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Forums - Sony - New PS Move Ad Trash Talks The Wii

jarrod on 15 September 2010
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

And what does Sony's hypocrisy have to do with this thread?

Yet... Sony had a fitness game before Nintendo? Oh my god. Go start a thread quickly about it. Nintendo are copying scum! D: How DARE they! The great almighty Nintendo!?!!?! D:

Last place is the best place, when you get better 3rd party support than the iPhone <3

Uh... maybe you want to reread the thread if you really think that?  :/

Nintendo made racing games before Sony.  Also, party, action, shooting, fighting, role playing, strategy, simulation and games in almost every other genre.  Simply making a game in the same genre isn't "copying".  Wii Fit is about as much of a "copy" as Gran Turismo is.

"Better" is pretty subjective, but I'd agree, even if it's also "less".  I'd say the same for 360/Wii/DS/PSP/3DS though, so I'm not really seeing what sets PS3 apart?

The thread is about an advert. Nintendo fans are somehow upset about it because the guy says you dont need to just flick your wrist. Thus, it turned into a "OMG Sony are teh devilz" thread. Just like Nintendo fans do to pretty much every other PS Move thread...

Cool. Everyones a copy then. Awesome!

What sets the PS3 (and some of the other consoles) apart is the fans aren't crying because the iPhone gets games that the PS3 doesn't.

See above.  The problem isn't the advert, it's Sony entire PR.  And it's totally understandable, from both ends.

lol.  No, you have this failure to grasp what a copy actually is it seems.  Trying to devalue the definition won't change what Move or Sports Champions is... nice try though.  

I dunno, I remember plenty of Sony central bitching over Chaos Rings. Though maybe it was the PSP guys.



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Carl on 15 September 2010
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

Oh...

And while you're here. Why don't you answer point 1 that I asked earlier. You seem vocal in this thread so come on.

Why are Nintendo fans (you) so upset over this advert?

So you really haven't been reading the thread?  ;)

I already said after watching the ad, it's pretty harmless and doesn't seem like a big deal.  The problem isn't the ad itself, it's the complete shift within Sony PR, and the reaching doublespeak they're doing to promote Move now.  Can't blame them personally, they now have to promote a pretty derivative "Motion product" after continually lambasting the very idea of "Motion products" 3 years back.  That'd a tough road for about anyone.

I fully admit to not sitting through a bunch of pages of angry Nintendo fans trolling Sony ;)

And you admit to taking the thread totally offtopic and trolling Sony then? Awesome. Thanks. That's all I needed.



                            

Carl on 15 September 2010
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

And what does Sony's hypocrisy have to do with this thread?

Yet... Sony had a fitness game before Nintendo? Oh my god. Go start a thread quickly about it. Nintendo are copying scum! D: How DARE they! The great almighty Nintendo!?!!?! D:

Last place is the best place, when you get better 3rd party support than the iPhone <3

Uh... maybe you want to reread the thread if you really think that?  :/

Nintendo made racing games before Sony.  Also, party, action, shooting, fighting, role playing, strategy, simulation and games in almost every other genre.  Simply making a game in the same genre isn't "copying".  Wii Fit is about as much of a "copy" as Gran Turismo is.

"Better" is pretty subjective, but I'd agree, even if it's also "less".  I'd say the same for 360/Wii/DS/PSP/3DS though, so I'm not really seeing what sets PS3 apart?

The thread is about an advert. Nintendo fans are somehow upset about it because the guy says you dont need to just flick your wrist. Thus, it turned into a "OMG Sony are teh devilz" thread. Just like Nintendo fans do to pretty much every other PS Move thread...

Cool. Everyones a copy then. Awesome!

What sets the PS3 (and some of the other consoles) apart is the fans aren't crying because the iPhone gets games that the PS3 doesn't.

