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Forums - Sales Discussion - Are you happy with the way VGC tracks Move sales ?

 

Are you happy with the way VGC tracks Move sales ?

No. They should track total # of units sold. 53 32.92%
 
Yes ! Its fine. 78 48.45%
 
Include the real number sold in brackets ! 30 18.63%
 
Total:161
thismeintiel on 21 September 2010
VXIII said:
thismeintiel said:

My main problem with it is, when did VGC become a site that estimates "active userbase"?  Am I wrong in assuming the year or so I've been here that those HW and SW numbers on the main page are estimates of sold-to-customer?  Or did I miss something, and this whole time they have accounted for failure rates and replacements (I know this is definitely not the case)? And didn't the article say preliminary SALES, not preliminary ACTIVE USERBASE?  So why are we even trying to calculate that, especially considering how almost completely impossible it is?  Or if you want to calculate it fine, but don't say, "Well this estimation on unique users is the sales numbers now."

I mean really you're giving an unfair advantage to other devices, especially Kinect (we know the comparisons will be made).  Basically, you're saying ONE unit of Kinect sold, even if it's multiple to one person/household, count as ONE unit sold here.  But with Move, TWO or even THREE units of Move controllers sold may be counted as ONE unit, since it could be multiple units sold to one person/household.  How does that make sense at all?

We'll get both "active userbase" and standalone Move controllers numbers , don't forget about that , it's more acceptable that way.

I don't mind getting both.  But, when I have to use my own calculator to find the real amount of Move HW (the Move controllers) sold, that's just seems kinda sad to me.  Nowhere in the article was the number 185,000.  The only sum was 140,000, an estimate of unique users to the WHOLE Eye/Move experience.  Now, ioi said that developers want to know about unique users, but doesn't that include the people who bought a PSEye beforehand?  I mean, even though I already had an Eye, I'm still a unique user to Move.  Plus, I think developers want to know that there are an additional ~ 45,000 Move controllers out there.  That's a lot of potential customers.  I'm one of them, and I already bought 8 disc and PSN games that can use Move.

Edit: @ ioi

Yea, I misinterpreted what you said when I posted before , but I got it before I posted this one.  You're going by new purchases of Eye plus the Move.  And with single purchases of the controller, you're taking off those who you estimate already owned the PSEye.  Am I right?



 

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Seece on 21 September 2010
ioi said:

This isn't really open to debate.

We are not going to be "tracking" Move since we don't track any other peripheral publically on the site. What we will be doing is offering periodic updates on Move and Kinect penetration / userbase which is what matters to developers / investors etc.

Is Kinect Adventures bundled with Kinect WW? Makes me wonder if they'll actually sell it on it's own at retail if it is.

Essentially Kinect Adventures numbers will be Kinects?



 

Kantor on 21 September 2010

There are reasons for showing each.

The number of full sets comes closer to showing the actual install base, since many people will buy more than one Move controller. But then there are people who already own the PS Eye, who are buying a standalone controller. So it's not perfect.

The number of Move units sold is hard data. It shows exactly how many Move controllers have been sold. Statistically, it's useless, because people aren't going to buy one copy of Sorcery for each of their Move controllers, but it should be provided all the same. And ioi did provide it. He just didn't add it up.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

donsterydo2 on 21 September 2010
Seece said:
ioi said:

This isn't really open to debate.

We are not going to be "tracking" Move since we don't track any other peripheral publically on the site. What we will be doing is offering periodic updates on Move and Kinect penetration / userbase which is what matters to developers / investors etc.

Is Kinect Adventures bundled with Kinect WW? Makes me wonder if they'll actually sell it on it's own at retail if it is.

Essentially Kinect Adventures numbers will be Kinects?

 

Every Kinect will be sold with Kinect Adventures! so Kinect Adventures! sales = Kinect sales. The same thing goes with preorders, you can't preorder Kinect Adventures! alone.



Seece on 21 September 2010
donsterydo2 said:
Seece said:
ioi said:

This isn't really open to debate.

We are not going to be "tracking" Move since we don't track any other peripheral publically on the site. What we will be doing is offering periodic updates on Move and Kinect penetration / userbase which is what matters to developers / investors etc.

Is Kinect Adventures bundled with Kinect WW? Makes me wonder if they'll actually sell it on it's own at retail if it is.

Essentially Kinect Adventures numbers will be Kinects?

 

Every Kinect will be sold with Kinect Adventures! so Kinect Adventures! sales = Kinect sales. The same thing goes with preorders, you can't preorder Kinect Adventures! alone.

What if your Kinect Adventure disc doesn't work, what do retail do? Or what if it breaks? ect?



 

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VXIII on 21 September 2010
thismeintiel said:
VXIII said:
thismeintiel said:

My main problem with it is, when did VGC become a site that estimates "active userbase"?  Am I wrong in assuming the year or so I've been here that those HW and SW numbers on the main page are estimates of sold-to-customer?  Or did I miss something, and this whole time they have accounted for failure rates and replacements (I know this is definitely not the case)? And didn't the article say preliminary SALES, not preliminary ACTIVE USERBASE?  So why are we even trying to calculate that, especially considering how almost completely impossible it is?  Or if you want to calculate it fine, but don't say, "Well this estimation on unique users is the sales numbers now."

