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be fruitful and multiply(quote from the bible), so sex before marriage is not a sin.



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MARCUSDJACKSON said:

be fruitful and multiply(quote from the bible), so sex before marriage is not a sin.

Actually that quote is generally used against contraception. Sex for non-reproductive reasons is a sin (according to that quote).



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pizzahut451 said:
ManusJustus said:

If anything, Atheists are more 'moral' than the rest of society as we have the lowest crime rates of all 'religious' groups, though that probably has more to do with atheists tending to be more educated and wealthy, which are better predictions of likelihood to commit crime.

just a fiiiiiiine example of arrogance that is so incredibly high among atheists

Its not arrogance if its a fact.  Look at statistics on the matter, you'll find that atheists tend to be more educated and wealthier than the rest of society and that atheists have lower crime rates.

As I said before, I think economics is the biggest predictor of crime, and it makes sense that wealthy people aren't going to be knocking up banks and jacking cars.  Thus, atheists commit less crime but aren't necessarily more moral than the rest of society, though its ridiculous that people would consider atheists less moral when they are the best behaved members of society.



sapphi_snake said:
MARCUSDJACKSON said:

be fruitful and multiply(quote from the bible), so sex before marriage is not a sin.

Actually that quote is generally used against contraception. Sex for non-reproductive reasons is a sin (according to that quote).



i dissagree. iiii? a snake lol!



pizzahut451 said:
Homer_Simpson said:
pizzahut451 said:
Homer_Simpson said:

retarded comparison is retarded

none of those people so far as I know killed BECAUSE of there atheism or other peoples religions, whereas things like holy wars and the crusades WERE implicitly about religion and people not liking each others religions, but hey if you are a blind theist you wont want to accept this.


No, not really, go get a history book and start reading, because the religion was the last thing crusades were about. And the people i mentioned were atheists who killed in the name of communisam which promotes and helps spreading atheisam. But that doesnt really matter. The fact is, atheists killed millions of people. But if you're blind arrogant atheist you wont want to accep this.

Epic Fail, I know enough about history to know thats shit, just because the powers that be dont let people associate anything bad with religion, doesnt mean that the enlightened among us cant see the truth

you clearly know FUCK ALL about communism aswel, true communism is both INTERNATIONAL and PEACEFUL, hardly surprising that yanks cant comprehend that though...

also, communism is secular not atheistic, there is a difference, again, this is no doubt beyond your understanding

the fact they were atheists had little or nothing to do with why they killed...whereas the churches that slaughtered millions, used there religion as a reason and a cause of that violence...

I can see from your vocabulary how educated you are on ''history and shit''

If communisam is peacuefull, it wouldnt kill anyone who diasgrees with it and send to prison to worki his ass off. And it doesnt matter if communisam was atheist or not. I said JOSEPH STALIN was atheists and he killed religious people and banned religion to promote communisam which supports atheisam.

And the people got killed by an atheist for believing in God. Try twisting it as long as you want. Its the fact.


Stalin was not a communist, he was a nationalist...

he didnt kill in the name of atheism...he did it because he thought his nation and its ways were supreme...same with most people like him, religious leaders though often used there religion as an excuse for this or it motivated them rather than just nationalism.

they werent killed by him for believing in god, but for not conforming...heck, the very idea of nationalism is inherently similar to religion, both want those who dont conform to them to "burn in hell" as such...



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ManusJustus said:
MrBubbles said:

if there were good moral examples of atheists to hold up then people wouldnt assume they are amoral.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet don't believe in God, and they donated billions of dollars to chairty.  If that ain't morals, then I don't know what is.


Both seem to be agnostic and not atheist...



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sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
chocoloco said:

Well as an atheist I like to kill, rape, pilage, steal, make child pornagraphy and basically just not give a fuck about anyone but myself. Oh yeah and I like to drown puppies.

 

To so that atheists have no morals is to say morals are absolute, only a self rightous religous person could say that especially when morals can never really be proved to be universal.

 

 

Look at the prison populations and tell me that most of them are not Christians in America.

They are not.

Proof?

the fact they comitted a crime and they are in prison

I said proof that they're not Christians, not proof that they're not good Christians. There is a difference.

This guy is in denile. He actually thinks you can define a good Christian when Christians can't even agree on what is a good Christian.



Badassbab said:
Kasz216 said:
Badassbab said:

Not sure what your getting at. As in say human rights organisations such as Amnesty International with over a million members (including myself) are not 'moral'? There are thousands of charities with no religious affliation nor will they restrict volunteers and workers to atheists for non religious moral reasons.

Are you seriously suggesting atheists should do what they shouldn't do and form a charity with a restrictive membership based on professing atheism? There are plenty of atheist groups one can join which up dates members what atheists consider to be immoral religious teachings. As pointed out numerous times, morality is subjective and evolving.

You couldn't of missed the point any harder if you tried.

Likely because your in "angry self defense mode" rather then "lets look at the numbers and causes" mode.

I'll try and explain again, though it'll be hard to do in a different way.  Please try and look at it from an objective viewpoint and don't assume anything.

1) On average (note: average)  religious people are more likely to give money, blood and effort to both secular and nonsecular charities.  If you are currently religious, there is a much higher chance you are going to donate to charity and give blood/donate time.

2) We need to find a reason for why this would be true.  My hypothesis is that the church works as a large community that peer pressures people into doing the right thing.

Lots of people go to churches who may have moderate to no interest in helping people.

Almost no one is going to join amnesty international unless they REALLY want to give to charity.  Also, you don't have to be catholic to donate time or money to a catholic charity.

As a LOT of charity people will tell you, there is a LOT of untapped money and potential of people who want to be charitable... the only trick is, you need to find ways to coax it out of people.

So what atheism should do if it grows, is find a way to create a "Church like" community like churches, that draw in everybody and then individually asks for help and support.

The point is, getting people to go to a charity event... who wouldn't normally go to a charity event... it's pretty much the biggest dilema charities have had since... well existance.

Religion is much better at in general "reigning in morality" just based on the fact that it's a meeting of the community.

 

I think it's likely that rather then the particular religion, since religion doesn't seem to matter.  All that does matters is that you practice it.  Statistically that is.


So let's see your arguing your point about morality based on...giving to charity?  Ok fine giving to charity is a very noble cause but you can't base your argument soley on that. It's not even a fair comparison as there are billions more people who profess to a religion than atheism. And morality is subjective. The Catholic Church telling it's followers not to use contraception is immoral in my books as it is causing unneccesary deaths. I'm not sure why you highlighted the Amnesty International point in bold. Why did you do that?


It's the best arguement to base it on... because it's the one thing that has ALWAYS been seen as moral... and always will be.  It's one constant everyone can agree too as far as morality goes.

Also, what does billions of more people people matter when i'm talking about averages?

On average... people are far more likely to give to charity and do charitable deeds when they are more knoweldgable.



pearljammer said:

I'm unsure how any of this talk about horrid people who had commited atrocious crimes, either being religious or atheist,  is relevent or even representative of either group of people.

It's ridiculous. Really, really ridiculous.


It's just general strawmanism to avoid the general research on hand.



Just a guess here, but I always thought the best Christian was Christ and that to live in his foot steps would inherently align one with being a good Christian... just a shot in the dark here.



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