See above.  The problem isn't the advert, it's Sony entire PR.  And it's totally understandable, from both ends.

lol.  No, you have this failure to grasp what a copy actually is it seems.  Trying to devalue the definition won't change what Move or Sports Champions is... nice try though.

I dunno, I remember plenty of Sony central bitching over Chaos Rings. Though maybe it was the PSP guys.

Move has been in development since what, 2001? So prove to me that it's a copy. Please. If not we can assume you're just trolling even more, yes?

 



                            

jarrod on 15 September 2010
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:

Monster Hunter Tri outsold basically all Capcom's HD games except RE5, DMC4 and SF4 (and all combined only, bar RE5), and it's vastly outperformed it's PS2 predecessors (by like 3:1 over MH2, 4:1 over MH1) so that game's sales aren't exactly a mark against it.  Besides, it's use of motion control is pretty well mitigated (only some pointer menu selection is mandatory) and it's even (optionally) bundled with a CCPro in all markets, I'm not really sure why it's even really being brought up in the thread on motion control?  Why not compare a game that actually uses motion control intrinsically (like Zack & Wiki) for comparison?

Or Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Umbrella Chronicles, Darkside Chronicles?

Or Metroid Prime 3, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Metroid: Other M even?

Call of Duty 3, World at War, 4?

 Red Steel, Red Steel 2?

The Conduit?

Punch-Out!!?

Mad World?

Zack and Wiki if you so want to go there too.

Most of those games use pretty standard controls that are contextually adapted (like Madworld), or mainly just  pointer controls (essentially a lightgun, which all those railgunners and FPS/TPS use).  And Punch-Out is best played NES style even.  None are really all that close to a "waggle-fest" mini-game comp like Carnival Games.  Hell, in terms of actually interface, even something like Heavy Rain comes closer than probably everything up there besides maybe MadWorld, and that's despite Heavy Rain using dual analogs and button presses.

And actually, if Carnival Games were a PS3 game, it's be the 8th best selling 3rd party title funny enough.  And the 2nd best selling exclusive one.  Interesting.

Yet they are still motion control games. So I don't see your point... They are all motion controlled games on the same platform. You really have no way out of it...

And not necessarily. Because the PS3 userbase isn't a userbase filled with children and old people who buy games like that. It would be lucky to sell 500k on the PS3 really...


Way out of what?  Carnival Games found an audience and did great, it was the right game at the right time with the right push.  Sadly, that's something few 3rd parties have really managed on Wii.  Still, the games you brought up don't make for the best of comparison due to use of motion control (it's either optional, negligible or mainly pointer control for everything but MadWorld), and nearly all them also met or exceeded expectations anyway.

I also agree CG wouldn't have sold as well on PS3 though.  Different demographics, different priorities, different mindsets, different financial commitments and about half the userbase.  Though honestly, I'd say the same about most of Wii's exclusive million sellers (Just Dance, Mario & Sonic 1-2, Raving Rabbids 1-2, Red Steel, MH3, etc).

You're trying to make excuses... Yet all of them use motion control. So as I said, there is no way out of it. Doesn't matter if they don't use it as much, they still use it. How do you know they all met or exceeded expectations? Did the developers of each game say so, or are you just making things up?

What excuses?  Heavy Rain didn't sell as well as COD4 either, what's that mean then exactly?

And in most cases for the games meeting/exceeding expectations, I'm going off (1) a sequel being greenlit or (2) the publisher saying so.  Generally neither of those things happens when a game doesn't meet a certain sales threshold.  And the only ones we can safely say flopped up there are probably MadWorld and Red Steel 2.  RE DSC didn't meet expectations either (it sold 600k, 800k was expected), but that's still a pretty decent amount and well ahead of any comparable games on other platforms.  None of the PS2 Gun Survivors even passed 500k by comparison.

So? (Honestly, I've forgotten what we're even talking about here, I'm on to the usual PS Move thread thing now where it's okay to troll Sony)

A sequel being greenlit doesn't give me proof. 
Publisher saying so... Fair enough. Links?
600k with 800k expected isn't meeting expectations. Despite selling well...

