FightingGameGuy said: Rab said: FreeTalkLive rocks! said: If you want to know what life was like under communism read a book by Ayn Rand. The worst part about communism? No videogames! I guess your alluding to Soviet style Communism there are others like Democratic Communism which would be different again   As for videogames not being in a communist economy that doesnt make sense except as a sterio type. Communism by it's very definition would mean that all things are available to all people including yes you guessed it videogames Even in theory, all things for all people is impossible. Not everyone in the world can have a 100+ carat diamond, because there simply aren't 6 billion of them in the world. Heck, not everyone could even have a Wii, as there aren't enough of those to meet to demand. Inevitably, as communism ignores supply and demand it will create "deadweight loses", that is loss of efficiency, to society. In our wii example it would stem from the fact there would be a greater total volume of money spent at the market price detemined by how many people would pay market price (supply and demand) instead of the volume of money spent by communists at the controlled price. The difference in volumes is the deadweight loss to society. As these discrepancies of price grow they can have negative effects in addition to the loss of efficiency. If the discrepancy is high enough you can have a blackmarket emerge that re-sells items.  Allotment of all goods does no better; what if you really want a wii and are willing to trade tons of your goods for it? Go to a blackmarket and pray you don't get thrown into some gulag for doing so. Futhermore, if the controlled price is unprofitable, businesses will simply shutdown. No wii for anyone. But more seriously, no bread for the people in Zimbabwe. Communism is such a pathetic economic policy I'm proud to be one of those capitalist American pigs that brands anyone speaking of such idiocy either utterly ignorant of basics economics or a pinko. Now if we could only get rid of our darned farm subsidies and do the world some good .... @Soriku: A Communist society can't co-exist with a capitialist societies because the capitalist societies will nearly always developmentally outstrip the communist societies over time due their greater efficiency.

Efficient to who? The capitalist, not society. They can't co-exist, you're right about that, that's the reason why i said earlier that the communistic country needs to be isolated and don't use money. Communism is financially much more efficient system than capitalism. In communism you don't need money. You need to think outside the box. And why should communism ignore supply and demand? There's no reason that i can think of for that. Now you assume, that everyone would want everything. That's how it works in capitalism, when everything has a value in money or everything expensive would be seen as luxury items. You need to think outside the box again. What happens when the diamond doesn't have that value in money and therefore can't be seen as a luxury item? @Nintendownsmii: I agree about that ideal part, but the problem is, that it's the revolution and dictatorship stage, that people (with the power) are stuck with. Somewhat ideal communism works at the moment in smaller scales all over the world -maybe even at your home, but in larger scale, it doesn't tend to work, since the people with power tend to turn into capitalist since it benefits them more. So the democratict phase stays unreached. Although, usually the dictators call themselves as communists to stay in power.

The is just one problem with all forms of government be it capitalist or communist, religion, hell every aspect of life is screwed for one very simple reason.

But diamonds are still really shiny! I would want one.

capitalism. it works.

Soriku said: Here's what my friends (and I) came up with: If we had Communism, we'd have to make it sorta similar to how the Native Americans lived. ie. A system of trade. And you can't basically steal something because no one owns it. Here I go: Communism, in my mind, would be a system of trade. For example, if a person wants to become a vet, let them be a vet. A cook, let them be a cook. Now say for example there is a farmer, OK? There is also a vet. If one of the farmer's animals get sick, the vet tries to make the animal well again. In exchange for the vet's services, the farmer gives the vet food in exchange for healing his animal(s). Sound fair enough? Now for the labor: Everyone has to do work to accomplish something. If you don't do work, or are lazy, well you don't get anything in return. This system if trade is, well, complex. You don't do your share as you're supposed to, you don't get anything. If you want to live, and don't want to starve to deah, you do your work and if you don't do it then no one gives you anything in return. It's that simple. Now for the people who CAN'T work due to problems they have: Someone takes care of them. A doctor, perhaps. If someone is good at doctoring, let them be a doctor. You don't want a novice/amateur, you want someone who is devoted and is responsible and smart enough to take the job. Now the doctor and their family takes care of them, and for the doctor's service, the family trades something of their specialty for their service. Sound fair? I think this would also stop war. There might be trouble, but that's why you have the military. Instead of bringing the whole military in, branch them off to small groups we now call "police" or back then, the "knights." They take care of things. If someone is being an idiot, causing MAJOR (I mean MAJOR) and maybe even killing, well, you shoot them. But why would you kill in this situation? (IIRC) 99% of the killings in the US is due to people getting high and taking drugs. Make drugs illegal. Now for the bad: I don't think we'd have such a modern society as we have now. We might not be as advanced. Communism is now an extinct thing BECAUSE we've been using Capitalism for hundreds of years. Communism sucks now. --- Anyone share opinions?

 Alright, two things.

 Firstly, what you described isn't communism, it's a combination of a barter economy and a totalitarian government, which are the two least effective forms of economic and government policies.

Secondly, of all places to discuss such a pointless topic, you chose a capitalist website, one which tracks financial data and sales statistics.  Irony = pwned.

 

P.S.: You probably shouldn't express your views on an English speaking site if your English grammar isn't very good.  Yours is not good.   People judge you highly on two things: appearance and grammar.  You've already failed on one of those fronts.

