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Forums - General - Church plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11

Coca-Cola on 10 September 2010
sapphi_snake said:

@Coca-Cola

It's pretty good for Christian history if you have to go back to the Crusades to condemn us.  Not bad at all.  There has been some in-house fighting though but still that's long long time ago.

Actually the more recent would be the forced conversion of native Americans (from both North adn South America). If it weren't for secularism we'd have a Christian Taliban on our hands for sure. The West started beeing a good place to live when religion started losing it's power.

It's true that the biggest problem with Islam is place like Afghnistan where most terrorists are not educated and ride short camels.  (I heard this on the radio today)

You're denying the fact that poverty and lack of access to education and information makes people easily manipulable, thus easy target for terrorists to recruit? Also are you denying the fact that ultra-nationalism and religious fundamentalism are perfect mindsets to create terrorists? Why isn't Turkey even 20% as bad as Afghanistan in regards to terrorism?

I would disagree that secularism made the west a good place.

I think Christianity made the West a great place. 

Christian Taliban?  haha.  I'm sure you'd like for something like that but Christianity has evolved very well in the West -most productive and free.

I don't deny that lack of education and poverty is a huge problem.  but a lot of these terrorists are well educated and rich - can't deny that. 

I hope you'll be against closing down the churches or limiting their freedom of faith and worship (like Turkey) or communism of the past. 





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sapphi_snake on 10 September 2010
WessleWoggle said:
sapphi_snake said:
WessleWoggle said:
sapphi_snake said:
WessleWoggle said:

They plan to burn the quran?

This is an outrage! I am outraged!

Why? I thought you were the Buddha? Aren't your followers fighting with Muslims in some Asian country?

What? My followers are out spreading world peace and working on the kingdom of samayim in Antarctica, a giant heated bubble that will be heaven on earth, and will be free of the laws that hold modern society back. The followers of the past Buddhas may be fighting wars, I don't know, but my followers are doing much more important things. 

Lolz, what does one have to do to get into that kingdom once it's finished? And what are these laws "that hold modern society back"?

You have to pledge your eternal loyalty and give all your money to the project. Don't worry, your money will be returned to you with a palace and all the comforts you could imagine.  You know what laws hold modern society back, drug laws, drugs like amphetamines boost productivity. Then there's cloning laws, which have stopped us from creating perfect human specimens and also have stopped us from created human-animal hybrids.

Lol, You should be on Oprah and preach your views dude!



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake on 10 September 2010

@Coca-Cola

I would disagree that secularism made the west a good place.

I think Christianity made the West a great place.

You're free to hold that opinion, but it's contrary to reality.

Christian Taliban?  haha.  I'm sure you'd like for something like that but Christianity has evolved very well in the West -most productive and free.

Yes, of course I'd like that. You can never have too many suicide bombers, you know?

I don't deny that lack of education and poverty is a huge problem.  but a lot of these terrorists are well educated and rich - can't deny that.

If you're talking about the leaders that may be true. But it's the widesprea poverty and ignorance that permits them to manipulate and recruit common people over there. Why do you think Christianity no longer controls people like that in the West?

I hope you'll be against closing down the churches or limiting their freedom of faith and worship (like Turkey) or communism of the past.

I am against such practices. I don't view Christianity as deserving any more attention than any other religion, so why would I want churches to be closed down, when I don't want mosques/synagogues to be closed down? And you should add Christians (before the Church and state became separate and they could no longer have their way)  to your list of people who persecute others for thier religious beliefs.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

NKAJ on 10 September 2010

wow,this issue has really brought out some of the extremists that are on this site...

I mean ,do people seriously think that the crusades were actually morally right and a good thing to do? Yes many innocent Christians were killed,and then guess what the wonderful crusaders did,they then went and killed lots of innocent Muslims.

It is insensitive to put the mosque where it is being proposed but people are taking it way too far.People seem to forget that Christianity has hardly had a saintly past.



"They will know heghan belongs to the helghast"

"England expects that everyman will do his duty"

"we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender"

 

d21lewis on 10 September 2010

Well, I got a tweet yesterday saying that they no longer plan to burn the Quran (see--I told you guys that Twitter was worth having!).  I think they made the right choice.



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TheRealMafoo on 10 September 2010
d21lewis said:

Well, I got a tweet yesterday saying that they no longer plan to burn the Quran (see--I told you guys that Twitter was worth having!).  I think they made the right choice.


Have you gotten a tweet yet telling you he still might. He has said he was lied to when he made that statement. He was told the Mosque near 911 was going to be moved, and that seems to not be true.

The more I hear about this, the more I want to do my own demonstration.

I want to find 5 of every holly book. The Quran, Bible, Old testament, Bhagawat Geeta, the Tripitaka, and anything else I can think of.

I want to then burn them all, and then see who gets pissed off and wants to kill me, and my country.

Let's really see of all religions are created equal.



badgenome on 10 September 2010
TheRealMafoo said:
d21lewis said:

Well, I got a tweet yesterday saying that they no longer plan to burn the Quran (see--I told you guys that Twitter was worth having!).  I think they made the right choice.


Have you gotten a tweet yet telling you he still might. He has said he was lied to when he made that statement. He was told the Mosque near 911 was going to be moved, and that seems to not be true.

The more I hear about this, the more I want to do my own demonstration.

I want to find 5 of every holly book. The Quran, Bible, Old testament, Bhagawat Geeta, the Tripitaka, and anything else I can think of.