So. Basically you have no proof of them meeting or surpassing expectations?

Red Steel was expected to sell 500k (it cleared a million).  RE4 was expected to sell 450k (it did 1.7m).  REUC was expected to sell 600k (it did 1.2m).  You can find all of that on Ubi and Capcom's IR sites afaik.

For the rest we didn't ever get sales expectations (bar RS2, also 500k, did about half that), but we did get comments occasionally from devs on being happy with sales for some (The Conduit notably). I'm not doing the legwork though, you can google as well as I can (or sift through quarterly reports as well).



Carl on 15 September 2010
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:

Monster Hunter Tri outsold basically all Capcom's HD games except RE5, DMC4 and SF4 (and all combined only, bar RE5), and it's vastly outperformed it's PS2 predecessors (by like 3:1 over MH2, 4:1 over MH1) so that game's sales aren't exactly a mark against it.  Besides, it's use of motion control is pretty well mitigated (only some pointer menu selection is mandatory) and it's even (optionally) bundled with a CCPro in all markets, I'm not really sure why it's even really being brought up in the thread on motion control?  Why not compare a game that actually uses motion control intrinsically (like Zack & Wiki) for comparison?

Or Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Umbrella Chronicles, Darkside Chronicles?

Or Metroid Prime 3, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Metroid: Other M even?

Call of Duty 3, World at War, 4?

 Red Steel, Red Steel 2?

The Conduit?

Punch-Out!!?

Mad World?

Zack and Wiki if you so want to go there too.

Most of those games use pretty standard controls that are contextually adapted (like Madworld), or mainly just  pointer controls (essentially a lightgun, which all those railgunners and FPS/TPS use).  And Punch-Out is best played NES style even.  None are really all that close to a "waggle-fest" mini-game comp like Carnival Games.  Hell, in terms of actually interface, even something like Heavy Rain comes closer than probably everything up there besides maybe MadWorld, and that's despite Heavy Rain using dual analogs and button presses.

And actually, if Carnival Games were a PS3 game, it's be the 8th best selling 3rd party title funny enough.  And the 2nd best selling exclusive one.  Interesting.

Yet they are still motion control games. So I don't see your point... They are all motion controlled games on the same platform. You really have no way out of it...

And not necessarily. Because the PS3 userbase isn't a userbase filled with children and old people who buy games like that. It would be lucky to sell 500k on the PS3 really...


Way out of what?  Carnival Games found an audience and did great, it was the right game at the right time with the right push.  Sadly, that's something few 3rd parties have really managed on Wii.  Still, the games you brought up don't make for the best of comparison due to use of motion control (it's either optional, negligible or mainly pointer control for everything but MadWorld), and nearly all them also met or exceeded expectations anyway.

I also agree CG wouldn't have sold as well on PS3 though.  Different demographics, different priorities, different mindsets, different financial commitments and about half the userbase.  Though honestly, I'd say the same about most of Wii's exclusive million sellers (Just Dance, Mario & Sonic 1-2, Raving Rabbids 1-2, Red Steel, MH3, etc).

You're trying to make excuses... Yet all of them use motion control. So as I said, there is no way out of it. Doesn't matter if they don't use it as much, they still use it. How do you know they all met or exceeded expectations? Did the developers of each game say so, or are you just making things up?

What excuses?  Heavy Rain didn't sell as well as COD4 either, what's that mean then exactly?

And in most cases for the games meeting/exceeding expectations, I'm going off (1) a sequel being greenlit or (2) the publisher saying so.  Generally neither of those things happens when a game doesn't meet a certain sales threshold.  And the only ones we can safely say flopped up there are probably MadWorld and Red Steel 2.  RE DSC didn't meet expectations either (it sold 600k, 800k was expected), but that's still a pretty decent amount and well ahead of any comparable games on other platforms.  None of the PS2 Gun Survivors even passed 500k by comparison.