The Human Race is teh doomed. DEAL WITH IT

bdbdbd said: FightingGameGuy said: Rab said: FreeTalkLive rocks! said: If you want to know what life was like under communism read a book by Ayn Rand. The worst part about communism? No videogames! I guess your alluding to Soviet style Communism there are others like Democratic Communism which would be different again   As for videogames not being in a communist economy that doesnt make sense except as a sterio type. Communism by it's very definition would mean that all things are available to all people including yes you guessed it videogames Even in theory, all things for all people is impossible. Not everyone in the world can have a 100+ carat diamond, because there simply aren't 6 billion of them in the world. Heck, not everyone could even have a Wii, as there aren't enough of those to meet to demand. Inevitably, as communism ignores supply and demand it will create "deadweight loses", that is loss of efficiency, to society. In our wii example it would stem from the fact there would be a greater total volume of money spent at the market price detemined by how many people would pay market price (supply and demand) instead of the volume of money spent by communists at the controlled price. The difference in volumes is the deadweight loss to society. As these discrepancies of price grow they can have negative effects in addition to the loss of efficiency. If the discrepancy is high enough you can have a blackmarket emerge that re-sells items. Allotment of all goods does no better; what if you really want a wii and are willing to trade tons of your goods for it? Go to a blackmarket and pray you don't get thrown into some gulag for doing so. Futhermore, if the controlled price is unprofitable, businesses will simply shutdown. No wii for anyone. But more seriously, no bread for the people in Zimbabwe. Communism is such a pathetic economic policy I'm proud to be one of those capitalist American pigs that brands anyone speaking of such idiocy either utterly ignorant of basics economics or a pinko. Now if we could only get rid of our darned farm subsidies and do the world some good .... @Soriku: A Communist society can't co-exist with a capitialist societies because the capitalist societies will nearly always developmentally outstrip the communist societies over time due their greater efficiency.   Efficient to who? The capitalist, not society. They can't co-exist, you're right about that, that's the reason why i said earlier that the communistic country needs to be isolated and don't use money. Communism is financially much more efficient system than capitalism. In communism you don't need money. You need to think outside the box. And why should communism ignore supply and demand? There's no reason that i can think of for that. Now you assume, that everyone would want everything. That's how it works in capitalism, when everything has a value in money or everything expensive would be seen as luxury items. You need to think outside the box again. What happens when the diamond doesn't have that value in money and therefore can't be seen as a luxury item? @Nintendownsmii: I agree about that ideal part, but the problem is, that it's the revolution and dictatorship stage, that people (with the power) are stuck with. Somewhat ideal communism works at the moment in smaller scales all over the world -maybe even at your home, but in larger scale, it doesn't tend to work, since the people with power tend to turn into capitalist since it benefits them more. So the democratict phase stays unreached. Although, usually the dictators call themselves as communists to stay in power.

 Efficient in terms of total output, commonly measured as GDP.  In capitalist society, the entire society considered as a whole gets more due to the superior market efficiency, but there are is no re-distribution of that wealth to even it out.

 Money isn't the issue you can have value aside from it in barter systems.  Diamonds are shiny, pretty, and perhaps most importanly rare.  Even in barter systems they were historically incredibly valuable.  You're arbitrarily saying that in your communist society that diamonds won't have value but they will regardless of what any two-bit fearless leader declares.  The moment two people disagree with him your ideal communist society collapses.  The government is forced to either let market forces establish a value for diamonds, or try in vain to "re-educate" people that diamonds don't have value through whatever suppresive, controlling measures it wants to try.  

"Communism is financially much more efficient than capitalism" WTF? any time you set prices you are ignoring supply and demand.  The whole point of supply and demand is that the market reaches an equilibrium price on its own. 

You seem to believe that money makes things less efficient when the exact opposite is true.  Without money its far more difficult and less efficient for the market to reach the equilibrium price, let alone have anyone buy anything and get goods to those who will actually use them as quickly as possible. Do you really want, or are you even prepared, to care for the 40 chickens I give you for my wii until you sell them again?  Money is an invention that makes trade, and hence economic activity, more efficient not less.

If your ideal communism doesn't set prices, allot goods, or allot jobs and their incomes, I don't really know what system of government you're talking about but any country that does, is ignoring supply and demand and in consequence, is less efficient than the ideal capitalist society.

Communism is a form of government thought up by ignoramuses with no understanding of economics and the way the world works.  (As Played_out read both the Wealth of Nations and Das Kapital and decide for your self whose work is more intelligent.) Their self-perceived righteousness in enforcing social justice does not make them any more comptetent at running a society.  Communism is horribly inefficient to society, and -- worse -- can't conceivably work as long as humans are free to decide their own desires and act on them in an ecomonic manner.  Its a failure in theory and in history.

I think that it is unfair to say that since we do not have pure capitalism in the West, it is evidence that capitalism and communism both do not work.  What we have today is much closer to capitalism than communism.  We can point to the west and say "this is capitalism and this is how it would function".  Communism could never work, because no organization could ever exist that could perform the tasks necessary to manage an economy, and politics, and social structure etc.  If you read any communist writing, even the writings of Karl Marx, for the most part they are simply critiques of the capitalist system.  No comprehensive alternative has ever been offered.  This is becuase no organization could ever handle the tasks assigned to them.  People like to say that communist countries failed because of evil dictators.  This is becuase only a megalomaniac would find themself sufficient to handle the task.

Communism would be okay if it wasn't replaced with a dictatorship every time it came up. Russia was no longer communist as soon as they failed to win their own election and stayed in power through military force. The moral of the story is that a power vacuum will ALWAYS be filled, and not usually by someone with any kind of humanitarian spirit. Try to take power from everyone and you'll end up with one guy who takes over. That's the problem communism has, general instability. And a tendency to sweep crazy people into positions of extreme power, thereby eradicating itself.

Lol Soriku's a commie.

I am just playing Soriku, but I hear you're the most picked on on this site.