I want to then burn them all, and then see who gets pissed off and wants to kill me, and my country.

Let's really see of all religions are created equal.

Throw in a PSPGo, and leo-j will get you before Islamic Rage Boy even puts on his pants.



sad.man.loves.vgc on 10 September 2010
TheRealMafoo said:
d21lewis said:

Well, I got a tweet yesterday saying that they no longer plan to burn the Quran (see--I told you guys that Twitter was worth having!).  I think they made the right choice.


Have you gotten a tweet yet telling you he still might. He has said he was lied to when he made that statement. He was told the Mosque near 911 was going to be moved, and that seems to not be true.

The more I hear about this, the more I want to do my own demonstration.

I want to find 5 of every holly book. The Quran, Bible, Old testament, Bhagawat Geeta, the Tripitaka, and anything else I can think of.

I want to then burn them all, and then see who gets pissed off and wants to kill me, and my country.

Let's really see of all religions are created equal.

dude, I am sure there was a time for every religion when burning its book made its people want to kill you, Islamic countries are going through dark agaes , whatever their religion was they would be killing you , it's NOT just about religion and btw I'd be so happy to literally fight for you , freaked out yet?



Smidlee on 10 September 2010
NKAJ said:

wow,this issue has really brought out some of the extremists that are on this site...

I mean ,do people seriously think that the crusades were actually morally right and a good thing to do? Yes many innocent Christians were killed,and then guess what the wonderful crusaders did,they then went and killed lots of innocent Muslims.

It is insensitive to put the mosque where it is being proposed but people are taking it way too far.People seem to forget that Christianity has hardly had a saintly past.

Asking if Crucades were morally right is like asking was it morally right for America to drop nukes on Japan during WW2. Those bombs (and factory bombings) killed a lot of "innocent" people as well. This is why it's called War. I wonder if Americans has what it takes to actually win a war anymore. I think our enemy might. There is a time for war and there is a time for peace.

 



Kasz216 on 10 September 2010
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:
sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

14% of NY and 5% of the country doesn't count as  a "lot of people" to you?


Veterans don't HAVE to protest that kind of stuff because nobody is inconsiderate enough to put that kind of stuff next to VA hospitals and clubs.

Regardless, your arguements have been full of two much ignorance to further debate with you.   You mentioned homophobia... but in general your arguements about PTSD have had about the same intellectual knowledge as people who argue homosexuality is a choice.

 

Not enough to matter.

But whatever... I know very well what PTSD is, I just don't find it a relevant or compelling argument for your stance.


If you really do know what PTSD is (i'm guessing not) and really think moving a building 3 blocks is a big deal when it would save hundreds of thousands if not millions of people uneeded anguish.

I couldn't think any less of you without a dircet action that specifically harmed someone.

I do actuyally know what PTSD is. I find your arguments to be pretty weak.

First of all those numbers you gave are insignificant (not large enough to matter in the long run, at least in my opinion).

Second of all the numbers you posted are outdated. Those numbers represent the situation imediatelly after the attack. Most people got over their PTSD in the first 6 months after the attack (you can be sure that after almost 9 years most have probably gotten over their PTSD).

http://ptsd.about.com/od/causesanddevelopment/a/Sept11_PTSD.htm

Third of all, you have no proof that the mosque would be a trigger. The attacks involved planes crashing into buildings, so it would be more logical for a plane to be a trigger for those people, rather than a mosque.

Forth, as someone else pointed out, why would a mosque on ground 0 be a trigger for one of those people, and not a mosque in any other location? Logically those people (if mosques and Islamic symbols really would be triggers for them) would be Islamophobes (in the propper sense of the word, as in "afraid of muslims"), so they'd experience anxiety whenever they'd  see a mosque/islmaic symbol anywhere. Should muslims hide, or leave the US altogether as to not upset these people?

Of course you neglect these facts because they show how faulty your argument is. And I'm bothered by the personal attacks. You're driven by your emotions and are not analysing this situation critically.

Er... no.  They aren't person facts... there basic truths.

1) Your just.. wrong here.

2) That dosen't actually give a rate of how many people recovers.  Just going with "many" which could be dozens for all you know.   It'd still be a very large number in the millions regardless.  Look at all the people who still have PTSD from wars. 

3) Once again shows a complete lack of knowledge of triggers.   Triggers aren't IMMEDIATELY developed the second it happens.  They develop over time, furthermore a lot of people with PTSD .   It's pure ignorance.

4)  It WOULD be mosques everwhere.  Just like Mcdonalds everywhere would be triggers.  HOWEVER a mosque at the site would be a STRONGER trigger.  Furthermore it's reasonable to move a mosque off of a place where it would be a strong trigger where people come to grive rather then moving them all.  It's basic civil planning.  To be mad at people buildign mosques anywhere would be stupid even though it will cause some people trouble.  You do need mosques.

To build a mosque at the epicenter of where people with issues gather... how do you not get that it's a very stupid and insensitive idea?  Heck, lets say some Christian Extremists burn down this center.

Then they want to build a 13 story church 2 blocks away within plain view of the many many people that go there to pray for the people who were killed and to reconsile the even with there lives.

I dunno.  That seems pointlessly cruel to me.  The church builders aren't the same people, still a dickish move to be sure.  Hey sorry your center got burned down, but hey drink in our badass 13 foot church though!  Right here, were you go to grieve!   Or at least that's what it would feel like to the people who go there.

It's all a matter of tact.