So? (Honestly, I've forgotten what we're even talking about here, I'm on to the usual PS Move thread thing now where it's okay to troll Sony)

A sequel being greenlit doesn't give me proof. 
Publisher saying so... Fair enough. Links?
600k with 800k expected isn't meeting expectations. Despite selling well...

So. Basically you have no proof of them meeting or surpassing expectations?

Red Steel was expected to sell 500k (it cleared a million).  RE4 was expected to sell 450k (it did 1.7m).  REUC was expected to sell 600k (it did 1.2m).  You can find all of that on Ubi and Capcom's IR sites afaik.

For the rest we didn't ever get sales expectations (bar RS2, also 500k, did about half that), but we did get comments occasionally from devs on being happy with sales for some (The Conduit notably). I'm not doing the legwork though, you can google as well as I can (or sift through quarterly reports as well).

Fair enough on those games.

You're the one making the claims that they did so well... So surely it's up to you to provide the proof.



                            

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jarrod on 15 September 2010
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

And what does Sony's hypocrisy have to do with this thread?

Yet... Sony had a fitness game before Nintendo? Oh my god. Go start a thread quickly about it. Nintendo are copying scum! D: How DARE they! The great almighty Nintendo!?!!?! D:

Last place is the best place, when you get better 3rd party support than the iPhone <3

Uh... maybe you want to reread the thread if you really think that?  :/

Nintendo made racing games before Sony.  Also, party, action, shooting, fighting, role playing, strategy, simulation and games in almost every other genre.  Simply making a game in the same genre isn't "copying".  Wii Fit is about as much of a "copy" as Gran Turismo is.

"Better" is pretty subjective, but I'd agree, even if it's also "less".  I'd say the same for 360/Wii/DS/PSP/3DS though, so I'm not really seeing what sets PS3 apart?

The thread is about an advert. Nintendo fans are somehow upset about it because the guy says you dont need to just flick your wrist. Thus, it turned into a "OMG Sony are teh devilz" thread. Just like Nintendo fans do to pretty much every other PS Move thread...

Cool. Everyones a copy then. Awesome!

What sets the PS3 (and some of the other consoles) apart is the fans aren't crying because the iPhone gets games that the PS3 doesn't.

See above.  The problem isn't the advert, it's Sony entire PR.  And it's totally understandable, from both ends.

lol.  No, you have this failure to grasp what a copy actually is it seems.  Trying to devalue the definition won't change what Move or Sports Champions is... nice try though.

I dunno, I remember plenty of Sony central bitching over Chaos Rings. Though maybe it was the PSP guys.

Move has been in development since what, 2001? So prove to me that it's a copy. Please. If not we can assume you're just trolling even more, yes?

 




jneul on 15 September 2010
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

And what does Sony's hypocrisy have to do with this thread?

Yet... Sony had a fitness game before Nintendo? Oh my god. Go start a thread quickly about it. Nintendo are copying scum! D: How DARE they! The great almighty Nintendo!?!!?! D:

Last place is the best place, when you get better 3rd party support than the iPhone <3

Uh... maybe you want to reread the thread if you really think that?  :/

Nintendo made racing games before Sony.  Also, party, action, shooting, fighting, role playing, strategy, simulation and games in almost every other genre.  Simply making a game in the same genre isn't "copying".  Wii Fit is about as much of a "copy" as Gran Turismo is.

"Better" is pretty subjective, but I'd agree, even if it's also "less".  I'd say the same for 360/Wii/DS/PSP/3DS though, so I'm not really seeing what sets PS3 apart?

The thread is about an advert. Nintendo fans are somehow upset about it because the guy says you dont need to just flick your wrist. Thus, it turned into a "OMG Sony are teh devilz" thread. Just like Nintendo fans do to pretty much every other PS Move thread...