I mean really you're giving an unfair advantage to other devices, especially Kinect (we know the comparisons will be made).  Basically, you're saying ONE unit of Kinect sold, even if it's multiple to one person/household, count as ONE unit sold here.  But with Move, TWO or even THREE units of Move controllers sold may be counted as ONE unit, since it could be multiple units sold to one person/household.  How does that make sense at all?

We'll get both "active userbase" and standalone Move controllers numbers , don't forget about that , it's more acceptable that way.

I don't mind getting both.  But, when I have to use my own calculator to find the real amount of Move HW (the Move controllers) sold, that's just seems kinda sad to me.  Nowhere in the article was the number 185,000.  The only sum was 140,000, an estimate of unique users to the WHOLE Eye/Move experience.  Now, ioi said that developers want to know about unique users, but doesn't that include the people who bought a PSEye beforehand?  I mean, even though I already had an Eye, I'm still a unique user to Move.  Plus, I think developers want to know that there are an additional ~ 45,000 Move controllers out there.  That's a lot of potential customers.  I'm one of them, and I already bought 8 disc and PSN games that can use Move.

Edit: @ ioi

Yea, I misinterpreted what you said when I posted before , but I got it before I posted this one.  You're going by new purchases of Eye plus the Move.  And with single purchases of the controller, you're taking off those who you estimate already owned the PSEye.  Am I right?

You got that wrong , they are included ( 25% of total sales of standalone Move controllers )

---------------

Edit : OH !!, you got it right in your 'Edit' ^^



zgamer5 on 21 September 2010
Barozi said:
zgamer5 said:
Rainbird said:
zgamer5 said:
Fufinu said:
zgamer5 said:

its fine, as long as they list the sale of total stand alone move controllers. as i and many people will only get the controller and the nav(or use a dualshock 3) to play games like kz3, infamous 2 and socom 4 which dont require a ps eye.

erm you still need the eye for move to work.

so the move cant work without the eye? i want proof!!!

Lol, it doesn't work without the Eye, and that's a fact. The only thing you can do with without an eye is to navigate the XMB.

damn :( now im going to have to spend more money. curse you sony!

hehe you really thought you could just move the crosshair in shooters without a sensor bar or a camera ? ^^

I'm not trying to mock you, I just find that pretty funny.

since the move has blue tooth i though that it could get around it. but i never knew it had to be the ps eye :(. now i have to go buy sports champions yippeeeee :(



Being in 3rd place never felt so good

irtz on 21 September 2010

well my opinion is vgc should not track move sales cause it is ps3 accessory not proper hardware like wii, ps3,360,ds or psp.well many might disagree with me but i havent heard any1 that tracks accessories



thismeintiel on 21 September 2010
ioi said:
thismeintiel said:

Now, ioi said that developers want to know about unique users, but doesn't that include the people who bought a PSEye beforehand?  I mean, even though I already had an Eye, I'm still a unique user to Move.  Plus, I think developers want to know that there are an additional ~ 45,000 Move controllers out there.  That's a lot of potential customers.  I'm one of them, and I already bought 8 disc and PSN games that can use Move.

Edit: @ ioi

And with single purchases of the controller, you're taking off those who you estimate already owned the PSEye.  Am I right?


Again, without trying to sound rude if you read what I've posted in this thread as well as the article you see that we are adding people who have bought a full bundle (controller and camera) to a proportion of those who bought just a controller which relates to those with an existing camera.

The 25% rate here is back-calculated using historical "controller attachment" rates to give an idea of how many stand-alone controller purchases will be a 2nd, 3rd, 4th controller vs how many will be a first controller for existing camera users. So your purchase would be included in the calculations.

Oh ok, I just had the reasoning with the standalone controllers reversed.  You've subtracted the ones you feel are bought as additional controllers.  Sorry, for confusing that.

But still, my point stands (although slightly altered).  Wouldn't have been better to put it more like: So first week Move HW sales across America and Europe stand at ~ 185K.  Furthermore, by using bundle sales and historical controller attachment rates, we've estimated that there are ~ 140K unique Move setups in various homes.

Looking at it now, both numbers are very important to developers.  The 140K for obvious reasons.  But the 185K also shows them how many homes may be set up for simultaneous multiplayer, as well as games requiring 2 Moves to play (The Fight).

Anyway, just my 2 cents.



 

Strength on 21 September 2010

Around 195000 Move controllers were sold, but you are counting them if they are bought with a Playstation Eye with it. But then you are really not tracking the Playstation Move only, you are tracking the Playstation Move/Eye sales. The Playstation Eye is not part of the Playstation Move. It is required to use the Move but not sold with it. Also lots of people have the Eye and doing the 25% doesn't help either considering the only history of motion controllers is the Wii-Motes and you can't buy the sensor.( I think we can't, can we?)