt detect these problems by just watching the trailer. if they cause problems during the final build then.... but again my point is its not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it dosent affect my enjoyment of the game - but its too early to tell.
6. I dont have a problem if there is no bear howl. jumping and leaping over an enemy - this is cheesy?? i dont have a problem with it.
7. visuals - no comment, it didnt seem too bad to me. maybe things need to be ironed out, but it is still a working title.
8. again, a different Dante, different weapons. in DMC4 we had some weird breifcase thing, and in DMC3 an electric guitar, so i dont see what the problem is if we have new weapons. and in DMC2 we had no different weapons - only swords. so i'm not sure why it would be a problem for new weapons to be introduced.
9. fans have complained about Dante being redeisgned and now their complaining that old Dante will return?? and DMC4s Dante was a westernised character, evident in my comparasion on pg1. so i'm not sure it could be worst that that. however i agree they shouldve left it out, it dosent seem to fit.
10. Bayonetta the best action game (yes better than GOW3 - i've platinumed both) actully runs at 30FPS and i dont think this was a problem. it still trumped DMC3 and DMC4 (which ran at 60FPS), so i'm not sure this will be a problem, however we will need to wait until the final build.
i dont think i've really given a robust answer to your problems, since i am the untrained eye. but i was also concerned about the use of Unreal Engine 3... however no amount of shading, textures, framerate boons, etc could hide how boring DMC4 was imo - i put the game down after a few hours. and i' not sure how things will end up since its still a working title. but as long as the problems are unoticable and dont affect the gameplay then i dont have a problem with it. i would rather have a great game that is enjoyable to play, rather than have a game with perfect physics but isnt fun to play, ie DMC4, or FF13. so in a nutshell, i to was concerned about the framerate issues and the use of Unreal Engine 3, however i am willing to give the game a chance if Ninja Theory can make those problems undetectable in a demo of the game (which none of us can comment on since none of us have played the game yet).