Cool. Everyones a copy then. Awesome!

What sets the PS3 (and some of the other consoles) apart is the fans aren't crying because the iPhone gets games that the PS3 doesn't.

See above.  The problem isn't the advert, it's Sony entire PR.  And it's totally understandable, from both ends.

lol.  No, you have this failure to grasp what a copy actually is it seems.  Trying to devalue the definition won't change what Move or Sports Champions is... nice try though.

I dunno, I remember plenty of Sony central bitching over Chaos Rings. Though maybe it was the PSP guys.

Move has been in development since what, 2001? So prove to me that it's a copy. Please. If not we can assume you're just trolling even more, yes?

 



I can't even believe this thread has not even been locked yet, just because the final design looks familiar does not mean the proto-types from 2001 of move never existed, ignorance is bliss



it's the future of handheld

PS VITA = LIFE

The official Vita thread http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=130023&page=1

jarrod on 15 September 2010
jneul said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

And what does Sony's hypocrisy have to do with this thread?

Yet... Sony had a fitness game before Nintendo? Oh my god. Go start a thread quickly about it. Nintendo are copying scum! D: How DARE they! The great almighty Nintendo!?!!?! D:

Last place is the best place, when you get better 3rd party support than the iPhone <3

Uh... maybe you want to reread the thread if you really think that?  :/

Nintendo made racing games before Sony.  Also, party, action, shooting, fighting, role playing, strategy, simulation and games in almost every other genre.  Simply making a game in the same genre isn't "copying".  Wii Fit is about as much of a "copy" as Gran Turismo is.

"Better" is pretty subjective, but I'd agree, even if it's also "less".  I'd say the same for 360/Wii/DS/PSP/3DS though, so I'm not really seeing what sets PS3 apart?

The thread is about an advert. Nintendo fans are somehow upset about it because the guy says you dont need to just flick your wrist. Thus, it turned into a "OMG Sony are teh devilz" thread. Just like Nintendo fans do to pretty much every other PS Move thread...

Cool. Everyones a copy then. Awesome!

What sets the PS3 (and some of the other consoles) apart is the fans aren't crying because the iPhone gets games that the PS3 doesn't.

See above.  The problem isn't the advert, it's Sony entire PR.  And it's totally understandable, from both ends.

lol.  No, you have this failure to grasp what a copy actually is it seems.  Trying to devalue the definition won't change what Move or Sports Champions is... nice try though.

I dunno, I remember plenty of Sony central bitching over Chaos Rings. Though maybe it was the PSP guys.

Move has been in development since what, 2001? So prove to me that it's a copy. Please. If not we can assume you're just trolling even more, yes?

 



I can't even believe this thread has not even been locked yet, just because the final design looks familiar does not mean the proto-types from 2001 of move never existed, ignorance is bliss

The 2001 "prototype" had no accelerometers and gyros afaik, or buttons even.  It was literally an EyeToy with a stick.



jneul on 15 September 2010
jarrod said:
jneul said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

And what does Sony's hypocrisy have to do with this thread?

Yet... Sony had a fitness game before Nintendo? Oh my god. Go start a thread quickly about it. Nintendo are copying scum! D: How DARE they! The great almighty Nintendo!?!!?! D:

Last place is the best place, when you get better 3rd party support than the iPhone <3

Uh... maybe you want to reread the thread if you really think that?  :/

Nintendo made racing games before Sony.  Also, party, action, shooting, fighting, role playing, strategy, simulation and games in almost every other genre.  Simply making a game in the same genre isn't "copying".  Wii Fit is about as much of a "copy" as Gran Turismo is.

"Better" is pretty subjective, but I'd agree, even if it's also "less".  I'd say the same for 360/Wii/DS/PSP/3DS though, so I'm not really seeing what sets PS3 apart?

The thread is about an advert. Nintendo fans are somehow upset about it because the guy says you dont need to just flick your wrist. Thus, it turned into a "OMG Sony are teh devilz" thread. Just like Nintendo fans do to pretty much every other PS Move thread...

Cool. Everyones a copy then. Awesome!

What sets the PS3 (and some of the other consoles) apart is the fans aren't crying because the iPhone gets games that the PS3 doesn't.

See above.  The problem isn't the advert, it's Sony entire PR.  And it's totally understandable, from both ends.

lol.  No, you have this failure to grasp what a copy actually is it seems.  Trying to devalue the definition won't change what Move or Sports Champions is... nice try though.

I dunno, I remember plenty of Sony central bitching over Chaos Rings. Though maybe it was the PSP guys.

Move has been in development since what, 2001? So prove to me that it's a copy. Please. If not we can assume you're just trolling even more, yes?

 



I can't even believe this thread has not even been locked yet, just because the final design looks familiar does not mean the proto-types from 2001 of move never existed, ignorance is bliss

The 2001 "prototype" had no accelerometers and gyros afaik, or buttons even.  It was literally an EyeToy with a stick.

i guess you know jack all about "prototyping" then, the idea is to start of with something really simple to test out an idea you have on a basic level, and to make it it better with each prototype you make, until you end up getting your final product (i.e move), it's easier this way as you can always see much easier as what are good/bad things are to each prototype and you can continue to make it better...



it's the future of handheld

PS VITA = LIFE

The official Vita thread http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=130023&page=1

jarrod on 15 September 2010
jneul said:
jarrod said:
jneul said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

And what does Sony's hypocrisy have to do with this thread?

Yet... Sony had a fitness game before Nintendo? Oh my god. Go start a thread quickly about it. Nintendo are copying scum! D: How DARE they! The great almighty Nintendo!?!!?! D:

Last place is the best place, when you get better 3rd party support than the iPhone <3

Uh... maybe you want to reread the thread if you really think that?  :/

Nintendo made racing games before Sony.  Also, party, action, shooting, fighting, role playing, strategy, simulation and games in almost every other genre.  Simply making a game in the same genre isn't "copying".  Wii Fit is about as much of a "copy" as Gran Turismo is.

"Better" is pretty subjective, but I'd agree, even if it's also "less".  I'd say the same for 360/Wii/DS/PSP/3DS though, so I'm not really seeing what sets PS3 apart?

The thread is about an advert. Nintendo fans are somehow upset about it because the guy says you dont need to just flick your wrist. Thus, it turned into a "OMG Sony are teh devilz" thread. Just like Nintendo fans do to pretty much every other PS Move thread...

Cool. Everyones a copy then. Awesome!

What sets the PS3 (and some of the other consoles) apart is the fans aren't crying because the iPhone gets games that the PS3 doesn't.

See above.  The problem isn't the advert, it's Sony entire PR.  And it's totally understandable, from both ends.

lol.  No, you have this failure to grasp what a copy actually is it seems.  Trying to devalue the definition won't change what Move or Sports Champions is... nice try though.

I dunno, I remember plenty of Sony central bitching over Chaos Rings. Though maybe it was the PSP guys.

Move has been in development since what, 2001? So prove to me that it's a copy. Please. If not we can assume you're just trolling even more, yes?

 



I can't even believe this thread has not even been locked yet, just because the final design looks familiar does not mean the proto-types from 2001 of move never existed, ignorance is bliss

The 2001 "prototype" had no accelerometers and gyros afaik, or buttons even.  It was literally an EyeToy with a stick.

i guess you know jack all about "prototyping" then, the idea is to start of with something really simple to test out an idea you have on a basic level, and to make it it better with each prototype you make, until you end up getting your final product (i.e move), it's easier this way as you can always see much easier as what are good/bad things are to each prototype and you can continue to make it better...

So when exactly did the glostick add motion sensors and buttons?  Ignorance is bliss indeed...